Educate Me, Please.

[scatter]

I want to put a scope on my AR. Its main use will be for varmints. Especially coyotes. As I've seen our 166 acres go from a small game haven, to a home for fox and coyotes. Something's got to be done.
I'm thinking of something in the 5-20 power range. 400-500yds max. I would like to stay around $1000.00, if possible. The rifle is a colt. 20" service barrel. 1-7 twist. I'm not sure if I'm going to change the barrel, or not. Depends on how it shoots once the optics are mounted.
Something that is important to me, is the ability to have the factory design custom turrets based off my field data. It also has to have a side focus. As my astigmatism makes it hard for me to maintain eye focus while adjusting the power.
I see Nikon makes a number of scopes with these features. But none of their scopes come in ffp. At the yardage I'm looking at, is a ffp a necessity? Or at least important enough where it should be a consideration?

[IraqVet1982]

I strongly recommend against getting predetermined turrets - those are a marketing scheme.

You're right on track with getting a FFP scope especially if you plan on using a various magnifications. You might want to consider an SWFA, Vortex, or save a little dough and get a Primary Arms FFP. Focus on getting a MIL/MIL scope or an MOA/MOA scope - which ever you prefer but make sure the reticle matches the adjustments. Next get a chrony (if you don't already have one), test your loads in your gun, and plug the results into a ballistics calculator (lots of apps online or through Google Play/Apple Store - the STERLOK app has preinstall reticles), create a dope card and verify your dope card out to 500m (adjust as required). If you go with a Vortex you can use their ballistics calculators for their reticles (http://apps.vortexoptics.com/lrbc/).

[scatter]

I'm on with your thinking.
I'm not looking to buy predetermined turrets. What Nikon does, from my understanding, is send a turret that just has numbers on it. Using their online ballistics calculator, and your own field data, you record your results, and send them in. They will then make a custom turret, with yardage measurements for each specific load. You can have as many turrets as you want.

I bought a cheap BSA Sweet 17 for my .17hmr several years ago. The preset numbers weren't very accurate. So I've already done what you suggested. I dialed it in from 50yds out. In 25yd increments. Recording the turret settings on a 3x5 index card. So when I hit something with a rangefinder, I look at my reference card and I know where to turn my dial to. It works great. Considering it's a $125.00 scope. A custom turret would eliminate the reference card. Making it quick, and eliminating the chance of losing your cheat-sheet. I think some other companies offer a similar service.

[04JRB]

Two options I see at that price point:
Vortex Viper PST FFP, the 6-24x cost me under $1000, and the 4-16x is cheaper yet.
Burris XTRII

both are great scopes for the money, my deciding factor was that the Viper has IR, and the Burris did not.

A bit out of your price limit, but you may find a good deal on a used Gen1 Razor which is really nice. It is much nicer than my viper anyway.

[Shyster]

Gotta love Vortex. I'm running a Razr 5-20x50 Gen 1 on my Steyr SSG and it is by far the best scope I've ever owned

[04JRB]

Gotta love Vortex. I'm running a Razr 5-20x50 Gen 1 on my Steyr SSG and it is by far the best scope I've ever owned

I personally should've saved a tad bit more and sought out a used Gen1 Razor. After viewing through the Razor Gen1 and comparing it to my Viper PST, there really was no comparison! The Razor glass is much nicer, and brighter. I will eventually step up to a Gen2 Razor when funds are available, The Gen2 I looked through was definitely superior to the Gen1 and makes my Viper PST look really bad, and Im happy with my Viper PST.

I am fairly impressed with the Vortex offerings, I have always been a Leopold fan and have quite a few of them. But when stepping into this type of shooting, I did not like what Leopold had to offer at my price point. The Mark 8's are nice, but DAMN expensive. I even challenged the Leopold rep at Cabelas to find me a direct competitor to the Viper PST I was there to purchase (The regional sales Mgr happened to be at the scope counter that day). He showed me a nice mark 8 for $4,500!!! IIRC on the price. If Im spending that kind of money on a tactical FFP scope, it would be a USO or S&B!

[scatter]

I think I'll send some email questions to some of the companies. I'm very set on a custom turret option.
I'm also a traditional cross-hair fan. Not much on mil-dot. IR is not really that important either.

Performance is a bigger issue. Clarity. And consistency dialing yardage up and down.

[04JRB]

I think I'll send some email questions to some of the companies. I'm very set on a custom turret option.
I'm also a traditional cross-hair fan. Not much on mil-dot. IR is not really that important either.

Performance is a bigger issue. Clarity. And consistency dialing yardage up and down.

