MGO/MOC Members Meeting w/ Rep Jon Hoadley- Kalamazoo April 4th 530pm-700pm

[dmd7765]

Rep. Jon Hoadley (D-Kalamazoo) has been one of the leading proponents of gun control this legislative session. His name has appeared on multiple bills dealing with subjects such as banning Open Carry, to prohibiting firearm sales to people on the federal terrorist watch list.

Michigan Gun Owners and Michigan Open Carry were both contacted by Rep Jon Hoadley (D-Kalamazoo) to organize a meeting of members of both organizations to meet and discuss the issue publicly. The meeting will take place at the main branch of the Kalamazoo Library in the Van Deusen Room from 5:30pm-7:00pm on the evening of Monday, April 4th.

If you are in the area, or willing to make the drive please consider attending. We would like to have a huge showing. Please share this with anyone who might be interested in attending.

Thank you

BOD

[PhotoTom]

:shock:

Wow.

[Draken]

Will be there!

[dmd7765]

:shock:

Wow.

Might want to wear a HARD HAT!!:yikes:

[Tallbear]

Hopefully there will be a good turn out or he won't take "us" (MGO?MOC) seriously.

[DV8r]

And come armed. ;-)

[dmd7765]

That is why its being held at a public venue.
And come armed. ;-)

[PhotoTom]

Hopefully there will be a good turn out or he won't take "us" (MGO?MOC) seriously.

And hopefully the turnout represents both orgs well.

I have to wonder what his motive is…does he think he is going to "convert" gun owners into supporting gun control?
Or, is he looking for sound/video clips of "gun nuts" for his purposes…?

He SURE isn't coming to be converted.

[Draken]

You don't mind other Pro2A people even if they are not in either group, correct?

[dmd7765]

The more the merrier

You don't mind other Pro2A people even if they are not in either group, correct?

[dmd7765]

If anyone has any questions or comments that they would like to suggest please PM me.

[dmd7765]

If anyone has a video equipment, we would like to have this recorded-ARRANGED

[Draken]

If anyone has a video equipment, we would like to have this recorded

I have a couple cameras and tripods, nothing super fancy, but might be able to get someone that has a little better gear.

[Double_Tap]

We need a bus from the eastside. I wish my family hadn't sold the cottage at Indian Lake in Vicksburg...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Snowy.vtwin]

perhaps an expenditure for advertising in the local area would be in order to invite all pro-2a interested parties.... maybe a good op to sign up new members...

[PhotoTom]

perhaps an expenditure for advertising in the local area would be in order to invite all pro-2a interested parties.... maybe a good op to sign up new members...

That's a really good idea…as long as we're sure it will be a good meeting for 2A advocates.

I'm sure we will be doing postings on Facebook, not just on our page…but other groups/pages with our targeted audience.
Postings in LGS, etc…

[oldmann1967]

This is very exciting. I hope the library doesn't foil the plans be doing something illegal.

[clinta]

Added to my calendar, I'll be there and look forward to meeting MGO members in person.

[Buffman]

id come but don't get home until late on Monday. I'll get Draken one of my cameras to use

[jolari]

Unfortunately I will be traveling for work so I won't be able to attend. Here are the bullet points/presentation I offered to dmd. I post them here to spark other ideas/discussion before the event.
Also a little background on Rep. Hoadley for those who are going.
http://badlandsstrategies.com/jon-hoadley

[SeeTee]

Looks good, how about a line item example added in about Sen. Virgil Smith , domestic violence, shooting up a Mercedes, damages in excess of $20,000.oo according to at least one news report and yet no gun charges filed, what about that state mandatory 2yr charge for using a gun in a crime?

Laws not enforced, privilege's for the "elite" The son of Chief Wayne County Circuit Judge Virgil Smith

[planedriver]

It would be nice if MGO presented independently of MOC and let it be known we are separate organizations. To those who don't know it could look like we are the same organization.

[dmd7765]

we are presenting a combined discussion moc/mgo on one side, rep hoadley on the other

[planedriver]

It's really looking like we are the concealed wing of MOC. Some of MOC's tactics are a little over the top for me. I really think we need to be seen as MGO not MOC's tag-along.

