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shifty_85
02-23-2016, 01:03 AM
Picking up a polytech M-14 soon. As i have my AR-10 with a tasco 3-9X scope it does well at 3gun 50-200 yards no prob with the right ammo and me doing my part.

So i want to get into the 500+ range of shooting looking to go 500-1000ish *depending if i can even find a place to take 1,000 yard shot maybe a trip up north*

Now dont laugh * i know your going to* but i was looking around last night and found these scopes as ive said i have a tasco world class on my AR-10 and use it in 3 gun and ive zeroed it once in about 6 shots and ive never adjusted the sights again ive ran it in about 5 3guns and my buddy has taken it hunting and hit 2 does in the heart at 50 yards no prob. so i know they are cheap but so far its holding up to the beating of the .308 and run and gun...

Also i use a UTG 1-4X on my Saiga 12 so again i know they are not the best out there but same thing i zeroed it once and slugs i can shoot a quarter group at 50 yards

Was wondering what kind of power id need to see decent at 500-1000? the 9X is good for 200 with my eye sight and about a 6" target i seem to have no trouble on.

And i know the mount and rings play a huge roll to so if you can recommend those too.

here are a few just high power scopes i am far from picking one but

UTG 24 power

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-6-24X50-Hunter-36-color-Mil-dot/dp/B00LNKUJ5W/ref=sr_1_1?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1456115299&sr=1-1&keywords=UTG+scope&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A5965668011

UTG 32 power

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-8-32X56-Scope-36-color-Mil-dot/dp/B00BCOZ2AQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1456115628&sr=1-1&keywords=UTG+scope&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A5965672011

and the best deal if its not blurry and can adjust good and hold zero would be awesome if not im out 100 bucks??

http://www.amazon.com/Tasco-Target-Varmint-10-40x50mm-Riflescope/dp/B0000A0AHV/ref=sr_1_11?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1456115674&sr=1-11&keywords=tasco+scope

Thanks all. feel free to flame me on the cheap scopes but as i said ive had nothing but good luck with my tasco on my AR-10 and my UTG on my Saiga-12

DP425
02-23-2016, 01:59 AM
First point I'd like to make... that AR10 is likely to be a good bit more accurate than the M1A/M14. It costs a fortune to get equal accuracy with an M1A.

As far as optics are concerned, skip that 32x; the upper 1/3 will likely be all but un-usable. You just are not getting glass of high enough quality to be able to effectively use 32x. I would guess that you'll be lucky to pull 21x with usable clarity. Only gets worse in the summer with mirage. I'm guessing you'll see similar performance from the 24x as well. The 1" tube on the 24X is going to limit the elevation available. That could potentially make the scope un-usable for dialing dope at 1k. And that is assuming these optics have reliable and accurate adjustments anyway.

I'd like to encourage you to look at some better brand optics in a lower power range. You don't need a ton of power to shoot LR. 10-15x is enough for 1k. If the glass will support more magnification, it shouldn't hurt, but in your price range, you will not find that. If you're willing to go fixed power, you can get SWFA SuperSniper scopes for about $300; these will absolutely blow away those UTG scopes; in every single regard.

Burris MTAC and AR series are pretty good and sub $400.

Bushnell LRS 5-15x 40mm SFP (ET5154) comes in just north of $450

Or grab yourself a Weaver GrandSlam from midway for $300 (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598484/weaver-tactical-grand-slam-rifle-scope-3-10x-40mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte)




There are options in the $400 and down range, but there are NO good options in that range, with a power over 15-16x.

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 10:01 AM
Yes thanks for the input I was reading a few reviews on the 32 and 40 power that said after about 25 power it was very fuzzy and unclear. others said they were very clean.

really the AR-10 will be more accurate than the M-14? Didn't think that. maybe ill have to switch them up and run the M14 in 3gun and use the AR-10 long range.

ill see how the M14 is at 100 with irons and go from there. maybe get a scope mount and put the one from the AR-10 on it and base my choice on that.

EricF517
02-23-2016, 01:52 PM
Yes thanks for the input I was reading a few reviews on the 32 and 40 power that said after about 25 power it was very fuzzy and unclear. others said they were very clean.

really the AR-10 will be more accurate than the M-14? Didn't think that. maybe ill have to switch them up and run the M14 in 3gun and use the AR-10 long range.

ill see how the M14 is at 100 with irons and go from there. maybe get a scope mount and put the one from the AR-10 on it and base my choice on that.

