MGO/MOC members told to disarm in Grand Rapids

[dmd7765]

MGO & MOC where both told to disarm by the Devos Place management company (SMG). Devos Place is owned by the CAA (Kent County/City of Grand Rapids authority. Clearly and infringement of our rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment and Article 1, Section 6 of the Michigan Constitution. HB4795 will put teeth in preemption. Please call your representatives and voice your support for HB4795.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/03/open-carrying_woman_told_to_ge.html


dmd7765

[oldmann1967]

Another ignorant or liberal "Authority". No different than the CADL. Thanks for educating the show attendees Dmd7765!

[dmd7765]

We amended our conversations with the attendees to include what happened Friday and the need for HB4795


dmd7765

[TylerV76]

The comments regarding that article are astonishing. I just got sucked into reading at least 200 of them and the ignorance is mind blowing about a subject they clearly have no grasp on let alone any research what so ever.

[dmd7765]

There were some unkind posts referring to the physical appearance of Denise (d_flinders) and myself and to many visits to McD'shttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160313/f8681cc19970b57759fcabb2bad6d944.jpg


dmd7765

[Freetime]

I also read many of the comments. The more I read, the more pissed off I was becoming!! Hard to believe there are so many dumb ass, inconsiderate morons that feel the need to make hurtful moronic statements! They may think they're cute/funny, when they really prove themselves to be nothing more than being complete Aholes!! They're worthless individuals and their comments aren't worth caring about! Too bad individuals working to do good for society have to put up with crap like this! This is JMHO.

[d_flinders]

The comments regarding that article are astonishing. I just got sucked into reading at least 200 of them and the ignorance is mind blowing about a subject they clearly have no grasp on let alone any research what so ever.
Should have read them sooner before the real ignorant ones were deleted.

[TylerV76]

Should have read them sooner before the real ignorant ones were deleted.

I saw quite a few of them. I tried to just skip over most of them since my blood pressure didnt need to go any higher than it already was.

[DEVIL DOG]

I didn't want to read any of those ignorant posts. What's wrong with your physical appearance ? Is it because Denise has hair ?

Nobody & I mean NOBODY is perfect. Most of those criticizing you probably have bad breath, or STD's, no money & no idea what's normal.

[luckless]

Should have read them sooner before the real ignorant ones were deleted.

Thanks for your willingness to step up and promote our 2A rights!

[partdeux]

Why even pay attention to MLive? They are about as far left as you can get, they make money off internet clicks, they LOVE generated controversy. Just say no to MLive.

[Mr. Waverly]

In my opinion, most of those who posted on Mlive really missed the true underlying story. To me, the real story isn't about carrying a sidearm, it's about our basic rights - in this specific case, the right to carry. As so many have posted, if Americans are willing to surrender or somehow lose the rights granted under the 2nd Amendment, what additional rights will be lost shortly thereafter? THAT is the story that needs to get out.

[balrog006]

MGO & MOC where both told to disarm by the Devos Place management company (SMG). Devos Place is owned by the CAA (Kent County/City of Grand Rapids authority. Clearly and infringement of our rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment and Article 1, Section 6 of the Michigan Constitution. HB4795 will put teeth in preemption. Please call your representatives and voice your support for HB4795.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/03/open-carrying_woman_told_to_ge.html


dmd7765


Sadly par for the course here where the City of GR is concerned. For being in the middle of blue, uber conservative west Michigan they sure are anti gun, as is Kent Co on average.... They both constantly flaunt their ignorance and noncompliance of the law and have trained most of their gov officials in the same mold...

It sickens me to be associated with them even by simple geography :-(

[Bozo]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

[TylerV76]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

So because the people promoting gun ownership and safety were wearing guns but removed them when asked to and one is a man you needed to announce you leaving the website? So you would take information on driving a car from someone who doesnt own one?

:roll:

[Norton]

Bozo, really! Your response is that you and the Bozo team don't agree, so you leave?
You could stick around and try and be a positive influence. Y'know, beep my nose and I'll beep yours.
Remember those immortal words of Cheech & Chong: "Were all Bozo's on this bus."
Maybe Mrs. Bozo can work the next show to lend her positive influence.

