My first "Brand Name" scope. Still not sure.

[joelansing]

I picked up a very nice Remington 7400 Walnut 30.06 at a pawn shop last Saturday for $400. It had a junk 4X scope on it with all screws not even finger tight. I think the pawn shop put it on to make it look better LOL. I got it home and saw I already had a 3-9 Leapers Bug Buster NIB, and an old decent Tasco World Class 3-9 40. But I wanted something better. So I ordered another http://www.amazon.com/UTG-3-12X44-Mil-dot-Colors-EZ-TAP/dp/B004CVER4I which is what I have on another rifle. They are nice. 3-12 x 44. 36 color lit up reticle. Parallax adjust down to 15 feet. It came in. It was HEAVY, and lots of bells and whistles. But I'd never had a good brand name scope. I shelved it NIB. Today I ran out and bought a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 BDC for $137.00 It is clear! Not sure if it's any more clear than the Leapers SWAT though. The BDC reticle and the Nikon Spot On http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Hunting-SpotOn/index.page tool on their web site is awesome though.

All in all I'm glad I got it. My reasons aren't that great though. My brother has about 40 rifles, all with cheap scopes. I got my first big brand name scope! It is clear and bright! When my kids are selling my estate someday the scope will be a selling point :). The Spot On web site and the BDC points let me print off a small thing that shows sighted in at 50 yards using 30.06 150 grain Core-Lok my 4 BDC spots are at: 213, 309, 401, 467, and the bottom post is 566 yards. I can tape it to the stock. Not too shabby. But my normal deer range is 20 yards or less. I might keep using my 50 cal CVA :)

Adjustable Parallax on the UTG/Leapers is a "feature". You can dial it down to 15' and it's clear at 12 X. But why? You need to set it for 20 yards, 50 yards, 150 yards or all your stuff is blurry. The Nikon is crystal clear from 10 yards on out with no parallax adjustment needed. I don't want a Parallax adjustment..LOL

Bang for the buck it's a toss up. 3-12 and fancy useless features vs just an awesome normal scope with good BDC ranging. Cool tech I don't need Leapers/UTG wins. Less features but great optics Nikon wins. The Nikon BDC with their Spot On web site calculator is pretty awesome. Leapers/UTG is Michigan based but China made. My Nikon was made in Philippines which isn't a bad thing.

- Joe

[Sticks]

I'm glad you are happy with it. Go out, use it, and welcome the results be it target shooting or hunting, or a combination of both.

[westcliffe01]

You need the parallax adjustment if you really want to shoot good groups at a variety of ranges. Without it, the reticle is coplanar with the image at only 1 distance and it might not be 100 yards. I bought a 3-15x Minnox scope (over $500) that had no parallax adjustment and it absolutely sucked at 100 yards. Best group was 2" on a rifle that was running a 1/2" group with a much cheaper Nikon Monarch scope.

UTG / Leapers as well as several other brands are just cheap chinese crap. I personally have been satisfied with my Nikon Monarch 2 scopes, but they did some pretty stupid things with the turrets on the Monarch 3's so I will not buy them again. So today besides 2 rifles that carry the Monarchs, everything else has a Vortex. a 4-16x50 FFP, a 6-24x50 FFP and a new 4-16x44 Viper HS-T with the SFP reticle.

One of the fundamental reasons a good scope costs money, besides the glass is the cost of repeatable turrets. Complex, backlash free mechanical assemblies like that are simply not possible below $300 and I have proven that several times. The aforementioned Monarchs are the cheapest scopes I found where the turrets actually worked.

[DP425]

You need the parallax adjustment if you really want to shoot good groups at a variety of ranges. Without it, the reticle is coplanar with the image at only 1 distance and it might not be 100 yards. I bought a 3-15x Minnox scope (over $500) that had no parallax adjustment and it absolutely sucked at 100 yards. Best group was 2" on a rifle that was running a 1/2" group with a much cheaper Nikon Monarch scope.

UTG / Leapers as well as several other brands are just cheap chinese crap. I personally have been satisfied with my Nikon Monarch 2 scopes, but they did some pretty stupid things with the turrets on the Monarch 3's so I will not buy them again. So today besides 2 rifles that carry the Monarchs, everything else has a Vortex. a 4-16x50 FFP, a 6-24x50 FFP and a new 4-16x44 Viper HS-T with the SFP reticle.

One of the fundamental reasons a good scope costs money, besides the glass is the cost of repeatable turrets. Complex, backlash free mechanical assemblies like that are simply not possible below $300 and I have proven that several times. The aforementioned Monarchs are the cheapest scopes I found where the turrets actually worked.

This. When it comes to glass, don't skimp. I only have one rifle right now that does not have an optic on it that costs more than the base rifle... and that is only because I don't have a scope on my Larue OBR right now.

