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View Full Version : Quality optics shops in Michigan?



Langford
01-10-2016, 06:43 PM
I'm looking for a shop that caries a variety of quality optics (a place that actually has them on a shelf, not the "we can order anything" line that I always get)... I'd like to be able to compare a bunch of scopes side by side before dropping the money on a new setup for a 6.5 creedmoor Ruger precision rifle.


Cabelas used to carry quite a few mid-high end scopes, but now they have very few nightforces and a few low end zeiss and Swarovski scopes, along with the low-mid range offerings from bushnell and vortex, but none of their upper end scopes.


I know Jays Sporting Goods in Clare had a decent selection the last time I was there, so I'll be making the 3 hour drive up in a few weeks.

I was just wondering if there are any other places that I should look into.
Reading about the size differences, weight, turrets, etc. isn't quite the same as fondling a few options side by side.


Thanks in advance

JohnS624
01-11-2016, 11:00 AM
Swarovski makes "low end" scopes?

Langford
01-11-2016, 12:05 PM
Yes, their z3 line, which Cabela's stocks is their low end range of optics. I'm not saying they are cheap...but they lack the features of the long range type of scope I'm looking for, which have 30-35 mm tubes, zero stop, first focal plane, exposed turrets, etc.

I'd like to compare side by side something like the vortex razor gen 2 4.5-27, burris xtrii 5-25, bushnell XRS/HDMR, nightforce atacr, hensoldt zf, Swarovski z6/x5, S&B pmII, etc. I'm not comfortable spending $2000+ on a scope without being able to fondle one first ;).

EricF517
01-11-2016, 12:50 PM
You are not going to find some place like that. I have yet to see a S&B PM on the shelf anywhere. I have seen a Kahles at Oakland Tactical, a XRS, but never at the same time. I have seen Razor Gen II, Stiener, Premier, and NF on the shelf at Jays. Cabelas you are only going to see NF optics. The idea of finding an Hensoldt, S&B PM, or an ATACR is probably not going to be something you are going to see on a shelf here in MI. In MI there is a mentality that 200y on a deer is too far and if you want to shoot 300y you are completely nuts. LR rifle shooting here in MI is a joke and you will be hard pressed to find anything that is geared towards it. Literally Jays, and Oakland Tactical that are the only places that I have found that have anything geared towards LR rifle shooting.

Shyster
01-11-2016, 01:27 PM
Call Michi-Gun in St. Clair Shores they have a decent selection.

Langford
01-11-2016, 03:59 PM
Call Michi-Gun in St. Clair Shores they have a decent selection.

Thanks Shyster, I'll give them a shout to see what they carry. Got word that my rifle should be shipping this week, so time to get the ball rolling on the scope.




You are not going to find some place like that. I have yet to see a S&B PM on the shelf anywhere. I have seen a Kahles at Oakland Tactical, a XRS, but never at the same time. I have seen Razor Gen II, Stiener, Premier, and NF on the shelf at Jays. Cabelas you are only going to see NF optics. The idea of finding an Hensoldt, S&B PM, or an ATACR is probably not going to be something you are going to see on a shelf here in MI. In MI there is a mentality that 200y on a deer is too far and if you want to shoot 300y you are completely nuts. LR rifle shooting here in MI is a joke and you will be hard pressed to find anything that is geared towards it. Literally Jays, and Oakland Tactical that are the only places that I have found that have anything geared towards LR rifle shooting.

That's the same feeling I've got over the last few years. While at Cabelas years ago with a buddy while he was shipping for a decent scope for his 30-06, the "gun expert" behind the counter was exactly the type you described...basically told my buddy he was an idiot for wanting anything beyond a cheap 3-9x40. When I mentioned the last deer I took was over 350 yards out, he looked at me like I was full of $#it. And they were clueless when I had a few questions about the available reticles from nightforce when I ordered my last scope from them.