[DP425]

Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

So just where do you think open carry should be conducted then? If you don't want people to open carry where others may not be receptive to it, then you don't support open carry at all, as just about anywhere you go, there may (likely, is) someone who is not OC friendly.

You talk about delivering a message- You should work on being more honest delivering yours. "I do not support open carry" would have been enough.

[bkglad]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

If you come back I will call you out on everything you say. While entitled to your opinion, you're not entitled to be a hypocrite.


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[Freetime]

What ever you think best! BYE BYE BOZO

[oldmann1967]

Bummer.

[wsr]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

Another example of someone not understanding the difference between being pro-gun and being pro-2A

[bkglad]

Another example of someone not understanding the difference between being pro-gun and being pro-2A

+1


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[Mr. Waverly]

Bozo: "It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible."

I was one of the male volunteers on Friday morning. I, too, would have liked to have seen more women volunteers. Unfortunately, that did not happen, and Dave and I stepped in to help. Were we practicing what we were preaching? You bet. Did we help expo attendees better understand how getting trained can enhance their safety? Yes! And, many of the women who stopped by, at least while I was there, had or were in the process of, getting their CPL's. We had many conversations about responsible gun ownership. We had many conversations about where to get additional training in the area. And we had more than a few who had not considered carrying a firearm stop by for a chat.

There are many ways to support MGO's endeavors - rather than complain about what we do, please consider how you can help support our mission. You and your wife are in the GR area, did either of you consider helping?

[redwingsrule6971]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

With all due respect, part of MOC and MGO being at the Women's Expo was to educate and make women more aware about our rights and the advantages to carrying, both open and concealed.

Did you perhaps think that a male presence HAD to be there because there aren't yet enough women in MGO and MOC to have been able to properly "man" the booth for the whole weekend?

Trust me, both MGO and MOC wanted as many women there to be at the booth, but sadly, we don't have many women in our organizations...YET.

Maybe this was one of the reasons we were at the WOMEN'S expo?


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[ColonelKurtz]

Bozo LOL.

[dmd7765]

Once again Bozo, you don't know the details. d_flinders (Denise) from MGO and Sandi from MOC were the front line as far as talking to the ladies, I was only there as a backup, to provide a break when they needed it. I was also there to handle any issues that arose from the local units of government.


dmd7765

[partdeux]

Wow BOZO, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Where was your 2A supporting wife? The call went out on both MGO and MOC for help to (wo)man the booth. Both organizations are volunteer organizations, and without volunteers of either sex, there are zero events. Some of the supporters that were there or planned to be there were putting out personal money to be there, either by driving across the state, paying for meals, even paying for hotel rooms.

Sure is great to be able to be able to complain and criticize while not lifting a finger to help.

[Draken]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

Wow, just wow.

Most people call people like you Fudds, I call you buts. I do that because you are always saying stuff like, I am pro gun, but...

I personally am not a huge fan of OC, I CC most of the time. At the 2A march/rally, I will LGOC, OC, and CC (sure to upset at least one group) because while I may not be a huge supporter of OC, I believe EVERYone should be able to carry ANY way they feel fits them best.

I have found overall, people like yourself are the ones that are most harmful to the pro 2a cause.

[dougwg]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

So you nor your wife helped at the event...and you're mad because we didn't have more women at the event so you're leaving.

That is some really screwed up thinking on your part.

Maybe it's a good thing you leave, as the ORG's IQ average will increase.

[dougwg]

Once again Bozo, you don't know the details. d_flinders (Denise) from MGO and Sandi from MOC were the front line as far as talking to the ladies, I was only there as a backup, to provide a break when they needed it. I was also there to handle any issues that arose from the local units of government.


dmd7765
Sorry but you failed at your job.

[dmd7765]

Sorry but you failed at your job.

You have your opinion, but I disagree. I pointed out the illegality in the no firearms policy, attempted to rectify with the City Attorney and the PD.