[dmd7765]

I understand but that is not how this event is set up


dmd7765

[clinta]

Unfortunately I will be traveling for work so I won't be able to attend. Here are the bullet points/presentation I offered to dmd. I post them here to spark other ideas/discussion before the event.
Also a little background on Rep. Hoadley for those who are going.
http://badlandsstrategies.com/jon-hoadley

Well if you want to spark discussion, here's a few of my thoughts. Other than these complaints I think the reset of the presentation is very good. Especially the statistics about the lack of criminality among CPL holders.


• Enact stiffer penalties for those who commit crimes with guns. No parole, no early release
• Give police more resources to enforce the laws already on the books
• Give prosecutors more resources to prosecute those who commit gun related crimes
• Root out corrupt police, prosecutors and government officials who look the other way.

I oppose this, until the definition of "crimes with guns" is fixed. I do not support stiffer penalties for people who carried with an expired CPL or who carried into a pistol free zone for example. What you describe as corruption I can describe as doing the right thing and refusing to enforce unjust laws, depending on the law broken.


• Enact the death penalty for those who commit 1st degree murder

I strongly oppose this. I do not trust the state to never make a mistake, and I'm not willing to support giving them the authority to turn a mistaken conviction into a mistaken execution.


Eliminate PFZ’s in public places as only law abiding citizens follow these laws

A little nitpick, "public places" could be removed here. There is no reason to have PFZ's in private places like churches or daycare's either. Private property owners can enforce their own rules.


• Give grants to organizations such as Michigan Gun Owners and Michigan Open Carry for Gun Safety Education

I oppose state grants as a rule and I fear that the promise of public money has potential to corrupt an organization that takes.

[partdeux]

I see the event is starting at 5:30. How long is it expected to last? At best, I won't be there before 6:30.

[jolari]

Well if you want to spark discussion, here's a few of my thoughts. Other than these complaints I think the reset of the presentation is very good. Especially the statistics about the lack of criminality among CPL holders.



I oppose this, until the definition of "crimes with guns" is fixed. I do not support stiffer penalties for people who carried with an expired CPL or who carried into a pistol free zone for example. What you describe as corruption I can describe as doing the right thing and refusing to enforce unjust laws, depending on the law broken. I should have put "Violent crimes with guns"



I strongly oppose this. I do not trust the state to never make a mistake, and I'm not willing to support giving them the authority to turn a mistaken conviction into a mistaken execution.This was a throw away suggestion as a negotiating tactic, although I am for the death penalty. No man made institution is perfect but the amount of time it takes to actually execute someone gives them plenty of time to prove their innocence in my opinion



A little nitpick, "public places" could be removed here. There is no reason to have PFZ's in private places like churches or daycare's either. Private property owners can enforce their own rules. I stated "public" here as later on I brought up the fact that private places can already prohibit firearms



I oppose state grants as a rule and I fear that the promise of public money has potential to corrupt an organization that takes.Totally understand this point. The way to prevent it is to never allow the money from the government to become your primary source of income. Always have to be in the position to refuse the money if it goes against your principals.
Thanks for the critiques, I am always glad to get others opinions.

[Leader]

Find out what happened to the program schools were supposed to develop about gun safety. Why hasn't it been implemented?
As I recall, it was part of a LAW.

[Roundballer]

Find out what happened to the program schools were supposed to develop about gun safety. Why hasn't it been implemented?
As I recall, it was part of a LAW.
The MSP was supposed to develop it, and make it "available" to the school districts.

There was nothing in there that required the school districts to implement it in their curriculum.

[Magnum Man]

The MSP was supposed to develop it, and make it "available" to the school districts.

There was nothing in there that required the school districts to implement it in their curriculum.

Any idea how much money was invested into this endeavor?

[Leader]

The MSP was supposed to develop it, and make it "available" to the school districts.

There was nothing in there that required the school districts to implement it in their curriculum.

You could still ask what the status is & push to implement it.
ANYONE concerned with gun safety couldn't fault education.

[Buffman]

I wonder how many times the NRA is going to be blamed tonight, for why Hoadley's "common sense" legislation doesn't go anywhere :\.

[spartywrx]

Going to try a little live blogging. Open carrier guy giving a talk now. Talking about CDc and gun violence research now.

About 50 people here.

He made a great statement about we already have universal background checks on pistols and yet we have problems with pistols.

I just walked in and missed the first half, fyi

[spartywrx]

Talking about how cpl, holders commit less crimes than the police.

Currently talking about pistol free zones and improving the cpl process.

Talking about gun free zones and how crossing a line (gun free zone) does not cause a cpl holder to go crazy

[spartywrx]

Hoadley doing a rebuttal now

Arguing that his data is better.

