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View Full Version : HB 4772-4778 CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY - Eliminate mandatory pistol registration



zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 10:08 AM
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4778


Strikes some text and adds the following:


(8 ) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO AN INDIVIDUAL WHO CARRIES,

POSSESSES, OR TRANSPORTS A PISTOL IF ALL OF THE FOLLOWING

CONDITIONS ARE MET:

(A) THE INDIVIDUAL IS NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING

A PISTOL.

(B) THE INDIVIDUAL IS AT LEAST 21 YEARS OF AGE.

As I read it, if you're 21+ you no longer have to register your guns or get a permit to purchase anymore. 18+ still need to do so until age 21.

thamm
07-15-2015, 10:35 AM
I might be missing something, but does this also mean that non-residents no longer need a cpl to transport or possess a handgun?

zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 10:39 AM
I might be missing something, but does this also mean that non-residents no longer need a cpl to transport or possess a handgun?

That would be correct, based on my reading. Anyone over age 21 who is not otherwise prohibited would be allowed to legally carry.

thamm
07-15-2015, 10:45 AM
It's a step in the right direction. However, I don't understand the logic of requiring an LTP for 18-20 yr olds. Either they're adults or not.

zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 10:54 AM
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4772

HB 4772 repeals basically everything in the criminal code regarding carry.

This is the constitutional carry we've been looking for.

Scandiacus
07-15-2015, 11:09 AM
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4772

HB 4772 repeals basically everything in the criminal code regarding carry.

This is the constitutional carry we've been looking for.

If I'm reading it correctly, 4772 only does so in regard to school zones. Concealed carry of a firearm without a CPL would still be a felony. This package of bills does good stuff, but it is not a constitutional carry bill as we understand constitutional carry.

Divegeek
07-15-2015, 11:13 AM
Does this keep the permit as an option so that we can carry in other states for reciprocity purposes?

Scandiacus
07-15-2015, 11:14 AM
Never mind, forget what I just said! I didn't notice the text repealing the various sections. Sorry, I should've read more carefully before posting. :whistle:

Leader
07-15-2015, 11:25 AM
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2015-HB-4772

HB 4772 repeals basically everything in the criminal code regarding carry.

This is the constitutional carry we've been looking for.

Then it has NO chance of passing or being signed.

Tallbear
07-15-2015, 11:28 AM
HB 4772 of 2015 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2015-HB-4772)
Weapons; firearms; certain provisions regarding weapons; repeal. Amends sec. 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.237a) & repeals secs. 223, 227, 227a, 227c, 227d, 228, 231, 231a, 232a & 234d of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.223 et seq.).
Last Action: 7/14/2015 referred to Committee on Judiciary

Tallbear
07-15-2015, 11:30 AM
HB 4773 of 2015 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2015-HB-4773)
Weapons; firearms; 1927 PA 372; update references. Amends secs. 5b, 12 & 15 of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425b et seq.).
Last Action: 7/14/2015 referred to Committee on Judiciary

Scandiacus
07-15-2015, 11:31 AM
Then it has NO chance of passing or being signed.

I'm sure Snyder wouldn't sign it. If enough people rally around it, though, would there be a chance of overriding a veto?

Tallbear
07-15-2015, 11:33 AM
HB 4774 of 2015 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2015-HB-4774)
Weapons; firearms; natural resources and environmental protection act; update references. Amends sec. 43510 of 1994 PA 451 (MCL 324.43510).
Last Action: 7/14/2015 referred to Committee on Judiciary

zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 04:07 PM
Evening bump.

Still reading over each individual piece. I haven't found a problem with it yet.

backhandman
07-15-2015, 04:53 PM
who do we start contacting to get our voices heard.

Divegeek
07-15-2015, 05:39 PM
who do we start contacting to get our voices heard.
your rep in the house

Leader
07-15-2015, 05:54 PM
Evening bump.

Still reading over each individual piece. I haven't found a problem with it yet.