If you do not want a mil-dot or mil-hash reticle, and are not concerned about ranging with your reticle, then save a bunch of money and go SFP. If you will want to be able to range with your reticle you will need a mil-dot or mil-hash reticle and you want FFP. It really comes down to what you want to do with your optic. Do you want to only focus on hunting and 100-200 yard KNOWN distance shooting, or do you want to start tactical shooting, UNKNOWN distances, leads for moving targets, holds for wind, etc.. The FFP will do both, but the SFP will not (at least without making sure your magnification is set on the calibrated magnification for ranging, even then you still want a mil-hash or mil-dot for that use).

I cant imagine dialing in without FFP anymore, but that's for target/tactical shooting. For Hunting, Im not concerned about FFP/SFP as I usually know my distances for my spots I hunt and can more than adequately dial in when I know the distance to target.

Jim

[Oreo57]

If you're set on a traditional duplex reticle then FFP is kind of a waste of money. There are plenty of nice optics out there with quality glass that are SFP. The only other thing I will say - if you intend to use turrets rather than correct with dots/bars, make sure you at least check out reviews and box tests. Many mid-range and even a few high-end scopes fail the box test miserably. Spells doom for correction w/ turrets IMHO.

[EricF517]

I think I'll send some email questions to some of the companies. I'm very set on a custom turret option.
I'm also a traditional cross-hair fan. Not much on mil-dot. IR is not really that important either.

Performance is a bigger issue. Clarity. And consistency dialing yardage up and down.

Ok here we go. Well you can't go wrong with the PST at all. Have you ever used a mil reticle? Trust me they will be the only way you can make consistent accurate shots at range. As far as the illuminated reticle, do you ever plan on hunting at dusk, or first light? Ever plan on shooting in just crappy light or a real heavy backdrop? Trust me I thought the same thing until I used the first one I got. As for the custom turret option Vortex PST has them. You will need lots of dope and data to get them right. Oh not to mention Vortex has about the best customer service you can ever ask for, and a lifetime warranty.

PS. you can find them used cheaper than new. Not to mention getting your hands on a Gen I Razor, or Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21.

[scatter]

I took a look at the PST 6-24x50. Good looking scope. Price is appropriate. Reviews are good.
I could get used to ranging with a scope.
Besides coyotes at home, I have a friend out in Western Nebraska that has some decent coyote and prairie dog hunting on his land. He's a dry-land farmer that owns and leases upwards of 3000 acres.

That type of hunting is the biggest reason for wanting custom turrets. Not being familiar with it, I wonder how precise ranging with a scope is on small targets at a medium distance.

[EricF517]

I took a look at the PST 6-24x50. Good looking scope. Price is appropriate. Reviews are good.
I could get used to ranging with a scope.
Besides coyotes at home, I have a friend out in Western Nebraska that has some decent coyote and prairie dog hunting on his land. He's a dry-land farmer that owns and leases upwards of 3000 acres.

That type of hunting is the biggest reason for wanting custom turrets. Not being familiar with it, I wonder how precise ranging with a scope is on small targets at a medium distance.

LOL wear at in Western NE?

I will tell you right now, out there, if you aren't good at reading wind you are going to be getting pissed shooting a 223. You will for sure want heavies out there in 223. Took me a month to get good at it when I was out there. You will get 5-10 steady everyday with gusts up to 25 on an average day. Not to mention the wind is shifty in a lot of areas out there. I used to purposely shoot on extremely windy days out there when you were getting gusts upwards of 60mph. Even with a 1/4 value wind, 75ghpbt's in the Mini SASS I was having to hold anywhere from 2.5 Mils to 5 Mils of wind.

Custom turrets really aren't going to do you that much justice in all actuality. Knowing your DOPE is #1, knowing your wind is #2. Biggest suggestion is to once you get a spot set draw a field sketch as to your layout and shoot stuff with a range finder. That way a glance at a piece of paper is all you need to dial elevation and then you just have to worry about the wind. With you want to yote hunt as well (NE yotes are fast and change direction often) an Horus reticle in a Bushnell HDMR may serve you better. Not to mention fast target shots since you don't even have to dial at all as long as you know your hold over and can read your wind.

[EricF517]

Give you an idea on some quick access to DOPE

http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=56992

http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=49848

[scatter]

LOL wear at in Western NE?

I will tell you right now, out there, if you aren't good at reading wind you are going to be getting pissed shooting a 223. You will for sure want heavies out there in 223. Took me a month to get good at it when I was out there. You will get 5-10 steady everyday with gusts up to 25 on an average day. Not to mention the wind is shifty in a lot of areas out there. I used to purposely shoot on extremely windy days out there when you were getting gusts upwards of 60mph. Even with a 1/4 value wind, 75ghpbt's in the Mini SASS I was having to hold anywhere from 2.5 Mils to 5 Mils of wind.