Random ladies interjecting as both of the speakers are talking

[spartywrx]

Hoadley attacking John Lott and Scalia now.

Quoting some op Ed by justice Stevens

[spartywrx]

Hoadley is the definition of smug.

[spartywrx]

Now Hoadley is quoting the huffington post for some study about mass shootings.

[mikeb32]

Is it a Rowdy Crowd?

[spartywrx]

MOC guy doing rebuttal now

I'd say pretty good turn out I see at least 10 open carriers, and some more various pro gun looking people.

News 8 and local fox are here

[spartywrx]

Is it a Rowdy Crowd?
local AARP membership + open carriers. Crowd has been very respectful of speakers so far.

Two security guards at the door, appear unarmed and extremely un-frightful

Open carrier now bringing up caetenao v commonwealth saying sorry Hoadley all 8 justices disagree with you

[spartywrx]

Open mic!

Some guy talking about how emotion is the root cause of homicide and how Wild West was tame because no one could carry in towns

[spartywrx]

Open mic guy stated that he's not afraid of being shot. Wtf? Then says that straw purchases are the problem

[spartywrx]

Rebuttal by MOC saying that my success of defending myself is not killing someone, but preventing crime.

He kind of bungled the response in saying if someone came to the room and he scared him off with a gun it would be good, forgot to make his imaginary person a bad guy

[spartywrx]

FFL guy talking about firearms purchases and straw purchases. He states that he stops straw purchases often and that how stopping straw purchases are impossible.

300+ denials with no follow up from the Feds.

[spartywrx]

Probably going to get testy now, old dude trying to argue with FFL guy. FFL guy very well spoken.

[spartywrx]

FFL guy now arguing that pistol free zones are the areas where mass shootings happen

[spartywrx]

Another guy from freedom firearms talking about open carry march in Lansing and there was no violence even with 3 school buses full of kids at the capitol

[spartywrx]

Youth pastor from paw paw talking now about how he's neutral. He feels safer inside the library with the open carriers than not. Didn't realize there were so many mass shootings, seems to be a common theme tonight that there is a disagreement on what is a mass shooting.

Calling about Hoadley on how he had to get a license to buy a gun and Hoadley is wrong about needing a license to buy a gun.

Talking about morality problem in society is the main problems not open carrier. Gun safety education is necessary

[spartywrx]

Mgo response now about the safety program with kids that mgo runs. Talking about instructing parents and kids.

[Leader]

Another guy from freedom firearms talking about open carry march in Lansing and there was no violence even with 3 school buses full of kids at the capitol

A bunch of open carriers didn't go crazy & start shooting when they saw the kids?????

WOW What next, one might walk by a school & not shoot it up?

[spartywrx]

Retired Police detective speaking now, been shot at, drug investigations, etc...

Taking offense to being called Rambo.

Talking about many referrals of felon with firearm never getting prosecuted and ATF in Grand Rapids only prosecuting 1 case per month.

[spartywrx]

Question from the floor about the example of adults bringing guns eg open carry to school but kids get suspended. Hoadley explaining kps lockdown procedure

Hoadley supports expaning gun free zones

MOC rebuttal about open carry and how there are many open carriers in attendance tonight and yet anti gun people didn't freak out. Speaking against gun free zones in schools

[spartywrx]

Guy in white shirt talking now

Talking about scholastic clay shooting program and how guns in schools aren't necessary bad. Had his shotgun locked up at school so he could go practice afterwards. Eddie eagle mentioned. Stressing need for in school firearm safety classes, school schooling teams.

[spartywrx]

MOC stressing that open carriers are safe.

Open carrier carried in Kalamazoo schools 5 times before anybody called the cops.

Angry lady shot up and yelled at MOC guy. Anti gun side getting angry with MOC guy.

[spartywrx]

Angry dude harassing Hoadley now Hoadley gets pissed, kinda legit on hoadleys side.

although Hoadley said he has to go soon.

[spartywrx]

Guy in back in black says that he was hurt by hoadleys comments

Complaining about veteran suicides and needs to be addressed.

Everyone agrees

[spartywrx]

Question from bandana guy saying that African American communities affected most by gun violence. Says that it's a socioeconomic issue.

Says that armed security is everywhere and that people don't care

[spartywrx]

Hoadley says that his data says that more access to guns leads to more violence, MOC guy says opposite. "Agree to disagree " statement.