I was hoping to find a hidden gem somewhere that stocked all of the brands and models I'm looking at, but it doesn't sound like that will be an option locally since the long range game is damn near non existent. Hopefully I find something at Jays or at one of the other mentioned shops and fall in love, because I really don't want to order something online without being able to handle one first.

EricF517
01-11-2016, 11:43 PM
Thanks Shyster, I'll give them a shout to see what they carry. Got word that my rifle should be shipping this week, so time to get the ball rolling on the scope.





That's the same feeling I've got over the last few years. While at Cabelas years ago with a buddy while he was shipping for a decent scope for his 30-06, the "gun expert" behind the counter was exactly the type you described...basically told my buddy he was an idiot for wanting anything beyond a cheap 3-9x40. When I mentioned the last deer I took was over 350 yards out, he looked at me like I was full of $#it. And they were clueless when I had a few questions about the available reticles from nightforce when I ordered my last scope from them.

I was hoping to find a hidden gem somewhere that stocked all of the brands and models I'm looking at, but it doesn't sound like that will be an option locally since the long range game is damn near non existent. Hopefully I find something at Jays or at one of the other mentioned shops and fall in love, because I really don't want to order something online without being able to handle one first.

Well, I think your hidden gem would be going to Mile High Shooting. That or do what I did when I was out working at the sheriff's office in Nebraska, I got ahold of Frank from Sniper's Hide and he brought out about $150,000 in optics and rifles.

Langford
01-12-2016, 06:51 PM
Well, I think your hidden gem would be going to Mile High Shooting. That or do what I did when I was out working at the sheriff's office in Nebraska, I got ahold of Frank from Sniper's Hide and he brought out about $150,000 in optics and rifles.
That would be nice, that guy has all kinds of insane builds. I'm anxious to see what that new vortex teaser is that he just posted.

On that note, I think I've got myself talked into a razor gen II 4.5-27...for what I'm willing to spend, there doesn't seem to be a better option that stands above this one. I hope to find one in stock somewhere to play with first, but I'm not counting on that locally. But I'll be waiting to see what vortex releases at the shot show this week before I pull the trigger on anything.

EricF517
01-12-2016, 07:16 PM
That would be nice, that guy has all kinds of insane builds. I'm anxious to see what that new vortex teaser is that he just posted.

On that note, I think I've got myself talked into a razor gen II 4.5-27...for what I'm willing to spend, there doesn't seem to be a better option that stands above this one. I hope to find one in stock somewhere to play with first, but I'm not counting on that locally. But I'll be waiting to see what vortex releases at the shot show this week before I pull the trigger on anything.

He brought out S&B's, Premiers, USO's, Leupy Mk 6, Razors, NF's, a Tac Ops suppressed 308, AIAX with a Kahles (my personal favorite!!!), SAC 6.5CM, SR25, and a GAP10.

I don't see how you can go wrong with a Razor. They are sweet, the locking turrets, great glass, lighted reticle. Actually the only downside that I can think of is weight. They are HEAVY. Not to mention their no BS warranty. Only place I have seen them in stock was Oakland Tactical, and Jays. Take a look at the XRS or DMR from Bushnell too. Look around on SH as you can run across some screaming deals if you are there at the right time for optics.

musashi
01-12-2016, 09:03 PM
When you really get into high end optics you aren't really going to see any discernible difference in the clarity until you get into less than idea lighting conditions. I THINK Eric will back me up on that. Even then, when you are on the top shelf, I'm not certain the average human will be able to discern the difference.

Now the knobs will be different from manu to Manu but that's a personal preference.

EricF517
01-12-2016, 10:38 PM
When you really get into high end optics you aren't really going to see any discernible difference in the clarity until you get into less than idea lighting conditions. I THINK Eric will back me up on that. Even then, when you are on the top shelf, I'm not certain the average human will be able to discern the difference.

Now the knobs will be different from manu to Manu but that's a personal preference.