Damn Now I'm gonna have to really read it.
I usually agree with you but not always on legislation.

zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 06:12 PM
I've now read it all. The first and the last bills in the list are the only ones of real substance. The remainder merely remove language that references parts of the law that this package of bills repeals.

So essentially 4772 repeals:

750.223 (requires dealers to issue pistol registration forms or fill out permits to purchase)
750.227 (concealed weapons)
750.227a (unlawful possession of pistols by CPL holders - this law is already defunct since 2001 "shall issue")
750.227c (Transporting/possession of loaded firearm in mechanical vehicle)
750.227d (transporting /possession in land vehicle)
750.228 (Michigan pistol grandfathering law that allows you to elect to have your gun no longer considered a pistol)
750.231 (carveouts for the above laws)
750.231a (more carveouts for CCW)
750.232a (Purchasing without a purchase permit)
750.234d (Pistol Free Zones)

The last one changes purchase permits and registration to OPTIONAL for all people 21 and up.

This leaves a few laws in place: Tasers still require a CPL and must be carried concealed. Purchase permits are still required if you are under age 21.

And the big issue with this package, IMO: CPL Pistol Free Zones still exist (so if you get your CPL you are beholden to these Pistol-Free Zones, but if you don't get one, you aren't). I expect this to be fixed in committee before it gets voted on as a whole.

Jared1981
07-15-2015, 06:54 PM
I don't think this would ever get voted on in committee. The RINO establishment would never allow it. It's still worth pushing for it to get people on the record.

Leader
07-15-2015, 07:35 PM
I've now read it all. The first and the last bills in the list are the only ones of real substance. The remainder merely remove language that references parts of the law that this package of bills repeals.

So essentially 4772 repeals:

750.223 (requires dealers to issue pistol registration forms or fill out permits to purchase)
750.227 (concealed weapons)
750.227a (unlawful possession of pistols by CPL holders - this law is already defunct since 2001 "shall issue")
750.227c (Transporting/possession of loaded firearm in mechanical vehicle)
750.227d (transporting /possession in land vehicle)
750.228 (Michigan pistol grandfathering law that allows you to elect to have your gun no longer considered a pistol)
750.231 (carveouts for the above laws)
750.231a (more carveouts for CCW)
750.232a (Purchasing without a purchase permit)
750.234d (Pistol Free Zones)

The last one changes purchase permits and registration to OPTIONAL for all people 21 and up.

This leaves a few laws in place: Tasers still require a CPL and must be carried concealed. Purchase permits are still required if you are under age 21.

And the big issue with this package, IMO: CPL Pistol Free Zones still exist (so if you get your CPL you are beholden to these Pistol-Free Zones, but if you don't get one, you aren't). I expect this to be fixed in committee before it gets voted on as a whole.

This is a joke...right?

Nobody can think this is going to go anyplace.

zigziggityzoo
07-15-2015, 07:37 PM
This is a joke...right?

Nobody can think this is going to go anyplace.

We have literally never had a pro-gun bill make it start to finish without one amendment (good or bad).

This kind of thing can get fixed.

G36 Shooter
07-15-2015, 09:01 PM
At some time you have to hit the nail to drive it into the wood. Thanks to Rep. Gamrat for introducing these bills. Sen. Green, take notice.

fozzy71
07-15-2015, 09:08 PM
At some time you have to hit the nail to drive it into the wood. Thanks to Rep. Gamrat for introducing these bills. Sen. Green, take notice.

+1

jmonarch
07-16-2015, 08:23 AM
email sent to my Rep.

langenc
07-16-2015, 08:38 AM
Who said so??

Pass it and see who we replace!!

Make an opportunity to talk w/ your senator/rep.. Emails are ok-face to face is many times as good.. Thank you.

BOSS302
07-16-2015, 08:46 AM
It sounds great but I can't imagine this has any chance of passage. Wouldn't we be better off trying to just rid of registration and/or some of the pistol free zones? It seems like legislation proposed so they can say "Hey we're pro gun and we tried to pass this awesome bill." At the same time knowing full well it has no chance of getting passed the governors desk. We're lucky to get things through in small incremental steps with Snyder.