Custom turrets really aren't going to do you that much justice in all actuality. Knowing your DOPE is #1, knowing your wind is #2. Biggest suggestion is to once you get a spot set draw a field sketch as to your layout and shoot stuff with a range finder. That way a glance at a piece of paper is all you need to dial elevation and then you just have to worry about the wind. With you want to yote hunt as well (NE yotes are fast and change direction often) an Horus reticle in a Bushnell HDMR may serve you better. Not to mention fast target shots since you don't even have to dial at all as long as you know your hold over and can read your wind.


That's how I shoot my .17 right now. I have my yardages vs turret position written down on a 3x5 index card. I've also done some playing with the windage knob, too. It's pretty accurate, for what it is. I recently smacked a chipmunk standing on it's hind legs at about 80 yards. I don't know if I could make that shot twice, or not. It's by no means a long distance shot. But not bad for a little rimfire shooting plastic tipped Hornady ammo.

My friend's farm is north of Chappel.

[EricF517]

That's how I shoot my .17 right now. I have my yardages vs turret position written down on a 3x5 index card. I've also done some playing with the windage knob, too. It's pretty accurate, for what it is. I recently smacked a chipmunk standing on it's hind legs at about 80 yards. I don't know if I could make that shot twice, or not. It's by no means a long distance shot. But not bad for a little rimfire shooting plastic tipped Hornady ammo.

My friend's farm is north of Chappel.

No Scatter, there is where you will fall short. You need to train until you can make that shot 10/10 times. As for playing with the Windage knob...........Ask Danco how that works out LOL. Have you ever seen the H-59 reticle? Think of it this way. A yote at 500y is as easy as know your wind hold, quick glance at the drop chart on the rifle, hold the appropriate spot on the rifle and let it go. You don't have to even tough the knobs.

Before you head to NE I have another question for you. Do you have a 22lr? If so the next really windy day take it out, set up a target at 150y and work on wind calls. It will be about the equal to shooting a 308 at 500y.

LOL wouldn't be Oshkosh would it?

[scatter]

I have probably made that shot 10 out of 10 on paper. The scope on the .17 is a 6-18x40.
I do have to admit, thinking about it now, that a ranging scope would be nice on it. It's just something I've never considered. I did look at that reticle. Kind of intimidating. It would take me burning thru a lot of cheap ammo just to figure it out.
As stupid as it sounds, I've actually been watching some youtube videos on using mildot scopes. Being old school, it's just something I've never considered.

His farm is not quite as far north as Oshkosh. Kind of southeast. It's nothing but wide open farm ground up that way. A lot of land, and very few houses. IIRC, the elevation is somewhere around 3200ft. This would actually be my first trip out there hunting.
I met the guy by chance. I sold a skid steer to a guy on Ebay. It was in the fall of '07. Because it was harvest time, he paid me to deliver it the 1100 or so miles it was. My gps incorrectly routed me to take the Brule exit and go west toward Chappell. Right when you get off that exit, there's a gas station on the left. It's before you cross the river and tracks where the grain elevator is at. I stopped and filled up with diesel. While I was in paying, a guy walked in and commented about the Michigan plates on my truck and trailer. We got talking, and it turned out he new a guy over in my area. They both were breeders of Scottish Highland Cattle. And I knew that guy, because I had done the concrete on his new home. So- small world.
So I guess the guy is really more of an acquaintance the friend. But we do keep in contact. And we've met for lunch a couple of times when he comes this way buying and selling cattle. He's extended the invite several times, so I think I'll finally take him up on it.

[EricF517]

I have probably made that shot 10 out of 10 on paper. The scope on the .17 is a 6-18x40.
I do have to admit, thinking about it now, that a ranging scope would be nice on it. It's just something I've never considered. I did look at that reticle. Kind of intimidating. It would take me burning thru a lot of cheap ammo just to figure it out.
As stupid as it sounds, I've actually been watching some youtube videos on using mildot scopes. Being old school, it's just something I've never considered.

His farm is not quite as far north as Oshkosh. Kind of southeast. It's nothing but wide open farm ground up that way. A lot of land, and very few houses. IIRC, the elevation is somewhere around 3200ft. This would actually be my first trip out there hunting.
I met the guy by chance. I sold a skid steer to a guy on Ebay. It was in the fall of '06. Because it was harvest time, he paid me to deliver it the 1100 or so miles it was. My gps incorrectly routed me to take the Brule exit and go west toward Chappell. Right when you get off that exit, there's a gas station on the left. It's before you cross the river and tracks where the grain elevator is at. I stopped and filled up with diesel. While I was in paying, a guy walked in and commented about the Michigan plates on my truck and trailer. We got talking, and it turned out he new a guy over in my area. They both were breeders of Scottish Highland Cattle. And I knew that guy, because I had done the concrete on his new home. So- small world.
So I guess the guy is really more of an acquaintance the friend. But we do keep in contact. And we've met for lunch a couple of times when he comes this way buying and selling cattle. He's extended the invite several times, so I think I'll finally take him up on it.