[oldmann1967]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

It really is too bad you are leaving. I am sure you have contributed to this site in a positive way. Let us all remember to be constructive when we see something we don't like here on MGO. I have confidence that the board will listen to any members that have ideas on how to improve the org. If you don't like the way things went at the women's event, don't complain. Bring solutions! You may see things in a different manner than another person and enlighten them. If MGO doesn't agree, that is fine, but don't get discouraged. We are all here to further 2A.

[luckless]

My wife and I discussed the situation and here is what we came up with: first it was held at a Women's Expo. My wife has her CPL and is one hell of a gun advocate but she firmly believes that it should have been handled different. It should have been a 100% female crew there without any males visible. The females will be able to handle that better than the way it was presented. Second there should have been no guns visible as not every woman wants to see a gun at a WOMEN EXPO. And yes I do agree with her on all of it. I see where the administration and others on this site think that if you don't like my guns then ******* off. If you want to reach more people and educate them then it must be handled in a civilized manner. Not in a show of flaunting your stuff. Because of what and how this was handled and where it was done I have elected to remove myself from this site and not associate myself with an organization that does not know how to represent themselves to the public to bring more people to the fold. No wonder there are more sheeple against guns.

Good bye to all and it was fun but may you all open your eyes to how to present yourselves to people to educate them. Oh by the way, I am 62, my wife is 63, we both grew up with guns and used them since we were old enough to hunt. I have my FFL, both of us have our CPL, enjoy shooting and hunting so it is not like we are some liberal 20 somethings.

There are just SO many things wrong with this post.

[bkglad]

Anybody know what bozo does with his ffl. I would like to avoid him if I can.


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[planedriver]

With all due respect, part of MOC and MGO being at the Women's Expo was to educate and make women more aware about our rights and the advantages to carrying, both open and concealed.

Did you perhaps think that a male presence HAD to be there because there aren't yet enough women in MGO and MOC to have been able to properly "man" the booth for the whole weekend?

Trust me, both MGO and MOC wanted as many women there to be at the booth, but sadly, we don't have many women in our organizations...YET.

Maybe this was one of the reasons we were at the WOMEN'S expo?


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I saw some chatter that you were going to be at the Expo. Were you there anytime to have first hand knowlege?

[bassplayer]

I didn't want to read any of those ignorant posts. What's wrong with your physical appearance ? Is it because Denise has hair ?

Nobody & I mean NOBODY is perfect. Most of those criticizing you probably have bad breath, or STD's, no money & no idea what's normal.

It's because they (low information voters/democrats/etc...) have zero substance when discussing any issues and have to revert to name calling or put-downs. The ignorance in the masses is unbelievable.

[redwingsrule6971]

I saw some chatter that you were going to be at the Expo. Were you there anytime to have first hand knowlege?

No, I wasn't. I was going to be there Saturday and Sunday.

I'm kicking myself for not still going as an MGO member.


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[G36 Shooter]

Bozo, where was your wife? MGO and MOC posted for volunteers. redwingsrule6971 was willing to drive from downriver Detroit.

[fastlane1986]

Sorry but you failed at your job.

On the contrary, I think Dave did a very good job, given the fact that management was willing to make a scene and have local GRPD come in and "escort" Dave and his crew out of the building. How do I know? My wife and I were there in an adjacent booth and witnessed all that occurred. After the initial confrontation, Dave presented the facts very clearly and presented the consequences if they proceeded on their course of action. Under the circumstances, I don't think it should have been handled any differently. The last thing you want to do is reinforce the media's portrayal of what they believe OC and CC people are like and the danger we represent. It opened my wife's eyes to the OC issue and maybe even changed a few people's attitudes towards OC/CC that had booths in the same row. Keep up the good work Dave!

[dougwg]

On the contrary, I think Dave did a very good job, given the fact that management was willing to make a scene and have local GRPD come in and "escort" Dave and his crew out of the building. How do I know? My wife and I were there in an adjacent booth and witnessed all that occurred. After the initial confrontation, Dave presented the facts very clearly and presented the consequences if they proceeded on their course of action. Under the circumstances, I don't think it should have been handled any differently. The last thing you want to do is reinforce the media's portrayal of what they believe OC and CC people are like and the danger we represent. It opened my wife's eyes to the OC issue and maybe even changed a few people's attitudes towards OC/CC that had booths in the same row. Keep up the good work Dave!

