Approved Rifle calibers for southern lower peninsula

[fatboy82652]

Has anyone ever seen a list of approved calibers of rifles that are now legal in southern Michigan? I see the dimensional requirements but there has got to be an easier way to identify what is legal! Would love some help!

[DrScaryGuy]

try here
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?339002-List-of-straight-walled-rifle-cartridges&highlight=straight+walled

[DP425]

I wouldn't mind seeing a list either. But, I don't think there are very many modern and/or common , so it might not be of THAT much benefit.


Quick Wiki search on pistol cartridges nets us this... these all fall within the case length requirements, and I believe they are all straight walled (some are belted magnums though)

Actual pistol cartridges (originally intended for pistols)
9mm win mag
.357 Magnum
.357 automag
.360 DW
.357 Remington Maximum
.357 SuperMag
10mm Mag
.401 Powermag
.41 Special
.41 Magnum
.414 Supermag
.44 Special
.44 Magnum
.445 SuperMag
.44 Wildey Magnum
.450 Wildey Magnum
.44 AMP
11.75mm Montenegrin
.45 Winchester Magnum
450 Magnum Express
.454 Casull
.455 SuperMag
.460 SW Mag
.45 Long Colt
.458 Devastator
.480 Ruger
.475 Wildey Magnum
.475 Linebaugh
.475 Linebaugh Long
.50 Action Express
.500 Wyoming Express
.500 JRH
.500 S&W Special
.500 S&W Magnum
.50 Special
.500 Linebaugh
.500 Linebaugh Long

Originally rifle cartridges:
.350 Winchester Self Loading
.351 Winchester Self Loading
.44-40 Winchester
.450 Bushmaster
.45 Raptor
.50 Beowulf
.50-70



If anyone notices an error here, or wants to add to it, I'll keep updating it. But, this is already more wiki time than I wanted to spend! (and it was only about 15-20 min)

[RayMich]

According to the Michigan DNR 2015 Hunting and Trapping Digest (Page 20), the minimum legal case length allowed for straight-walled cartridges in a rifle in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone is 1.16 inches



A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.


The .38 Special case length is 1.155" so it does not meet the minimum case length requirement for use in a rifle in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone.

[DP425]

According to the Michigan DNR 2015 Hunting and Trapping Digest (Page 20), the minimum legal case length allowed for straight-walled cartridges in a rifle in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone is 1.16 inches

The .38 Special case length is 1.155" so it does not meet the minimum case length requirement for use in a rifle in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone.

Thanks, changing it.

Could prob hand load some longer cases though; would have to carry a caliper to field though. Too much work

[DP425]

Anyone received any clarification if they mean the literal interpretation of "straight" as in the case wall does not have any bends or ridges (neck)? Or if they mean parallel as well?

I should think if they intended to exclude tapered cases, they would have said such, rather than simply saying "straight" Tapered cases are after all, sporting straight case walls given the wall from base to case mouth follows a straight line; they just are not parallel.

[Langford]

The beowulf isn't a tapered cartridge, they are straight walled.

[Roundballer]

Anyone received any clarification if they mean the literal interpretation of "straight" as in both sides parallel? Or if they mean straight as in, the case wall does not have any bends or ridges (neck)?
They mean straight as in no formed neck as part of the design. Nowhere in the definition of "straight" is there a requirement of Parallel. Straight is the shortest distance between two points, that is high school geometry. And there are NO cases that have truly parallel walls.


I should think if they intended to exclude tapered cases, they would have said such, rather than simply saying "straight" Tapered cases are after all, sporting straight case walls given the wall from base to case mouth follows a straight line; they just are not parallel.
They triple limited it, I think that they were pretty clear in what would be allowable.

[Ol` Joe]

38-40 is a bottleneck case
Not sure about all the others

[zcolt45]

This is a Knowledge Sharing Directory:

Below is For Illustration Only - as most users are not familiar with cartridge terminology

What does bottle neck look like and how many styles are there?

link: 38x40 (https://www.google.com/#q=.38-40+ammo) and Bottleneck Cartridges (https://www.google.com/#q=bottleneck+cartridges)

...

[DP425]

38-40 is a bottleneck case
Not sure about all the others

Updated!

Like I said, I didn't get too intensive with this, so there were bound to be a couple that slipped through the cracks.

[balrog006]

Has anyone ever seen a list of approved calibers of rifles that are now legal in southern Michigan? I see the dimensional requirements but there has got to be an easier way to identify what is legal! Would love some help!

The law and the DNR won't publish a list, they have made it the responsibility of the hunter to determine if theyre complying with the statute. That way if the CO or the DNR decide something fits or dosent fit the law they can always change their minds later and make criminals of those who fully intend and try honestly to comply with the law.

[DP425]

The law and the DNR won't publish a list, they have made it the responsibility of the hunter to determine if theyre complying with the statute. That way if the CO or the DNR decide something fits or dosent fit the law they can always change their minds later and make criminals of those who fully intend and try honestly to comply with the law.