To the uninitiated, such costly optics ($1000-$4000) sounds like insanity... and that isn't necessary for most rifle owners... But, once you use quality glass, you'll never go back to the cheap crap. Even Nikon and Leupold have what I would consider cheap glass; but that is relative to what I use. In the grand scheme of things, a $140 prostaff with standard, capped turrets and BDC reticle will have better clarity, light transmission, color rendition, eye relief and eye box, field of view, plane of view and reliability than an equally priced leapers/UTG, and even some optics that are twice the cost. It comes down to options per price-point. Options cost money; the more you add in a given price point, the lower the over-all quality will go. Your UTG scope might have had every color of the rainbow for illumination, but it bloomed like crazy. Had target turrets, but they were mushy, had no audible and barely tactile clicks, failed to return to zero reliably, had an inaccurate mil-dot reticle and inaccurate click value.

Given the option of the "loaded" UTG or the 3-9 Prostaff to take out on a live mission, in a hidesite for five days, in some third world hell hole... I'd take the prostaff 20 out of 10 times.

[sbowhuntr]

No matter how expensive or how cheap the rifle, NEVER skimp on good optics...:tsk: They are worth every penny.. El' cheapo optics will eventually fail in some way.. That Nikon will serve you well..

[Shyster]

When I inherited my father's rifles they were set up as typical Michigan deer rifles, i.e. nice guns with crap optics. Since I have no intention to ever use any other guns for deer hunting, I have been slowly upgrading optics.

At ohmygodoclock tomorrow morning I will be out in my blind with Dad's pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .270 Winchester, the crappy Weaver K4 replaced with a nice Trijicon 3x9 :thumbup:

[joelansing]

Ok guys. I know good optics are good. But I'm not a rich man. I could barely afford the $400 for the used Remington 7400 I just bought at the pawn shop. Actually, I charged half of it. I've killed maybe 40? deer over the years, and none of them with "GOOD" optics. Tasco, Bushnell, Leapers, and a lot with NcStar :) None, or maybe 1 deer got away in all that time. I'm going into battle against deer at like 20-30 yards, and they don't shoot back :) Sometimes it's fine to buy optics that cost 1/4 what your weapon costs. I'm sure I'd blast deer just fine at 30 yards with a crap Walmart Center Point $39 scope and that's 1/10th what my $400 rifle costs.

If you can afford it being an optics snob is fine. But don't put down people that buy what fits their needs and works well for them, ok? I wish I could have nice optics on all my rifles, but using that money to take my 7 and 8 year olds to Ringling Brothers circus at The Palace tomorrow is more important to me. No deer will escape my crap optics at 30 yards, and I get to be a good father instead of buying a fancy scope. I'm jealous of you guys with the good stuff. The Nikon Prostaff is my first attempt at good stuff. But at 30 yards on a standing still deer I might buy more Leapers...LOL :) Anyways. Have a good season!

And Shyster: Much respect for your legal observations on the forum!

- Joe

[wsr]

Ok guys. I know good optics are good. But I'm not a rich man. I could barely afford the $400 for the used Remington 7400 I just bought at the pawn shop. Actually, I charged half of it. I've killed maybe 40? deer over the years, and none of them with "GOOD" optics. Tasco, Bushnell, Leapers, and a lot with NcStar :) None, or maybe 1 deer got away in all that time. I'm going into battle against deer at like 20-30 yards, and they don't shoot back :) Sometimes it's fine to buy optics that cost 1/4 what your weapon costs. I'm sure I'd blast deer just fine at 30 yards with a crap Walmart Center Point $39 scope and that's 1/10th what my $400 rifle costs.

If you can afford it being an optics snob is fine. But don't put down people that buy what fits their needs and works well for them, ok? I wish I could have nice optics on all my rifles, but using that money to take my 7 and 8 year olds to Ringling Brothers circus at The Palace tomorrow is more important to me. No deer will escape my crap optics at 30 yards, and I get to be a good father instead of buying a fancy scope. I'm jealous of you guys with the good stuff. The Nikon Prostaff is my first attempt at good stuff. But at 30 yards on a standing still deer I might buy more Leapers...LOL :) Anyways. Have a good season!

And Shyster: Much respect for your legal observations on the forum!

- Joe

If all you are shooting is 20 or 30 yards I wouldn't waste money on crap optics I would learn how to shoot iron sights

[Sticks]

Ok guys. I know good optics are good. But I'm not a rich man. I could barely afford the $400 for the used Remington 7400 I just bought at the pawn shop. Actually, I charged half of it. I've killed maybe 40? deer over the years, and none of them with "GOOD" optics. Tasco, Bushnell, Leapers, and a lot with NcStar :) None, or maybe 1 deer got away in all that time. I'm going into battle against deer at like 20-30 yards, and they don't shoot back :) Sometimes it's fine to buy optics that cost 1/4 what your weapon costs. I'm sure I'd blast deer just fine at 30 yards with a crap Walmart Center Point $39 scope and that's 1/10th what my $400 rifle costs.