If it were me, I would sell off the M14, take that money, buy a 4-30 Bushnell XTR, get a 45* mount for a Bushnell or Burris red dot and voila. You have a 3 gun rifle capable of going long range and you don't have to change anything. You can find a 4-30 on SnipersHide for around $900-1100 used.

kbdm
02-23-2016, 03:11 PM
How can you not love the look of the M1A, it's just such a classic rifle. But yeah, just about any decent quality .308 ar will outperform it out of the box.

ncs
02-23-2016, 03:20 PM
Hey Shifty,

I was thinking of getting one of these with quick detach mount so I could swap it between rifles.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/leatherwood-hi-lux-6-24x44mm-rifle-scope?a=1803786

It's inexpensive and highly rated. It may get fuzzy at high zoom but you can back it off if it is too bad. I like to use them as a spotting scope.

DP425
02-23-2016, 03:29 PM
If it were me, I would sell off the M14, take that money, buy a 4-30 Bushnell XTR, get a 45* mount for a Bushnell or Burris red dot and voila. You have a 3 gun rifle capable of going long range and you don't have to change anything. You can find a 4-30 on SnipersHide for around $900-1100 used.

If you're willing to part with the M14... Go this route

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 05:01 PM
id rather have one decicated for one and the other for the other.

ive always wanted an M14 or M1A love the classic look wood and steel has always looked better to me than plastic. just me.

I thought with the longer barrel the M14 would out do the AR-10 in the accurate department oh well ill run it at 3 gun if not.

thanks for all the input guys.

EricF517
02-23-2016, 06:04 PM
id rather have one decicated for one and the other for the other.

ive always wanted an M14 or M1A love the classic look wood and steel has always looked better to me than plastic. just me.

I thought with the longer barrel the M14 would out do the AR-10 in the accurate department oh well ill run it at 3 gun if not.

thanks for all the input guys.

Barrel length will do 0 for accuracy of a rifle. The only thing you will gain is speed. Just remember the mantra of "be scared of the man with the ugly rifle as it is well used."

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 07:02 PM
None of my rifles are ugly...well the .303 that was in a fire is kind of but it adds to the cool factor.

ive seen the one "Do not fear the man with many guns. Fear the man with 1 for he probably knows how to use it very well"

yeah ill have to just shoot them side by side a few times and see what i get out of match grade ammo and base it on that. i have no prob running either in 3 gun or either as a long range rifle

Rootsy
02-23-2016, 07:08 PM
There is a reason why competitive full course and LR M1A's cost about as much as a good used compact car. There are people out there that have dedicated their lives to making them shoot, consistently. They can be a fickle high maintenance mistress.

There are still a number of people who shoot them very well at 600-1000 yards, with irons...

Mkc451
02-23-2016, 07:38 PM
There is a reason why competitive full course and LR M1A's cost about as much as a good used compact car. There are people out there that have dedicated their lives to making them shoot, consistently. They can be a fickle high maintenance mistress.

There are still a number of people who shoot them very well at 600-1000 yards, with irons...

Amen to that, while shooting my 204 at the range, watched a couple of older(well older than me:lol: )gentleman @ 500yds pound a 12" steel plate with a M1A & a .303 Enfield, both w/iron sights. I was up to hitting it with my savage .204/Zeiss Conquest varmint combo. Pride demanded I to show them I could hit it too ya know, but they made a "lot" more noise when they hit. I it wasn't for my spotting scope & some spare paint, I couldn't have confirmed my hits by just the sound.

Rootsy
02-23-2016, 08:13 PM
Amen to that, while shooting my 204 at the range, watched a couple of older(well older than me:lol: )gentleman @ 500yds pound a 12" steel plate with a M1A & a .303 Enfield, both w/iron sights. I was up to hitting it with my savage .204/Zeiss Conquest varmint combo. Pride demanded I to show them I could hit it too ya know, but they made a "lot" more noise when they hit. I it wasn't for my spotting scope & some spare paint, I couldn't have confirmed my hits by just the sound.

Springfield Armory sponsors a M1A match at Camp Perry during the National Matches each year. Generally held at the end of CMP National Trophy week / Beginning of NRA HP week.

The match is a M1A only match with all stages fired from 300 yards on the SR3 target (X ring = 3", 10 ring = 7").

5 sighters + 20 slow prone in 25 minutes
10 rapid sitting or kneeling in 60 seconds (with reload)
10 rapid prone in 70 seconds (with reload)
10 slow fire standing, unsupported, in 10 minutes.

This match is fired with iron sights. Prone and sitting use a sling for support.

Last year a Michigander won the match and set a new national record firing a 491-12x (500-50x maximum score).

Who needs a 30 bazillion power scope....

BTW, this match is open to anyone who wants to compete in it. Top civilian prize is $2000.

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 08:24 PM
Springfield Armory sponsors a M1A match at Camp Perry during the National Matches each year. Generally held at the end of CMP National Trophy week / Beginning of NRA HP week.

The match is a M1A only match with all stages fired from 300 yards on the SR3 target (X ring = 3", 10 ring = 6").

5 sighters + 20 slow prone in 25 minutes
10 rapid sitting or kneeling in 60 seconds (with reload)
10 rapid prone in 70 seconds (with reload)
10 slow fire standing, unsupported, in 10 minutes.