Or is the plan to start with an awesome bill and hope to get something decent out at the end?

luckless
07-16-2015, 08:58 AM
It sounds great but I can't imagine this has any chance of passage. Wouldn't we be better off trying to just rid of registration and/or some of the pistol free zones? It seems like legislation proposed so they can say "Hey we're pro gun and we tried to pass this awesome bill." At the same time knowing full well it has no chance of getting passed the governors desk. We're lucky to get things through in small incremental steps with Snyder.

Or is the plan to start with an awesome bill and hope to get something decent out at the end?
Well, the incremental strategy has been failing. We keep losing stuff every time they go for a baby step.

Text sent to my Rep. When I see him I'll ask why he isn't a cosponsor.

Jared1981
07-16-2015, 11:09 AM
It sounds great but I can't imagine this has any chance of passage. Wouldn't we be better off trying to just rid of registration and/or some of the pistol free zones? It seems like legislation proposed so they can say "Hey we're pro gun and we tried to pass this awesome bill." At the same time knowing full well it has no chance of getting passed the governors desk. We're lucky to get things through in small incremental steps with Snyder.

Or is the plan to start with an awesome bill and hope to get something decent out at the end?

This bill package eliminates registration for any person 21 years of age and older. If you are 18-20, it will only eliminate registration if you have a valid out of state concealed handgun license.

Not a 100% fix, but it's a 95% fix.

DP425
07-16-2015, 11:36 AM
Nice to see someone spending the time to put a package like this together...

But, you guys don't actually think this stands a snowball's chance in hell of passing do you??

zigziggityzoo
07-16-2015, 12:12 PM
Nice to see someone spending the time to put a package like this together...

But, you guys don't actually think this stands a snowball's chance in hell of passing do you??

Passing? I think it stands a chance. Being signed by Snyder? Not really.

The good news is that we have some of this fleshed out and on the record, making it easier to reintroduce next time around if need be.

mikeb32
07-16-2015, 12:29 PM
Passing? I think it stands a chance. Being signed by Snyder? Not really.

The good news is that we have some of this fleshed out and on the record, making it easier to reintroduce next time around if need be.

+1000 Zig is correct, It is now on record and we have some basis for the future.
We need to keep pushing and contact your Reps. in Lansing!!

DP425
07-16-2015, 03:27 PM
Passing? I think it stands a chance. Being signed by Snyder? Not really.

The good news is that we have some of this fleshed out and on the record, making it easier to reintroduce next time around if need be.

I would be utterly shocked it if makes it for a full vote. Doubtful it will ever come out of committee.

That's just my assessment based upon the way things have gone before.

ninjatoth
07-16-2015, 04:31 PM
It sounds like something that will never pass because of our state's history, but people all over this nation have become so fervent for their gun rights and so fearful or angry over Obama's BS that you really never know. Many places that you wouldn't have expected victories in, people still got them like in Chicago. Stay positive, it will happen! Maybe not this time around but it will at some point.

Leader
07-16-2015, 04:59 PM
It sounds like something that will never pass because of our state's history, but people all over this nation have become so fervent for their gun rights and so fearful or angry over Obama's BS that you really never know. Many places that you wouldn't have expected victories in, people still got them like in Chicago. Stay positive, it will happen! Maybe not this time around but it will at some point.

Ok... I'm POSITIVE this has NO CHANCE of passing anywhere near what it is now.

Coctailer
07-16-2015, 05:13 PM
I keep looking.

What did I miss in the thread relating it to the thread title of Constitutional Carry?