On the contrary!

We have 2 court cases that say we can't be made to disarm in situations such as this.

Dave knows this.
Dave told them this.
Dave voluntarily disarms anyway.
Dave lets them know that all you have to do is confront us and we will acquiesce to their unlawful demands.
Dave had an EXCELLENT opportunity so stand up for his and our rights.
Instead of standing up, he tucked tail.

How do you think we got this far? Standing up for our rights or just accepting their refusal to recognize our rights?



Michigan Gun Owners Mission Statement


Michigan Gun Owners is a not-for-profit grass roots organization committed to educating the public on safe responsible gun ownership and preserving and defending the right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and Article I, section 6 of Michigan’s Constitution.

Let me know when the next one of these events takes place and I'll be there to show you all how it's done.

Dave,
This is not personal. I love all the hard work you put into MGO. I admire and respect your commitment to your position within the organization.
Nevertheless I believe you screwed the pooch on this one.

[bigt8261]

I support Dave's decision. In my opinion, doing the opposite would have meant taking unnecessary casualties.

For those who think he should have gotten trespassed, are you willing to pay his legal fees? Reimburse him for lost wages and expenses to fight the case? Visit him in jail over the weekend, if it would have come to that? Assist him with other potential tacked on charges?

If getting trespassed/arrested was necessary to fight this fight, then I assure you I would have been there the next morning to do it myself. (I would have been there Friday if it were not for a funeral that I had to go to on the other side of the state). But, it's not necessary.

We can fight this fight on our terms, and without putting someone's personal legal well-being at stake. We now have the opportunity to handle this in a fashion that is potentially cheaper, thus leaving us more money to fight other fights down the road.

In the end, getting trespassed was not a necessary step to claiming victory.

[fastlane1986]

I understand your point dougwg, but I'm not sure perpwalking Dave and his crew out of the building, where there were hundreds of women in line to enter, would have been the best way to convey our message. Don't we want them to be sympathetic to our cause, and not see us as potential criminals? Remember, the attendees were there to have a good time and look at all sorts of "fun" things, not be witnesses to an ugly confrontation. There is a time and place for going toe to toe with the organizers and management, but not in front of the target (no pun intended) audience. This is only my opinion, which is based on dealing with reasonable people throughout my lifetime. Irrational people are a different story, as we all can agree!

[jvanhorn]

How does one go about seeing the comments on these Mlive articles? Without paying for access, I mean.

[TylerV76]

How does one go about seeing the comments on these Mlive articles? Without paying for access, I mean.

Blue box on left side above the facebook icon. Right now says 400 for the amount of comments.

[jvanhorn]

Blue box on left side above the facebook icon. Right now says 400 for the amount of comments.

Must be blocked at work, it doesn't work for me.

[TylerV76]

Must be blocked at work, it doesn't work for me.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/03/open-carrying_woman_told_to_ge.html#comments

Maybe that will work.

[oldmann1967]

On the contrary!

We have 2 court cases that say we can't be made to disarm in situations such as this.

Dave knows this.
Dave told them this.
Dave voluntarily disarms anyway.
Dave lets them know that all you have to do is confront us and we will acquiesce to their unlawful demands.
Dave had an EXCELLENT opportunity so stand up for his and our rights.
Instead of standing up, he tucked tail.

How do you think we got this far? Standing up for our rights or just accepting their refusal to recognize our rights?



Michigan Gun Owners Mission Statement


Michigan Gun Owners is a not-for-profit grass roots organization committed to educating the public on safe responsible gun ownership and preserving and defending the right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and Article I, section 6 of Michigan’s Constitution.

Let me know when the next one of these events takes place and I'll be there to show you all how it's done.

Dave,
This is not personal. I love all the hard work you put into MGO. I admire and respect your commitment to your position within the organization.
Nevertheless I believe you screwed the pooch on this one.
I think you should take the opportunity to go to an event there. When you are kindly asked to leave you should stay. Let the police escort you out in handcuffs. Then you can take time from your schedule and funds from your bank account to battle in court. I am sure it will all be a pleasant and timely experience.

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