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View Full Version : 20 10 vision after laser surgery? Am I asking for to much?



bountybuddy
08-08-2015, 07:40 AM
At my age I might be nuts even thinking about this. I'm 71. One of my best friends is also 71. He had laser surgery in his right eye down in Ann Arbor. Darned if it didn't turn out to be 20 10 vision in that eye. He had problems with his other eye and is legally blind in his left eye. His right eye is 20 10 or perfect. His right eye is his sight eye. I can shoot 1" groups. He can shoot 1/2" groups. I had laser cataract surgery in both of my eyes. I had to use glasses when I read for the last 35 years. Now I no longer wear glasses when I read. I no longer wear glasses. My eyes are much better than they were but they are not perfect. Is it possible to have laser surgery and after it have 20 10 vision in both eyes that will stay that way for a few years or longer? I've ask my eye doctor this question but he won't give me a straight answer. Do any of you have any opinions on this. If any of you know of a doctor that can do this I would very much like to talk to him. Many thanks for your help. May all your paths be bright ones. Shoot well my friends.

solarguy
08-08-2015, 08:27 AM
I wouldn't do it, and I'm an optometrist.

Normal good vision is 20/20. 20/10 is better than normal. There is no such animal as "perfect" vision.

Uhmmmmm, there is sometimes funny business in how vision is measured after a LASIK procedure, and patients often score "better than" 20/20. A significant percentage of those patients just get better at testing since they do the Snellen visual acuity test so many times. So there's that.


The reason your optometrist wouldn't give a straight answer is that there is no straight answer.

All surgical procedures have risk of complications. It might work. Or...you could end up worse off than you are now.


Did I mention that if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't do it?


Finest regards,

Troy the optometrist.

Ruger
08-08-2015, 11:00 AM
I wouldn't do it, and I'm an optometrist.

Normal good vision is 20/20. 20/10 is better than normal. There is no such animal as "perfect" vision.

Uhmmmmm, there is sometimes funny business in how vision is measured after a LASIK procedure, and patients often score "better than" 20/20. A significant percentage of those patients just get better at testing since they do the Snellen visual acuity test so many times. So there's that.


The reason your optometrist wouldn't give a straight answer is that there is no straight answer.

All surgical procedures have risk of complications. It might work. Or...you could end up worse off than you are now.


Did I mention that if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't do it?


Finest regards,

Troy the optometrist.

Do you have a suggestion for a Dr. to do cataract surgery? I'm a likely candidate.

solarguy
08-08-2015, 04:28 PM
Practically speaking, it's hard to find a bad cataract surgeon these days. I'm sure they exist, but they are rare.

Ask your optometrist. Almost without exception, they work with who they know does good work locally.


There are a few practices that have been purchased by big ophthalmology groups who are just trolling for cataracts. By purchasing the practice, they get access to more or less all the patients in that practice that have cataracts, even just a little bit.

So if you call for an appointment, I suppose you could ask if the practice is owned by an ophthalmology group...

The trick is, some are owned in that way, and still do fantastic work and don't color outside the lines at all.

So I default back to, you would have a hard time finding a bad cataract surgeon.

If the first doc says you need the surgery, you could always get a second opinion.

hope that helps...

Ruger
08-08-2015, 06:28 PM
The one recommended to us is Ophthalmic specialist of Michigan Coburn-Kleinfeldt eye clinic in Livonia...

The Wife was there last week and she has nothing but good things to say about the place....

Me......I saw an endless line of people going in and out of the door every 15 minutes.........like assembly line surgery..

solarguy
08-08-2015, 07:39 PM
About the assembly line thing...

An efficient cataract surgeon will do the entire procedure in 8-12 minutes unless something funny happens. And, in fact, you want an efficient surgeon because the longer they fiddle around in there, the greater the chance of infection and other complications.

The common setup is to have two surgical suites, so while he or she is operating in door number 1, Bob is getting prepped in door number 2. It's just efficient use of the doctor's time.

The other factor that makes it like an assembly line is...drum roll...your federal government. Medicare pays for the vast majority of cataract procedures, b/c it's mostly older folks who get them.

Let's say a surgeon used to make $2,000 on a procedure. Hey, they are reversing blindness. It's a freaking miracle practically.

But as the decades roll on, the feds have cut the price back, and back, and back, and back, and back some more. Now (don't quote me), the surgeon might only see 700 bucks.

Well hey, Mr. surgeon (I'm not a surgeon, just so we're clear, I'm an optometrist) has a big fat bill for liability insurance. Plus all those porsche payments, and hey, he does want to live in a nice house, so there's a mortgage in there to pay.

Your mechanic might make more to replace your exhaust system or brakes and doesn't have to go to school for 10 years or more.