Is there something in there that says we don't need CPLs anymore to carry concealed?

dmd7765
07-16-2015, 05:18 PM
You won't need a cpl in Michigan, but if you want to take your firearm to another state you need the cpl for reciprocity

Roundballer
07-16-2015, 05:26 PM
It sounds like something that will never pass because of our state's history, but people all over this nation have become so fervent for their gun rights and so fearful or angry over Obama's BS that you really never know. Many places that you wouldn't have expected victories in, people still got them like in Chicago. Stay positive, it will happen! Maybe not this time around but it will at some point.

Poor example. Chicago and Ill as a whole were forced by the courts.

black
If this was an anti-bill, it would just be escorted through the process. We would have to fight hard just to get the most oppressive portions dropped, yet the bill would pass in the end.

When the pro's put forth that kind of bill, it goes into committee to never see the light of day again. Many times it goes to a committee who's chair will purposely kill it.

I'd like to keep my hopes up, but with past examples, it will be hard.

zigziggityzoo
07-16-2015, 06:36 PM
I keep looking.

What did I miss in the thread relating it to the thread title of Constitutional Carry?

Is there something in there that says we don't need CPLs anymore to carry concealed?

see my summary. This bill package repeals the crime of carrying concealed. If it's no longer illegal, we get constitutional carry.

45/70fan
07-16-2015, 09:04 PM
Snyder will never allow this to pass!!

luckless
07-17-2015, 02:45 AM
Snyder will never allow this to pass!!

Fine, make him stand up and be counted as an anti gunner. Let's expose the antigun committee chairs so we can demand a change! No more crappy bills with good names. I am tired of the Michigan gun org, who shall not be named, giving our antigun governor political cover because of his party affiliation. If he isn't going to do anything for us, anyway, we have nothing to lose by passing the legislation we want. Getting a teaspoon of sugar on a lump of poop doesn't make the poop any more palatable to me.

bobn
07-17-2015, 05:00 AM
I'm thinking we should get MSP some serious pampers or rubber under garments because they are really gonna embarrass themselves over this bill.
Just my .02. Later, Bob

Leader
07-17-2015, 05:05 AM
I'm thinking we should get MSP some serious pampers or rubber under garments because they are really gonna embarrass themselves over this bill.
Just my .02. Later, Bob

MSP isn't going to have to do or say anything about this DEAD bill.
Everybody knows it's just for show.

G36 Shooter
07-17-2015, 08:50 AM
For show or not this journey needs to start.

Jared1981
07-18-2015, 11:45 AM
Poor example. Chicago and Ill as a whole were forced by the courts.

black
If this was an anti-bill, it would just be escorted through the process. We would have to fight hard just to get the most oppressive portions dropped, yet the bill would pass in the end.

When the pro's put forth that kind of bill, it goes into committee to never see the light of day again. Many times it goes to a committee who's chair will purposely kill it.

I'd like to keep my hopes up, but with past examples, it will be hard.



^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Illinois was forced by a court to do something. Before that ruling, there was a group in the 1990's and 2000's called Illinois Carry, they eventually admitted it was hopeless and the founder moved to Florida with others moving to Indiana.

Before the ruling, the changes of Illinois passing a shall issue bill were equivalent to Texas going may-issue.

SavageDetroit
07-21-2015, 12:49 AM
If his past actions teach us anything, Snyder will back deal to get these Bills watered down or veto them.

To override a veto, do I understand it correctly that there must be a 2/3 majority in both houses?

Divegeek
07-21-2015, 08:05 AM
To override a veto, do I understand it correctly that there must be a 2/3 majority in both houses?

Yes

madmathew
07-22-2015, 08:13 AM
I say push it through and then if Snyder won't sign it we can start pushing for an override.

Shyster
07-22-2015, 08:53 AM
The package is good but not great. In fact, I have to say it isn't even good enough if PFZs still exist.

We can do better.

Leader
07-22-2015, 09:13 AM
The package is good but not great. In fact, I have to say it isn't even good enough if PFZs still exist.

We can do better.

If you agree that this is good, don't you think we should push to get it passed THEN try to get improvements ?