Oh I sure will agree with you there. My Leupy gold ring binos and had to use a really old Simmons monocular during hunting season. It was hilarious when I looked through that at failing light, compared to my Razor spotting scope. You also will see a contrast difference.

Good to see you are still alive too Mushy.

Langford
01-22-2016, 06:12 PM
I went back to Cabelas last weekend, the only nightforces they had on the shelf was the shv 4-14, a benchrest model, and an atacr 5.5-22 sfp...none of which I was interested in.


Today, I stopped at Oakland Tactical...nothing geared towards long range, besides a vortex viper PST. The guy helping me asked what type of shooting I was planning on doing, and I told him I'll be cutting in an 800 yard range this spring at my cabin. He handed me a USO 2.5-10, nice scope...but I couldn't imagine being able to do much beside hit a big steel plate at 800 yards with a 10x scope. Not really a precision shooting scope that I'm looking for.

Now I'm at my cabin, which is 30 minutes from Jays in Clare...so I'll be making the trip there tomorrow.

Been doing a ton if reading, and I'm liking what I've read about the new burris xtrii 5-25, supposed to be an amazing scope for the money. I'm also really liking the vortex razor gen ii 4.5-27 from everything I've read and watched... It's within my budget (barely), but it's literally double the price of the burris. Not sure it's worth twice the money for me...and by saving half, that almost puts me half way towards the Schmidt and Bender Polar t96 that I want to order for my deer rifle.

EricF517
01-22-2016, 08:16 PM
Yea there are a lot of good reviews on them. Some guys even compare it to the Razor. The new XTR is going to have a Horus reticle in it!! Thinking of snagging one when I can.

That being said you can't beat a USO. They are bullet proof and have fantastic glass.

Langford
01-23-2016, 01:04 PM
I would have loved to check out some of the higher magnification USO's, but the 2.5-10 was all they had at OakTac.

Just left Jays, I was impressed with their selection...by far the best in the area.

They had a ton of different nightforce scopes, except for the 5-25 atacr f1, which was the one I was really hoping to check out.
The guy that was helping me was fairly knowledgable, but he really liked leupolds...I've always been a fan, but I've read about a lot of tracking issues with them lately, he thought I was crazy when I mentioned that. The 4-24x52 vx6 was pretty nice, but no exposed turrets. Very light weight though, much lighter than any of the others.

They did have a razor gen ii, but it was the 3-18 model...I liked it a lot. Turrets were great, eye relief seemed good, no complaints really. It was heavy, but it's going on a heavy rifle so I don't care.

They didn't carry the burris xtrii unfortunately, so I'm left in the dark about that one.

I looked at some of the Swarovski tactical scopes, but they were out of my budget.

They had the new Steiner scopes, but there have been a lot of issues and complaints about those too.

It was nice being able to actually handle a lot of these scopes side by side, reading about them is one thing...feeling the turret clicks, magnification adjustment and seeing the eye relief is completely different.

So now it's back to the interwebs to do some reading and comparing , I'll order something soon



I mentioned before wanting one of the S&B Polar scopes for my deer rifle, it's between that and the Zeiss Victory HT 3-12x56, both are supposed to be the best and brightest scopes on the market currently. Jays didn't have the S&B, but they did have the zeiss...obviously it was nice and bright in the store, but the scope overall was very nice. 95%+ light transmission on the HT series, and the S&B is supposed to be 96%...which is higher than any others currently available. That won't be until later this spring/summer though.

EricF517
01-23-2016, 05:23 PM
I would have loved to check out some of the higher magnification USO's, but the 2.5-10 was all they had at OakTac.

When I was thinking about going to a USO, the feedback I got is that their higher magnifications were just as clear as the lower ones. When I got to look through one out in Nebraska I would say it was one of the best.

Just left Jays, I was impressed with their selection...by far the best in the area.