This match is fired with iron sights. Prone and sitting use a sling for support.

Last year a Michigander won the match and set a new national record firing a 491-12x (500-50x maximum score).

Who needs a 30 bazillion power scope....

BTW, this match is open to anyone who wants to compete in it. Top civilian prize is $2000.

i may have to get good with iron sights....Is any ammo able to be used? IE Match grade?? 2,000 bucks for shooting good would be nice.

i know the old battle rifles can be very accurate iron sights. a nice piece of glass makes it much easier thoe.

ive watched guys ring steel at 800 yards with a M91/30 and 7N6 ammo.

with surplus ammo and my M91/30 i hit 8 clays at 250 yards standing off hand with surplus ammo fired about 18 shots. most hit around the clay in the general area. but standing off hand with a 9lbs rifle not the best for taking longer shots lol.

i have never been a fan of Ghost ring rear sights on rifles i normally like the notch and blade type but the M1/ M14 sights the ring is much tighter ill shoot it a bit iron sights before i go scoped.

i know ammo plays a huge roll in taking a 600-1000 yards. i have a dillion 550 and roll my own .308 i have 500 175Gr Serra match kings waiting to go waaaaay down range

Rootsy
02-23-2016, 08:46 PM
i may have to get good with iron sights....Is any ammo able to be used? IE Match grade?? 2,000 bucks for shooting good would be nice.

i know the old battle rifles can be very accurate iron sights. a nice piece of glass makes it much easier thoe.

ive watched guys ring steel at 800 yards with a M91/30 and 7N6 ammo.

with surplus ammo and my M91/30 i hit 8 clays at 250 yards standing off hand with surplus ammo fired about 18 shots. most hit around the clay in the general area. but standing off hand with a 9lbs rifle not the best for taking longer shots lol.

i have never been a fan of Ghost ring rear sights on rifles i normally like the notch and blade type but the M1/ M14 sights the ring is much tighter ill shoot it a bit iron sights before i go scoped.

i know ammo plays a huge roll in taking a 600-1000 yards. i have a dillion 550 and roll my own .308 i have 500 175Gr Serra match kings waiting to go waaaaay down range

Yes Shifty, you can use your own ammo, most do.

Aperture sights are superior to post and notch.

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 08:55 PM
Yes Shifty, you can use your own ammo, most do.

Aperture sights are superior to post and notch.

Just need to get used to them.

i was doing a little reading on that M1 match. they said that to win any awards you need to use an M1A. unless i found the wrong match.

im sure the 175 gr Match kings will do just fine at 300 yards.

Rootsy
02-23-2016, 08:57 PM
Just need to get used to them.

i was doing a little reading on that M1 match. they said that to win any awards you need to use an M1A. unless i found the wrong match.

im sure the 175 gr Match kings will do just fine at 300 yards.

Yes it is a M1A match. Everyone fires a M1A.

At 300 I would be loading 135 Sierras with reduced charges for less recoil.

shifty_85
02-23-2016, 09:00 PM
Yes it is a M1A match. Everyone fires a M1A.

At 300 I would be loading 135 Sierras with reduced charges for less recoil.

Oh so the M14 i could not win any awards with if i went?

i dont mind recoil. i already have the 175gr match kings. never loaded any .308 under 150 gr's yet at least im sure ill get into it with lighter ammo at some point and make a good long range load. but im sure the 175's will fly like all the other SMKs very very straight

Rootsy
02-23-2016, 09:03 PM
Oh so the M14 i could not win any awards with if i went?

i dont mind recoil. i already have the 175gr match kings. never loaded any .308 under 150 gr's yet at least im sure ill get into it with lighter ammo at some point and make a good long range load. but im sure the 175's will fly like all the other SMKs very very straight

M1A is the civilian semi auto form of the M14. I am sure there are rule provisions that say a M14 must be fired semi auto.

shifty_85
02-24-2016, 06:25 PM
M1A is the civilian semi auto form of the M14. I am sure there are rule provisions that say a M14 must be fired semi auto.

it is a semi auto M14.

i cant see full auto helping at all in an accuracy match at 300 yards lol.

ill ask them thanks for all the info

kbdm
02-24-2016, 06:36 PM
Be gentle boys.

Shifty, if it is not full auto capable, it is an M1A. "M14" is the military designation and would cost a small fortune to buy one.

When someone says "M14" people assume they are talking about the military full auto capable rifle.

Hope it helps.

ETA: Oops. Almost forgot, Springfield Armory owns the rights to the "M1A" name, so other companies that sell semi auto clones do call them M14s.

shifty_85
02-24-2016, 11:11 PM
Sorry just going off what the add and box says on it.