So, they had to figure out a way to do double or triple the surgeries in the same time. Yet still, the most successful surgery in human history. 98-99% success rates.

Next time you hear some politician talk about how they are going to make medicine more efficient, that's what it means usually. Less face time with the doctor.


Finest regards,

troy

Ruger
08-08-2015, 08:13 PM
Thank you Troy, great explanation of what the process appeared to be to me. I'm hoping to get my vision back to a point where I don't have 5 pair of glasses all over the house and in my car. :cheers:

solarguy
08-08-2015, 10:20 PM
There are more or less 4 options with cataract surgery:

Distance only implants. They will try to get you so you can drive with no correction. This is not possible if you have high amounts of certain kinds of astigmatism unless you get a special toric IOL implant (several thousand extra). They usually get it pretty dang close. You might need mild driving glasses, or someday driving glasses.


Reading only implants. Let's say you're a world class crossword puzzle, and that's what you do for 10 hours a day. They can put single vision implants in both eyes that give you great vision at 16-20" and you put glasses on to drive or watch tv.


Mix and match (Monovision) they correct one eye for distance and make the other eye nearsighted so you don't have to jack around with reading glasses 200 times a day. It's not super clear anywhere, but it's pretty good every where. We do the same thing with contacts. If you want this, you could try it in contacts first before you get it installed permanantly.


Bifocal implants. They work like bifocal contacts, NOT like bifocal glasses. You don't have to jack around with reading glasses, but you ABSOLUTELY WILL see halos around headlights and tail lights and street lights. It's a little blurry at some distances, but not bad. They cost a few thousand extra also. You can't have super high expectations about crispness and sharpness, but it's not bad.

Ruger
08-11-2015, 09:12 AM
Had my pre surgery exam yesterday.........

Cataract surgery scheduled for August 20th!

No promises were made, just the assurance that I'd see much better and then we'd decide on the other eye in the near future.

tenthumbs
08-11-2015, 09:54 AM
Good luck Ruger! Hope all goes well. :thumbup:

solarguy
08-11-2015, 10:22 AM
They will use an eye drop anesthetic to numb the surface of your eye. You will also get an IV sedative, typically versed. Versed makes you very relaxed and many patients feel elevated mood or giddy, sometimes euphoric. It is also a mild amnesiac, so many patients have a hard time recalling too many of the details of the actual procedure. It's also a very good anti-anxiety drug. I refer to it as the "I don't give a s__t drug."

Many patients will feel a sensation of pressure during the procedure, but not pain, perhaps mild discomfort. It will feel a little scratchy for a day or two.

They will likely tell you your vision will take a week or two to stabilize, so don't be alarmed if it's not super sharp the first few days...



this is not medical advice, I'm not your doctor, blah blah blah, more legal mumbo jumbo, do your own due diligence, yada yada...

Good luck, have fun and take your drops religiously.


troy rhodes, O.D.

Ricebrnr
08-11-2015, 11:14 AM
There are more or less 4 options with cataract surgery:

Distance only implants. They will try to get you so you can drive with no correction. This is not possible if you have high amounts of certain kinds of astigmatism unless you get a special toric IOL implant (several thousand extra). They usually get it pretty dang close. You might need mild driving glasses, or someday driving glasses.


Reading only implants. Let's say you're a world class crossword puzzle, and that's what you do for 10 hours a day. They can put single vision implants in both eyes that give you great vision at 16-20" and you put glasses on to drive or watch tv.


Mix and match (Monovision) they correct one eye for distance and make the other eye nearsighted so you don't have to jack around with reading glasses 200 times a day. It's not super clear anywhere, but it's pretty good every where. We do the same thing with contacts. If you want this, you could try it in contacts first before you get it installed permanantly.


Bifocal implants. They work like bifocal contacts, NOT like bifocal glasses. You don't have to jack around with reading glasses, but you ABSOLUTELY WILL see halos around headlights and tail lights and street lights. It's a little blurry at some distances, but not bad. They cost a few thousand extra also. You can't have super high expectations about crispness and sharpness, but it's not bad.

What about PCIOLs or ACIOLs (presbyopia correcting/anterior chamber intra ocular lenses)? They are supposed to be multi focal and would likely have similar halos.

Why would'nt that be a 5th option?

Ruger
08-11-2015, 12:30 PM
Good luck Ruger! Hope all goes well. :thumbup:


Thank you Sir.... :salute:

Ruger
08-11-2015, 12:39 PM
They will use an eye drop anesthetic to numb the surface of your eye. You will also get an IV sedative, typically versed. Versed makes you very relaxed and many patients feel elevated mood or giddy, sometimes euphoric. It is also a mild amnesiac, so many patients have a hard time recalling too many of the details of the actual procedure. It's also a very good anti-anxiety drug. I refer to it as the "I don't give a s__t drug."