If you can afford it being an optics snob is fine. But don't put down people that buy what fits their needs and works well for them, ok? I wish I could have nice optics on all my rifles, but using that money to take my 7 and 8 year olds to Ringling Brothers circus at The Palace tomorrow is more important to me. No deer will escape my crap optics at 30 yards, and I get to be a good father instead of buying a fancy scope. I'm jealous of you guys with the good stuff. The Nikon Prostaff is my first attempt at good stuff. But at 30 yards on a standing still deer I might buy more Leapers...LOL :) Anyways. Have a good season!

And Shyster: Much respect for your legal observations on the forum!

- Joe

I totally agree with you.

I have a cheap Truglo that I used on my first hog gun that has gone through banging around in back of the lease truck, swamp buggy's, banged on trees, limbs, branches, gone ground crawling and banging through the thickest hammocks, and it always held zero. Never ever had a problem with it. It now sits on an AR pistol in the house. Yes, if the money is there, get better optics, but don't mortgage the house again just because someone on the internet wants you to spend big bucks to be with the in crowd.

[JDG]

Focus and parallax are two different animals... Is a parallax adjustment needed on a hunting rifle? Absolutely not! As mentioned, its for shooting tiny groups off of a bench. If you line up perfectly behind your rifle, you can minimize the parallax error anyways. Glad your happy with your new shooter and scope!

[Danco411]

Id rather dhoot with Irons than have a UTG on my rifle. There are much better optiond on a budget. Look at the new Bushnell AR optics. Great glass and usable reticles. They make a 1-4, 2-7, 3-9 and a 4-12. For under $200 they will do you right and not have to worry about the seals breaking and fogging up which can and will happen on aa airdoft UTG.

[Shyster]

For under 50 yards I would be more inclined to go with a red dot.

[DP425]

Ok guys. I know good optics are good. But I'm not a rich man. I could barely afford the $400 for the used Remington 7400 I just bought at the pawn shop. Actually, I charged half of it. I've killed maybe 40? deer over the years, and none of them with "GOOD" optics. Tasco, Bushnell, Leapers, and a lot with NcStar :) None, or maybe 1 deer got away in all that time. I'm going into battle against deer at like 20-30 yards, and they don't shoot back :) Sometimes it's fine to buy optics that cost 1/4 what your weapon costs. I'm sure I'd blast deer just fine at 30 yards with a crap Walmart Center Point $39 scope and that's 1/10th what my $400 rifle costs.

If you can afford it being an optics snob is fine. But don't put down people that buy what fits their needs and works well for them, ok? I wish I could have nice optics on all my rifles, but using that money to take my 7 and 8 year olds to Ringling Brothers circus at The Palace tomorrow is more important to me. No deer will escape my crap optics at 30 yards, and I get to be a good father instead of buying a fancy scope. I'm jealous of you guys with the good stuff. The Nikon Prostaff is my first attempt at good stuff. But at 30 yards on a standing still deer I might buy more Leapers...LOL :) Anyways. Have a good season!

And Shyster: Much respect for your legal observations on the forum!

- Joe

As someone else said; 20-30 yards, why waste money on optics at all? I would actually consider a scope to be a detriment at 20-30 yards. Certainly not a benefit. Red dot, perhaps, but even then; it's a deer rifle inside of 50 yards. No need for any sort of optics at all within that range. Anyone with even marginal understanding and ability to apply the fundamentals of marksmanship should be able to hit inside of a 5" circle, every time, with irons, at 20-30 yards, with just about anything that has a barrel and sends a projectile via the gas expansion of a burned substance.

That said, you were speaking to how you are glad you finally got a brand name, quality scope; I, as have others, have responded in kind, that quality optics are the way to go. It seems you might have taken offense to us agreeing with you. If you wanted people to reassure you that cheap, Chinese junk optics are sufficient, the way you started this thread did not indicate as such.

The funny thing is, you lumped bushnell in with leapers, NcStar and Tasco. Granted, Bushnell of yesteryear left a bit to be desired, and I don't have much experience with their current low end optics... However, their elite tactical optics are over-represented on the precision tactical competition circuit. This line goes up to $1900 for the XRS. Bushnell is not really in the same classification as Leapers, NcStar and Tasco.


Anyway, to reiterate one more time, if your shots are 20-30 yards, and money is that tight, perhaps you should put that optic money to that trip to Ringling Brothers and stick with a cheap rifle with iron sights. You'll kill just as many deer.

[bolonytony24]

you do seem to get what you pay for with optics . clear glass is nice but not essential . I dropped a deer last year at near 300 yards with Remington 710 in 30-06 with the bushnell 3-9x30 that came with the combo for $350 .
Nikkon does make nice product and I am sure you will be happy with the bdc .

[JohnS624]

I wish I could have nice optics on all my rifles,
- JoeMaybe you have too many rifles. I've always believed in quality over quantity.