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?342283-Polytech-M14S-Used-Livonia-1100&highlight=

Ah gotcha on the name of them. a true M14 would be nice but i have seen videos of them in full auto they look like a bit to hold onto lol. and i dont have 15,000+ to spend on a gun haha

humm not to bad.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=543812676

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=544009717

Thanks again for all the info. cant wait to shoot it hope to get half way good with it irons and maybe ill take a drive to camp perry

shifty_85
03-12-2016, 12:25 AM
i now own a polytech M14s :) i can now see after playing with the rear sight why the irons will do just fine at longer ranges it is very adjustable and easy to do. i plan on taking it in april to BWSA to see what i can do with iron sights and Match ammo.

Thanks again for all the info hope i can shoot well and make the M1A match and maybe win money ha

Rootsy
03-12-2016, 04:36 AM
Sling up and show us how it's done...

04JRB
03-14-2016, 06:37 AM
i now own a polytech M14s :) i can now see after playing with the rear sight why the irons will do just fine at longer ranges it is very adjustable and easy to do. i plan on taking it in april to BWSA to see what i can do with iron sights and Match ammo.

Thanks again for all the info hope i can shoot well and make the M1A match and maybe win money ha

Im sure there will be a great variety of glass on the line at BWSA 4-9 if you go, Im fairly sure that most guys would let you look through their glass as they are a great bunch of guys there.

I know I wouldn't have any issues, if you wanted to. Although I run just about the bare minimum amount invested, a true budget entry, lol. There are some guys there with some VERY nice equipment though, USO, NF, SB, Razors, and more Im sure.

shifty_85
03-14-2016, 10:06 PM
Im sure there will be a great variety of glass on the line at BWSA 4-9 if you go, Im fairly sure that most guys would let you look through their glass as they are a great bunch of guys there.

I know I wouldn't have any issues, if you wanted to. Although I run just about the bare minimum amount invested, a true budget entry, lol. There are some guys there with some VERY nice equipment though, USO, NF, SB, Razors, and more Im sure.

yes as i said early in the thread i have had good luck with cheap glass so far. UTG on my Saiga 12 works great and the tasco world class 3-9 on my AR-10 holds 0 at 100 even after 3 gun and huntin trips.

i have shot a buddys with a nikon man that was good glass. never used pricy glass before. just wish the one on my AR-10 had mil dots

04JRB
03-15-2016, 07:11 AM
I totally understand shifty, I have only used budget optics up until recently. I have had really good luck with most of them, but I never demanded ranging, repeatability, and clarity to see a 6" piece of steel at 600yds, lol. I am definitely not an optics snob, but I am seeing the light on why some of these optics are $2k+++ and why they cost what they do. Once I got an opportunity to take a peep through some USO, S&B, NF, Razors and one Kahles, the difference was amazing.

I look forward to seeing you out there, you are going to have a TON of fun. Even working the target pit was enjoyable, it is a really good group of shooters to be around!

EricF517
03-15-2016, 09:05 AM
Once I got an opportunity to take a peep through some USO, S&B, NF, Razors and one Kahles, the difference was amazing.

I learned the hard way, if you aren't going to have the $ anytime soon, don't look through them. I looked through a March 10-50 years ago and am still wanting one.

I look forward to seeing you out there, you are going to have a TON of fun. Even working the target pit was enjoyable, it is a really good group of shooters to be around!

Hopefully I will be able to shoot here soon this season with my own rifle. The 6.5 AR10 is getting there!!

shifty_85
03-19-2016, 12:20 PM
picked up a Barska scope 6x24x42 was on sale at dunhams for 100 bucks. bought a set of 1" scope rings for 40. she ran my email and somehow a coupon got it down to 118 total with rings and the scope. i was happy. on 24 power i saw a bird at 300 yards looked like it was 10 feet in front of me and when i adjusted the paralax it looked crystal clear. had to take the top handguard off of my AR-10 the lens is a little to big lol. need a set of risers. but it should see 600-1000 just fine. 1/8" adjustment per click at 100 yards.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/20160319_120542_zpsi8og7cnz.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/shifty_85/media/20160319_120542_zpsi8og7cnz.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/shifty_85/20160319_123048_zpsdrzehbq9.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/shifty_85/media/20160319_123048_zpsdrzehbq9.jpg.html)

EricF517
03-19-2016, 01:23 PM
Good to hear man. Hopefully it serves you well for a while!! You need some higher rings !!! LOL

ltdave
03-19-2016, 02:13 PM
Shifty and Rootsy....

i believe the misunderstanding on M1A/M14 and being eligilble for winning is thus:

the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY INC. semi-auto variant of the M14 is an M1A...

not all semi-auto commercial models that look like an M14 are M1As...

my Fulton Armory "M1A" is marked "M14"...

at one point (i dont know if its still the case) Springfield Armory Inc sponsors the match and at one point stipulated ONLY and SAI "M1A" rifle could be the winner...