There are a few good ones out there on the Horus reticle. Not only give you an idea of what it looks like through it and how to use it.

Oh so he is before the bluffs that drop into Oshkosh. Damn man it is windy up that way. I know there was a guy farming out on Road 185 north of Road 22 that was having a yote problem. Hell on the calm day when I stopped by there it was ripping through. You can go and zero in Julesburg at the range there out to 600y on steel. The range is right where 385 ends at 138. LOL there isn't anything in Brule at all.

I do sugest that you head out on the windiest days we have here and it will be an average day out there. That wind is tough to shoot in for sure.

[scatter]

There are a few good ones out there on the Horus reticle. Not only give you an idea of what it looks like through it and how to use it.

Oh so he is before the bluffs that drop into Oshkosh. Damn man it is windy up that way. I know there was a guy farming out on Road 185 north of Road 22 that was having a yote problem. Hell on the calm day when I stopped by there it was ripping through. You can go and zero in Julesburg at the range there out to 600y on steel. The range is right where 385 ends at 138. LOL there isn't anything in Brule at all.

I do sugest that you head out on the windiest days we have here and it will be an average day out there. That wind is tough to shoot in for sure.

Wow. The guy I sold the skid steer to lives on Road 181, iirc. He has a pretty good size farm himself. Seems like he said he farmed about 2700 acres. I barely met the guy. Really nice, but kind of an odd sort. Small world.
It looks like a tough area to live in. Wide open. Not a damn tree to block the wind anywhere.

I really hope to head out there next year. It will all hinge on how my wife is doing. But I definitely have to come up with some glass.

[EricF517]

Wow. The guy I sold the skid steer to lives on Road 181, iirc. He has a pretty good size farm himself. Seems like he said he farmed about 2700 acres. I barely met the guy. Really nice, but kind of an odd sort. Small world.
It looks like a tough area to live in. Wide open. Not a damn tree to block the wind anywhere.

I really hope to head out there next year. It will all hinge on how my wife is doing. But I definitely have to come up with some glass.

LOL wonder if it is the same guy. When you are out there you can easily tell where the houses are at. If you see trees, there is a house. If you see a tree line, then there is a river or creek. Most everyone out there is nice unless you run into the meth heads LOL. Chappell is like stepping back into 1950 for the most part.

Well if you are planning on heading out that way next year, my suggestion is to try to get a speed goat tag. There are LOTS up in that area around there and some damn big bucks. If you can get a muley tag there are some big *******s out there. Problem is that they roam so far out there. That and they are about the easiest animal to hunt I think. The ones out there are like cows, they don't run away often LOL.

[scatter]

LOL wonder if it is the same guy. When you are out there you can easily tell where the houses are at. If you see trees, there is a house. If you see a tree line, then there is a river or creek. Most everyone out there is nice unless you run into the meth heads LOL. Chappell is like stepping back into 1950 for the most part.

Well if you are planning on heading out that way next year, my suggestion is to try to get a speed goat tag. There are LOTS up in that area around there and some damn big bucks. If you can get a muley tag there are some big *******s out there. Problem is that they roam so far out there. That and they are about the easiest animal to hunt I think. The ones out there are like cows, they don't run away often LOL.

Carlson was the last name of the guy I sold the machine to. His wife works for the Water Management Dept. out there. I took a quick look at my '07's taxes. It was Rd. 181.

I really hope to make the trip. I also like to scout out old iron. And there's a lot of that laying around out there.

[EricF517]

Carlson was the last name of the guy I sold the machine to. His wife works for the Water Management Dept. out there. I took a quick look at my '07's taxes. It was Rd. 181.

I really hope to make the trip. I also like to scout out old iron. And there's a lot of that laying around out there.

There are lots of things lying around out there. I have seen some SUPER sweet old trucks and cars just sitting on people's property.

[remington226]

Frank over at Snipers Hide just did a review of a Nightforce SHV scope. I believe it was a 4-14x50 mil/mil scope, and I believe it retailed for $1250. Frank gave the scope high praises, and the review impressed me.

I purchased a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x mil/mil scope for one of my AR's a few years ago, and it's still my favorite scope for 0-400ish.

Whatever scope you do decide to go with, I wish you the best of luck, and hope you bag a ton of 'yotes.