"One small step......"

ninjatoth
07-22-2015, 10:37 AM
If you agree that this is good, don't you think we should push to get it passed THEN try to get improvements ?

"One small step......"

+50^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

luckless
07-22-2015, 05:08 PM
The package is good but not great. In fact, I have to say it isn't even good enough if PFZs still exist.

We can do better.
I agree, but compared to the crap they have passed, this is awesome!

ninjatoth
07-22-2015, 11:26 PM
It's a step in the right direction. However, I don't understand the logic of requiring an LTP for 18-20 yr olds. Either they're adults or not.

It doesn't make a lot of sense, but I could see where they are coming from. It's almost like lawmakers want to keep a 3 year probationary period between 18 and 21 rather than just let them loose in public with firearms, sort of like the logic in having to be 21+ to get a cpl.

thamm
07-23-2015, 05:31 AM
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but I could see where they are coming from. It's almost like lawmakers want to keep a 3 year probationary period between 18 and 21 rather than just let them loose in public with firearms, sort of like the logic in having to be 21+ to get a cpl.

18-20 yr olds can open carry and purchase handguns in private transactions, but they're not mature enough to carry under a shirt and can't buy from a lIcensed dealer?

jmonarch
07-23-2015, 08:27 AM
Purchase from a licensed dealer is a federal issue. Michigan can't correct that.

ninjatoth
07-23-2015, 12:33 PM
18-20 yr olds can open carry and purchase handguns in private transactions, but they're not mature enough to carry under a shirt and can't buy from a lIcensed dealer?

No, they're not. Under the shirt means that they are plotting something evil in their young minds that they can't stop plotting until their 21st birthday. :hick:

thamm
07-23-2015, 12:38 PM
You're right, jmonarch. I'm just tired of the halfway adult status the federal and state governments give to 18-20 yr olds.

weaponx
07-24-2015, 03:44 AM
I sent a facebook message to the NRA, asking if there is anything that could potentially help in the legality of concealed and using a MMJ card. I was forwarded to this bill and her website. Of course my opinion of success, is that same everyone here thinks. :cry:

G22
07-30-2015, 11:09 AM
Contact your reps here:

http://house.michigan.gov/mhrpublic/


The Honorable (full name)
Michigan House of Representatives
Lansing, Michigan 30014

Dear Representative (last name):

The legislation HB4772-4778 addressing Constitutional Carry is of paramount interest to me as a lawful gun owner and a voting constituent in your district. This issue directly impacts my rights and the rights of lawful gun owners throughout Michigan.

I am primarily concerned about repealing certain requirements currently listed within the Michigan Compiled Laws because they are contrary to the Constitution of Michigan Article I § 6. Several other states such as Arizona, Arkansas, Kansas, and Wyoming have taken bold steps in restoring their resident's individual rights. I would also like to propose an amendment to HB4772. Currently as written, HB4772 contains language that effectively keeps pistol free zones intact for those who have a concealed pistol license, while those without a CPL are not bound by these restrictions. I urge you to amend HB4772 and remove pistol free zones entirely.

I realize this may or may not fully represent your viewpoint. Therefore, I will look forward to your reply expressing your opinions, and your current stance on the issue.

Thank you for your consideration of my viewpoint on this matter. I believe it is an important issue, and would like to see HB4772-4778 amended to remove pistol free zones and passed to restore the rights for all Michigan residents.

Sincerely,

Your name,
Address
Phone Number
Email Address

Feel free to use, and/or tweak to your liking.

silverknight674
07-30-2015, 11:30 AM
Contact your reps here:

http://house.michigan.gov/mhrpublic/



Feel free to use, and/or tweak to your liking.

Done

[ion] C2
07-31-2015, 06:37 AM
Michigan House of Representatives
Lansing, Michigan 30014
Is that the proper formatting? I don't want to put that on the envelope and have it go nowhere. Everywhere I've seen has the address formatted as:

P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909-7514

Up above it makes the PO Box look like a zip code. But who knows, I'm not well versed on all the ways you can format an address when it comes to government correspondence.