They had a ton of different nightforce scopes, except for the 5-25 atacr f1, which was the one I was really hoping to check out.
The guy that was helping me was fairly knowledgable, but he really liked leupolds...I've always been a fan, but I've read about a lot of tracking issues with them lately, he thought I was crazy when I mentioned that. The 4-24x52 vx6 was pretty nice, but no exposed turrets. Very light weight though, much lighter than any of the others.

They did have a razor gen ii, but it was the 3-18 model...I liked it a lot. Turrets were great, eye relief seemed good, no complaints really. It was heavy, but it's going on a heavy rifle so I don't care.

That was the main issue I have with the new Razors. They are like a boat anchor LOL. Glass is awesome!! Check out Vortex's new optic they just came out with at Shot. All American made, supposed to be lighter and somewhat cheaper than the Gen II Razor.

They didn't carry the burris xtrii unfortunately, so I'm left in the dark about that one.

Haven't found one anywhere for sale. Had one on my work LTR when I was out in Nebraska. It was really nice, and thinking about running one on my next rifle with the Horus in it.

I looked at some of the Swarovski tactical scopes, but they were out of my budget.

They had the new Steiner scopes, but there have been a lot of issues and complaints about those too.

It was nice being able to actually handle a lot of these scopes side by side, reading about them is one thing...feeling the turret clicks, magnification adjustment and seeing the eye relief is completely different.

So now it's back to the interwebs to do some reading and comparing , I'll order something soon



I mentioned before wanting one of the S&B Polar scopes for my deer rifle, it's between that and the Zeiss Victory HT 3-12x56, both are supposed to be the best and brightest scopes on the market currently. Jays didn't have the S&B, but they did have the zeiss...obviously it was nice and bright in the store, but the scope overall was very nice. 95%+ light transmission on the HT series, and the S&B is supposed to be 96%...which is higher than any others currently available. That won't be until later this spring/summer though.

I did get to look through the Burris, a USO, a couple of NF, Razor, S&B PM II when I was out in Nebraska. I would have to say it would have been a S&B if money was no object. We ended up running the Burris on the work rifle, which was pretty nice. I have been able to look through the new Bushnell DMR and thinking that it will be a toss up between that and the Burris. Only thing that the Bushnell has over the Burris is the magnification range. I really am liking the idea of 4-30 with it, and again the Horus reticle.

Langford
01-23-2016, 07:20 PM
I've been following all the threads on SH about the vortex AMG, sounds awesome...but won't be available until mid summer. I'll be in the market for a long range scope for my 300wm eventually, so I'll be looking into those once they are in stores.

Cabelas is going to start stocking the 5-25 xtrii, they weren't sure when they'd have it on the shelves...but it showed as a new product, price was $1199.

That Horus reticle is awfully busy looking, never looked at one through a scope...just google images, but it looks busy. I've never really used a mil dot reticle, so this will be a new learning experience for me. My nightforce shv has the moar reticle, and that is taking some getting used to. I'm used to a fine duplex reticle, not much going on.

I had a bushnell elite 6500 4-30 a few years back, which was the predecessor to the newer elite tactical scopes. Great scope, but it didn't have the exposed turrets or any of the features of the newer ones. None of the places I've been to had any in stock...after looking at the nightforce atacr last week at Cabelas, I asked about the bushnell scopes, the guy looked at me half crosseyed and told me bushnell are bottom of the barrel scopes, similar to tasco and Simmons. He couldn't believe I wanted to see a bushnell after fondling a nightforce...lol.



I know it's crazy because I haven't got to see one in person yet, and that's what I've been raving about...but I'm 50/50 split between the burris xtr 5-25 and the razor 4.5-27 right now. The price and reviews of the burris almost have me sold, but playing with the razor today made me really fall in love...I'm just not sure if it's twice the scope, worth twice the price.

EricF517
01-23-2016, 08:32 PM
Here are some good videos to actually be able to see the reticle. Blow them up full screen and HD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_xJ-3NH8JM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedS8gy60Bo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICSX_SOlGew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpqpT0VYgo