It's pretty clear; .35 caliber and larger, case length of 1.16"-1.8". There is no ambiguity for them to "change their minds later and make criminals of those who fully intend and try..."

[josey wales]

It's pretty clear; .35 caliber and larger, case length of 1.6"-1.8". There is no ambiguity for them to "change their minds later and make criminals of those who fully intend and try..."

Case length of 1.16" - 1.8"

[DP425]

Thanks, left out the 1.

[balrog006]

It's pretty clear; .35 caliber and larger, case length of 1.16"-1.8". There is no ambiguity for them to "change their minds later and make criminals of those who fully intend and try..."

So your expecting the same folks who violated preemption by trying to say we couldn't CC while hunting to get this right and or not twist or contort the interpretation to suit their ideals?


Regardless, I wasn't speaking to that-I was referring to them intentionally not publishing a list so they could claim a specific caliber wasn't on it. They can't and won't keep up with all the custom guns, full wildcat and pseudo wildcatting going on with shortening caliber a like .444, etc.

I've said it before, no CO in the field is going to give a hunter any benefit of doubt when it comes to this, if the CO even thinks whatever your using based on the brass or the guns marked caliber and they have a mind to cite you, they will and let you sort it out with the court.

[DP425]

So your expecting the same folks who violated preemption by trying to say we couldn't CC while hunting to get this right and or not twist or contort the interpretation to suit their ideals?


Regardless, I wasn't speaking to that-I was referring to them intentionally not publishing a list so they could claim a specific caliber wasn't on it. They can't and won't keep up with all the custom guns, full wildcat and pseudo wildcatting going on with shortening caliber a like .444, etc.

I've said it before, no CO in the field is going to give a hunter any benefit of doubt when it comes to this, if the CO even thinks whatever your using based on the brass or the guns marked caliber and they have a mind to cite you, they will and let you sort it out with the court.

Carry a caliper to the field with a copy of the rule then. If he still writes a ticket, file a complaint. I haven't had many interactions with COs; actually, never in the field, only through work. The ones I've been around though did not strike me as the kind to be hostile or ignorant.

[balrog006]

Carry a caliper to the field with a copy of the rule then. If he still writes a ticket, file a complaint. I haven't had many interactions with COs; actually, never in the field, only through work. The ones I've been around though did not strike me as the kind to be hostile or ignorant.

Might work for you, good luck with it. There still isn't a list they're going to publish.

Complaint or no, problem is if they choose to cite you or they're ordered to do so by higher ups to prove a point to whomever the burden is on you to prove your innocence at your cost. A caliper and a copy of the rule would be like trying to get out of a speeding ticket with your own radar gun and the MCL, I doubt the officer would take kindly to you trying to prove him wrong.

[DP425]

Might work for you, good luck with it. There still isn't a list they're going to publish.

Complaint or no, problem is if they choose to cite you or they're ordered to do so by higher ups to prove a point to whomever the burden is on you to prove your innocence at your cost. A caliper and a copy of the rule would be like trying to get out of a speeding ticket with your own radar gun and the MCL, I doubt the officer would take kindly to you trying to prove him wrong.


Okay, I see your point...

Now answer this one question-
How often has similar things happened with pistols? I think you're getting worked up about a non-existent issue.


And think of it like this; if they publish a list, what happens to the guys using a wildcat? Some COs will interpret the list as the definitive list of authorized cartridges, just as LE tried to do with the list of approved places you can transport your firearm to.

Without a list, there is no ambiguity or potential for misunderstanding. .35 or larger, 1.16-1.8. Clear, concise, and without ambiguity. Toss a list into the mix and all bets are off.

[balrog006]

Okay, I see your point...

Now answer this one question-
How often has similar things happened with pistols? I think you're getting worked up about a non-existent issue.


And think of it like this; if they publish a list, what happens to the guys using a wildcat? Some COs will interpret the list as the definitive list of authorized cartridges, just as LE tried to do with the list of approved places you can transport your firearm to.

Without a list, there is no ambiguity or potential for misunderstanding. .35 or larger, 1.16-1.8. Clear, concise, and without ambiguity. Toss a list into the mix and all bets are off.

That's exactly my point though, a list could never hope to cover all the possibilities out there, if they or the legislation intended to just list specific items they would have-the ambiguity comes in the interpretation of weather or not a specific cartridge meets the back and white definition. I wouldn't call it getting worked up, just that I'm trying to impress on anyone who reads the thread that the responsibility for compliance with the rule lies with the hunter and to expect no favors from anyone in a position to enforce it.

I'll concede to your example/question about pistol hunting-I have no idea how many times people have gone astray of those rules and gotten caught at it; though I don't really think it's a valid comparison as the actual number of hunters using pistols pales in comparison to those hunting under the new rule.

[JimA]

The .357-45 GWM, .357/44 Bain & Davis and the 44-40 would all be out as they all have shoulders.

[DP425]

The .357-45 GWM, .357/44 Bain & Davis and the 44-40 would all be out as they all have shoulders.

Removed .357-45 GWM, .357/44 Bain & Davis, and .44-40 WCF