Roundballer
07-31-2015, 10:35 AM
C2;2644074']Is that the proper formatting? I don't want to put that on the envelope and have it go nowhere. Everywhere I've seen has the address formatted as:

P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909-7514

Up above it makes the PO Box look like a zip code. But who knows, I'm not well versed on all the ways you can format an address when it comes to government correspondence.
There are several acceptable styles for a formal letter.
Generally, the address on the letter head is not the full mailing address, just a formal opening so that when someone picks up the paper, the first thing they see is who the letter is for. Putting the full mailing address there is acceptable, but not needed. It SHOULD be one or the other, not a mix.

The Honorable "Reps' Name"
Michigan House of Representatives
Lansing, Michigan

OR

The Honorable "Reps' Name"
S-1186 House Office Building
P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909

Not a mixture of the types.

What goes on the envelope is the second one, the mailing address.

If you are using "window" envelopes, use the second one on the letter.


Then, in a formal letter when you are using either a formal address or the mailing address as the letter head, the opening should be a simpler "Dear Sir" (or Madam) not a repeat of the persons' title and name.

[ion] C2
07-31-2015, 02:40 PM
Thanks. Mailed! I'll call too to encourage support.

Jared1981
08-04-2015, 10:09 AM
18-20 yr olds can open carry and purchase handguns in private transactions, but they're not mature enough to carry under a shirt and can't buy from a lIcensed dealer?

18 year olds (and younger) can conceal carry in MI if they win the zip code lottery.

Indiana issues to 18 year olds. They can carry here at 18.

New Hampshire has no age minimum and according to MI law, their license is valid.

[ion] C2
08-04-2015, 11:23 AM
18 year olds (and younger) can conceal carry in MI if they win the zip code lottery.
What does that mean?

Jared1981
08-04-2015, 04:28 PM
C2;2645745']What does that mean?

That means if you live in California, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alabama, Indiana, Maine, and a few other states, you can be 18 years old and visit Michigan with as many concealed handguns as you want.

It means that a 12 year old from New Hampshire with a Pistol License and a note from their parents (18 USC 922x) can carry concealed in Michigan.

You only have to be at least 21 if you live in Michigan; therefore, the zip code lottery fails you. Of course, you can be MCOLES certified at 18 and carry a concealed handgun via that venue.

doesch
08-05-2015, 04:49 PM
Letter written; this sounds like an amazing step in protecting our civil right to own & carry guns. We'll never get anything that's perfect, but we need to take steps in the right direction. If you want to wait for perfection please let me know what in your life has worked out perfectly and when you wanted it. Take what you can get and move forward.

Jared1981
08-06-2015, 09:54 AM
Letter written; this sounds like an amazing step in protecting our civil right to own & carry guns. We'll never get anything that's perfect, but we need to take steps in the right direction. If you want to wait for perfection please let me know what in your life has worked out perfectly and when you wanted it. Take what you can get and move forward.

What worked out perfectly in my life?

When I moved out of NJ for good.

CircuitRider
08-06-2015, 04:46 PM
Contact your reps here:

http://house.michigan.gov/mhrpublic/



Feel free to use, and/or tweak to your liking.
Thanks for the template. Sent to Rep. Paul Muxlow yesterday.

dmd7765
08-07-2015, 08:06 AM
This set of bills is Dead, as are two politicians careers.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/08/06/recordings-state-rep-asked-aide-hide-relationship/31269315/

luckless
08-07-2015, 08:23 AM
We're screwed until the next election, again.

(Pun intended)

Leader
08-07-2015, 09:08 AM
This set of bills is Dead, as are two politicians careers.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/08/06/recordings-state-rep-asked-aide-hide-relationship/31269315/

See post #9

tenthumbs
08-07-2015, 10:26 AM
This set of bills is Dead, as are two politicians careers.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/08/06/recordings-state-rep-asked-aide-hide-relationship/31269315/

Having met and heard Courser speak several times I always had an uneasy feeling about him. He said the right things about firearms... but there was just something. He and Gamrat have given the anti's literally years worth of talking points.