Many patients will feel a sensation of pressure during the procedure, but not pain, perhaps mild discomfort. It will feel a little scratchy for a day or two.

They will likely tell you your vision will take a week or two to stabilize, so don't be alarmed if it's not super sharp the first few days...



this is not medical advice, I'm not your doctor, blah blah blah, more legal mumbo jumbo, do your own due diligence, yada yada...

Good luck, have fun and take your drops religiously.


troy rhodes, O.D.


Thanks Troy, I was very hesitant until you posted! The Dr. that looked at my eyes told me I had to know there was something going on with my left eye because of the cloudiness.... I told him I usually hold off to the last second before caring for myself and that my wife's eyes and other health issues were more important then mine. Like all of my Dr.s he just shook his head. Thanks again, we're lucky to have you here for the advice and the reassurance.

:cheers:

solarguy
08-11-2015, 03:40 PM
What about PCIOLs or ACIOLs (presbyopia correcting/anterior chamber intra ocular lenses)? They are supposed to be multi focal and would likely have similar halos.

Why would'nt that be a 5th option?

"Multifocal" and "bifocal" implants are the same thing but with better marketing in some cases.

Mutifocal implants look pretty good at two distances, and not terrible at other distancs. It's the same technology as multifocal contacts. The vision doesn't suck, usually mostly. It's pretty convenient if you're standards aren't too picky and you will see halos around every light source at night.

balrog006
08-12-2015, 08:50 PM
Thank you Troy, great explanation of what the process appeared to be to me. I'm hoping to get my vision back to a point where I don't have 5 pair of glasses all over the house and in my car. :cheers:

In addition to the great explanation already given ill offer this as a LASIK patient.

In order to see patients, both pre and post surgery and still perform the surgeries Docs typically schedule all of their procedures for one or two days a week. This allows them to be efficient at both patient visits and the procedures as they don't have to constantly switch back and forth throughout the day loosing time and focus on task in doing so.

They'll schedule all of their procedures as already explained, back to back to back and knock them out. Days before and after are spent in exams both routine, pre and post surgery. It's the best most efficient use of their time and resources.

dirtmcgirt76239
09-15-2020, 01:19 PM
I do not think you should expect 20/20. Is that realistic, is it something 60-90 percent of the people get ?

If you are 70 with good eyes, or good with glasses on, why risk it ? If you can shoot one inch groups I assume at 100 yards with your not so crazy rifle, just a ruger 77, win 70, savage 110 etc what more do you need?

Smokepole
09-15-2020, 02:20 PM
I have been wearing thick glasses since I was 10 years old,extremely far sighted,with strong astigmatism.

But,with today's amazing technology,and custom made implants,the best thing that ever happened to me was having cataract surgery a year ago,almost to this day.

I now have 20/20 vision in both eyes,and don't need any glasses,other than sunglasses,or shooting glasses.

I was fortunate that one of the world's best ophthalmologists is in Traverse City.
...Guy has a PhD. from Harvard,plus additional work at Mass. Eye Institute.

Everything was done by his gifted hands,no computer at all.
I was mostly fully conscious for the whole thing,and had both eyes done about two weeks apart.

Truly a life changing event.
...For me anyway.


P.S. I have a more lengthy post on this from about a year ago that more fully explains my experience.

...Here's looking at ya!

Roundballer
09-15-2020, 02:25 PM
Has anyone else spotted that this is a 5 year old thread, brought back with a first post by a guy that has a location of "New York"?

IP check in "Optics Forum" please.

balrog006
09-15-2020, 07:58 PM
You must talk to user doctor. Sometime after cataract surgery some patient face the problem of double vission and it is because of neuro-adaptation. exercises to enhance neuro adaptation.

In English please?

Scoop
09-15-2020, 08:02 PM
I wouldn't do it, and I'm an optometrist.My wife always says I look for the negative in everything, but I like to think I'm like you.


:roflmao:

Scoop
09-15-2020, 08:05 PM
Has anyone else spotted that this is a 5 year old thread, brought back with a first post by a guy that has a location of "New York"?

IP check in "Optics Forum" please.Yup!

I did have to LOL on Smokepole's comment "P.S. I have a more lengthy post on this from about a year ago that more fully explains my experience."

G22
09-17-2020, 08:03 AM
Unfortunately SkellyK had to leave us and go back to Bhopal, India.

Scoop
09-17-2020, 08:51 AM
Unfortunately SkellyK had to leave us and go back to Bhopal, India.Tsk, tsk.

balrog006
09-17-2020, 08:35 PM
Unfortunately SkellyK had to leave us and go back to Bhopal, India.

Awww, they were just trying to understand the American fascination with vision correction surgery :whistle: