HB 5301,5302,5303,5304 Repeal of certain provisions regarding firearms

[Tallbear]

HB 5301 of 2016
Weapons; firearms; certain provisions regarding weapons; repeal. Amends secs. 227, 227b, 230 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.227 et seq.) & repeals secs. 227a & 231a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.227a & 750.231a).
Last Action: 2/3/2016 bill electronically reproduced 02/02/2016
HB 5302 of 2016
Weapons; firearms; 1927 PA 372; update references. Amends secs. 12 & 15 of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.432 & 28.435). TIE BAR WITH: HB 5301'16
Last Action: 2/3/2016 bill electronically reproduced 02/02/2016
HB 5303 of 2016
Weapons; firearms; natural resources and environmental protection act; update references. Amends sec. 43510 of 1994 PA 451 (MCL 324.43510). TIE BAR WITH: HB 5301'16
Last Action: 2/3/2016 bill electronically reproduced 02/02/2016
HB 5304 of 2016
Weapons; firearms; sentencing guidelines; update. Amends sec. 12, ch. II & sec. 16m, ch. XVII of 1927 PA 175 (MCL 762.12 & 777.16m). TIE BAR WITH: HB 5301'16
Last Action: 2/3/2016 bill electronically reproduced 02/02/2016

[Divegeek]

Looks good to me. The only complaints are it only applies to pistols, and doesn't change the gun free criminal empowerment zones, but that is probably on purpose so as to make it more palatable for some of the bed wetters.

[G36 Shooter]

Looks good to me. The only complaints are it only applies to pistols, and doesn't change the gun free criminal empowerment zones, but that is probably on purpose so as to make it more palatable for some of the bed wetters.
You would still need your CPL to OC in the cPFZ's

[luckless]

I can't see any downside to these. How refreshing!

[jmonarch]

I can't see any downside to these. How refreshing!

Just wait 'til they are done with them...

[rightchoice269]

Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!

[rightchoice269]

Just wait 'til they are done with them...


Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!

[rightchoice269]

Hello,
Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!

[rightchoice269]

Hi,

Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!

[Roundballer]

Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!


Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!


Hello,
Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!


Hi,

Call your local House Rep (517)-373-6339 And your Senator (517)-373-2400 and Ask Them To Support HB 5301- HB 5304 Then ASK your friends and Family to do the same. Lets take our rights back.....Huge win for the second,,BUT most House Bills (about 90%) don't make it passed this stage in the process, so its a must that we act now!!!!!

Who are you? Please tell us why you think that this is a bill worthy of our support.

So far (in other venues) this is being touted as "constitutional carry" which it is not. None of 28.425(all) is being changed. You are very new here, I have quoted all four of your posts up to this point

Tell us WHY we should support it.

[Ra's al Ghul]

While it's not what I would prefer (true constitutional carry) it still is a small step in the right direction. I'd be all for it if they don't hack it up too badly on its way through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roundballer]

There are some definite problems with these bills that will make them fail.

Things like "implied consent" and "duty to inform" are tied to the possession, or licensing with a CPL. Those provisions would not apply without the CPL, and there would also be issues between the PFZs and CPFZs.

[Leader]

There are some definite problems with these bills that will make them fail.

Things like "implied consent" and "duty to inform" are tied to the possession, or licensing with a CPL. Those provisions would not apply without the CPL, and there would also be issues between the PFZs and CPFZs.

I don't see "implied consent" or "duty to inform" as a problem, I would just let my CPL expire and no longer be be covered by those portions of the law.
Duty to inform makes no one safer and is used to take rights away from and punish people that are willing to protect themselves & others when the police can not.
Most people think the issue between PFZ's & CPFZ's doesn't make sense now anyway.

[dwcopple]

From what I am hearing, it would do away with the ridiculous required NRA course before applying for a CPL. That would be a HUGE bonus for people. My wife would get hers I know as would many of my friends/relatives that don't want to pay $125+ to sit in a class for 8 hours covering stuff they already know.

[Roundballer]

From what I am hearing, it would do away with the ridiculous required NRA course before applying for a CPL. That would be a HUGE bonus for people. My wife would get hers I know as would many of my friends/relatives that don't want to pay $125+ to sit in a class for 8 hours covering stuff they already know.
Nope, There is nothing in these bills that change any of the sections of 28.425(?)...

These bills mostly change carrying in a vehicle (handgun only) with leaving CC mostly in the same boat as OC, yet leaving all of the license regulations in place with no requirement to follow them for regular CC.

[rightchoice269]

Hello RoundBAller, Thanks for the reply to my postings. So I support HB5301 bill because as I understand it would remove the requirement but not the ability to obtain a CPL in order to carry a legally owned pistol in Michigan. What do you mean its not a constitutional carry bill? How do you feel about it? and Why? Do you teach the firearm training class required to file for a CPL, By chance? (I ask this question of everyone I speak with about this bill, helps to figure out there motives)

[rightchoice269]

All Michigan Gun owners should be supporting this BILL. Why do we have to ask for and Pay for a SO called right??? Lets make it a right again!!!!

[rightchoice269]

What Bill are you talking about?? HB 5301-5304 (2016) Will make carrying legal without a permit. I call that constitutional carry. Do you?

[AxlMyk]

'rightchoice269'
I think the bigger question here is why you had to register for the forum, then spam it 4 times out of your total 7 posts. 3 of which are just above my post.

[Roundballer]

Hello RoundBAller, Thanks for the reply to my postings. So I support HB5301 bill because as I understand it would remove the requirement but not the ability to obtain a CPL in order to carry a legally owned pistol in Michigan. What do you mean its not a constitutional carry bill? How do you feel about it? and Why? Do you teach the firearm training class required to file for a CPL, By chance? (I ask this question of everyone I speak with about this bill, helps to figure out there motives)


All Michigan Gun owners should be supporting this BILL. Why do we have to ask for and Pay for a SO called right??? Lets make it a right again!!!!


What Bill are you talking about?? HB 5301-5304 (2016) Will make carrying legal without a permit. I call that constitutional carry. Do you?

First, these bills have a GREAT intent, but an absolutely IGNORANT implementation. And because of the way they are written, they will never get out of committee. They delete the definition of "antique firearm" and that affects firearm registrations, not good.
There are the issues with disclosure and implied consent that I already mentioned.
"Constitutional Carry" would allow ALL firearms, not just Michigan's idiot definition of "pistol"

We should support GOOD bills, not just the ones that are hastily submitted at the beginning of the campaign season of an election year.

And NO, I do not have a financial interest in not supporting this. I do not teach CPL classes.

Try quoting what you are responding to. Then we will know who you are asking questions of.

PS, Open carry IS legal (without a permit).

[rightchoice269]

First, these bills have a GREAT intent, but an absolutely IGNORANT implementation. And because of the way they are written, they will never get out of committee. They delete the definition of "antique firearm" and that affects firearm registrations, not good.
There are the issues with disclosure and implied consent that I already mentioned.
"Constitutional Carry" would allow ALL firearms, not just Michigan's idiot definition of "pistol"

We should support GOOD bills, not just the ones that are hastily submitted at the beginning of the campaign season of an election year.

And NO, I do not have a financial interest in not supporting this. I do not teach CPL classes.

Try quoting what you are responding to. Then we will know who you are asking questions of.

PS, Open carry IS legal (without a permit).



Open carry, yea until you get in your vehicle then your concealed. I would have to unload, store ammo separate, get to destination, reload, holster, open carry......and so on. That's silly.

I hope your wrong about the bill, I'm afraid you could be right. I have heard many say it is a good bill. But we should promote it no matter what. My opinion.

[rightchoice269]

'rightchoice269'
I think the bigger question here is why you had to register for the forum, then spam it 4 times out of your total 7 posts. 3 of which are just above my post.

I registered to spread the word about this bill. I posted replies to several posts, before knowing how to use quotes.

[Leader]

Open carry, yea until you get in your vehicle then your concealed. I would have to unload, store ammo separate, get to destination, reload, holster, open carry......and so on. That's silly.

I hope your wrong about the bill, I'm afraid you could be right. I have heard many say it is a good bill. But we should promote it no matter what. My opinion.

I'll skip the small stuff & ask if you have even read this bill?

[Ranger67]

Why are some MGO members against ( HB 5301-HB 5304 )?

The National Association for Gun Rights is sending out e-mails to its Michigan members to call the members of the House Judiciary Committee to urge the committee to hold a hearing and vote on the Michigan Constitutional Carry bill package (HB 5301-HB 5304). Why are MGO members not getting behind this bill?

[wizzi01]

Why are some MGO members against ( HB 5301-HB 5304 )?

The National Association for Gun Rights is sending out e-mails to its Michigan members to call the members of the House Judiciary Committee to urge the committee to hold a hearing and vote on the Michigan Constitutional Carry bill package (HB 5301-HB 5304). Why are MGO members not getting behind this bill?

You actually use NAGR as a baseline for something good?

[luckless]

I can't think of the last, good pro gun legislation to escape the judiciary committee without being gutted, filleted and scrambled.

[Roundballer]

Why are some MGO members against ( HB 5301-HB 5304 )?

The National Association for Gun Rights is sending out e-mails to its Michigan members to call the members of the House Judiciary Committee to urge the committee to hold a hearing and vote on the Michigan Constitutional Carry bill package (HB 5301-HB 5304). Why are MGO members not getting behind this bill?
Have YOU read the bills? I mean personally read the text of what is proposed? If you haven't, then please do so now.

2016-HB-5301 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5301)
2016-HB-5302 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5302)
2016-HB-5303 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5303)
2016-HB-5304 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5304)

As I posted before, I believe these to be poorly thought out, and poorly written.

[RDak]

I can't think of the last, good pro gun legislation to escape the judiciary committee without being gutted, filleted and scrambled.

I can't either.

[Snowy.vtwin]

Have YOU read the bills? I mean personally read the text of what is proposed? If you haven't, then please do so now.

2016-HB-5301 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5301)
2016-HB-5302 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5302)
2016-HB-5303 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5303)
2016-HB-5304 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5304)

As I posted before, I believe these to be poorly thought out, and poorly written.

"(d) "Weapon" includes, but is not limited to, a pneumatic gun."

This would include the grandkids $18 Crossman airsoft pistol....????

[JasonJ]

"(d) "Weapon" includes, but is not limited to, a pneumatic gun."

This would include the grandkids $18 Crossman airsoft pistol....????

That is how I would interpret it. And I think the courts would too. A "gun" or "gun-like" object that propels a projectile with the use of compressed air. You might be safe(er) with those weak spring powered BB guns.. but CO2 powered, or otherwise, would fall under this legislation.

[clinta]

Have YOU read the bills? I mean personally read the text of what is proposed? If you haven't, then please do so now.

2016-HB-5301 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5301)
2016-HB-5302 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5302)
2016-HB-5303 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5303)
2016-HB-5304 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2016-HB-5304)

As I posted before, I believe these to be poorly thought out, and poorly written.

So I've just read them and am struggling to formulate an informed opinion on them. What does the removal of the definition of antique actually change?

Would the passing of these bills over all make gun owners more or less free? It seems to me that it would make them more free. Certainly they could be better, but I have trouble seeing how these are not a step in the right direction.

[Roundballer]

So I've just read them and am struggling to formulate an informed opinion on them. What does the removal of the definition of antique actually change?

Would the passing of these bills over all make gun owners more or less free? It seems to me that it would make them more free. Certainly they could be better, but I have trouble seeing how these are not a step in the right direction.
Because of all of the places where an antique firearms is exempted, but not amended by this bill, like from registration. Without a definition of what "antique" is, how do we have a leg to stand on?

Overall, I believe it to be neutral, but poorly written and implemented. It could lead people into trouble.