He is my[hopefully soon was] congressman. I won't go beyond that other than to say I'm outraged that he would engage in this. It's always the cover up that gets them.

I know a few people that were heavily invested [not monetarily] in him. I hope Courser will stand before them and explain his actions.


See post #9

Apparently for you to feel vindicated as being correct is more important than the opportunity to have this legislation passed.

Gloating about this and inferring that you were right while having no clue of the scandal says more about you than...well,I don't have the words, at least none that would comply with the AUP.

Or are you going to claim sarcasm?

Leader
08-07-2015, 10:41 AM
Having met and heard Courser speak several times I always had an uneasy feeling about him. He said the right things about firearms... but there was just something. He and Gamrat have given the anti's literally years worth of talking points.

He is my[hopefully soon was] congressman. I won't go beyond that other than to say I'm outraged that he would engage in this. It's always the cover up that gets them.

I know a few people that were heavily invested [not monetarily] in him. I hope Courser will stand before them and explain his actions.



Apparently for you to feel vindicated as being correct is more important than the opportunity to have this legislation passed.

Gloating about this and inferring that you were right while having no clue of the scandal says more about you than...well,I don't have the words, at least none that would comply with the AUP.

Or are you going to claim sarcasm?

If it hadn't been this, it would have been something else.
This bill had NO CHANCE IN H--- of passing as written from day one.

Tedfs
08-07-2015, 11:13 AM
I can't say what I feel needs to happen because of forum rules. That said, we need a fresh start in this state if we are ever going to get our rights back.

DV8r
08-07-2015, 01:46 PM
This is a start and good to see.

Does anyone know if the other States who have recently passed something similar got it through on the first try?
It's not unusual for this kind of legislation to need multiple takes.

Lets keep pushing our elected officials, or keep replacing them until we get the whole Constitution back!

tenthumbs
08-07-2015, 02:13 PM
This is a start and good to see.

Does anyone know if the other States who have recently passed something similar got it through on the first try?
It's not unusual for this kind of legislation to need multiple takes.

Lets keep pushing our elected officials, or keep replacing them until we get the whole Constitution back!

I agree. Lets hope another rep. picks up the torch and goes forward.

Jared1981
08-08-2015, 06:24 PM
This is a start and good to see.

Does anyone know if the other States who have recently passed something similar got it through on the first try?
It's not unusual for this kind of legislation to need multiple takes.

Lets keep pushing our elected officials, or keep replacing them until we get the whole Constitution back!

Yes, Alaska.

A democrat state rep was walking home in Juneau and he thought the licensing requirement was stupid, so he wrote a bill to make it optional in 2002/2003. It passed with little trouble.

Vermont always had it.

langenc
08-15-2015, 10:09 PM
I say push it through and then if Snyder won't sign it we can start pushing for an override.

Absolutely!!

The PFZs will be next. Don't go w/ the 'it will never pass gang'. Make some pay if it don't pass...

jabe421
09-08-2015, 06:32 PM
You can still sign the petition to support Michigan House Bills 4772 - 4778. It may not go anywhere now but the more signatures the more willing someone would be to continue the efforts.

http://www.cindygamrat.com/concarry

DV8r
09-09-2015, 02:43 PM
Right now Cindy has her hands full with other issues....

luckless
09-09-2015, 06:42 PM
You can still sign the petition to support Michigan House Bills 4772 - 4778. It may not go anywhere now but the more signatures the more willing someone would be to continue the efforts.

http://www.cindygamrat.com/concarry
It is too pro-gun. We will have to work hard to get republicans elected to state offices first. Once the gop controls the house, senate, judiciary and the governors office we will finally be able to get pro-gun bills like this passed. Until then, we gun owners owe it to the republican party to work hard and get them reelected.