MOC arguing that cross sectional data is not good and that's what Hoadley depends on

MOC response about socioeconomic issues that are important and that people need to get help

[spartywrx]

And we're done

Talk of rescheduling more of these talks.

[mikeb32]

Thanks Sparty, Excellent job!!

[Kilt Guy]

Thank you for the live commentary. It was like I was there without the 4+ hours of driving:mrgreen:

[planedriver]

Good job on the relay. It was really a nice job.

[Buffman]

Thanks Sparty. I'm sure the News3/Mlive will twist it into an "OMG look at all these angry people with guns, attacking this rep.."

[spartywrx]

Overall was probably 60-40 pro/anti gun. Was a very civil discussion for what it could have turned into. I missed Hoadley's presentation but I thought the best point of the night was from the guy with the FFL about his 300 denials for background checks that have never been prosecuted or followed up upon.

The retired cop also made some good points about lack of prosecution being the real problem.

Hoadley had his data and we had ours. It came down to who's data is the best. Hoadley tried to throw out a bunch of meta-analyses and stuff like that but as someone who depends on analyses for his daily job I can say that its susceptible to "garbage in garbage out" and just because its peer reviewed doesn't mean that its not crap.

Another great point is wheN MOC guy made people raise their hands if you thought violence was increasing or decreasing. The anti's hands went up for increasing and vice versa for the pro's. He then read the stats from the Bureau of Justice statistics on how crime is down.

I do have to give respect to Hoadley for agreeing to the conversation and he was civil and polite. Our side was civil and polite as well. Lots of "amen" type mutterings from the anti gun side, they seemed very charged with emotion.

Probably no opinions were changed in the room that day but there was media and probably some good soundbites for both sides will be on the news. Fox and ABC were there, and then there were some more reporters without cameras. That's where the influence is, getting good sound bites to the whole community.

Anyways good work MOC and MGO. Pretty good showing by the open carriers as well, of course you can't see who is concealed carrying or just a silent pro gun person.

[Leader]

Overall was probably 60-40 pro/anti gun. Was a very civil discussion for what it could have turned into. I missed Hoadley's presentation but I thought the best point of the night was from the guy with the FFL about his 300 denials for background checks that have never been prosecuted or followed up upon.

The retired cop also made some good points about lack of prosecution being the real problem.

Hoadley had his data and we had ours. It came down to who's data is the best. Hoadley tried to throw out a bunch of meta-analyses and stuff like that but as someone who depends on analyses for his daily job I can say that its susceptible to "garbage in garbage out" and just because its peer reviewed doesn't mean that its not crap.

Another great point is wheN MOC guy made people raise their hands if you thought violence was increasing or decreasing. The anti's hands went up for increasing and vice versa for the pro's. He then read the stats from the Bureau of Justice statistics on how crime is down.

I do have to give respect to Hoadley for agreeing to the conversation and he was civil and polite. Our side was civil and polite as well. Lots of "amen" type mutterings from the anti gun side, they seemed very charged with emotion.

Probably no opinions were changed in the room that day but there was media and probably some good soundbites for both sides will be on the news. Fox and ABC were there, and then there were some more reporters without cameras. That's where the influence is, getting good sound bites to the whole community.

Anyways good work MOC and MGO. Pretty good showing by the open carriers as well, of course you can't see who is concealed carrying or just a silent pro gun person.

What is the local FOX station?

[PhotoTom]

Going to try a little live blogging. Open carrier guy giving a talk now. Talking about CDc and gun violence research now.

About 50 people here.

He made a great statement about we already have universal background checks on pistols and yet we have problems with pistols.

I just walked in and missed the first half, fyi

Thank you Sparty…much deserved positive rep sent your way.

[mikeb32]

Sent another Positive rep as well!

[partdeux]

Problem with meta analysis and the studies I'm sure Hoadley probably presented, they are ALL Bloomberg companies and researchers. They make up stats and refer to each other, providing artificial credence to the studies. Literally need to study Lott's work or even bring Lott in for the debate.

Thank your for the commentary.

[clinta]

Rep Hoadley obviously came very prepared, even prepared for arguments that nobody made, like the 2nd Amendment. It looked like MOC/MGO was on the defensive most of the time. It would have been nice if we had some visual data to present ourselves instead of just attacking his data.

A visual contrast of "Gun crime" with all violent crime for example would have been striking. Or a comparison of violent crime over time as gun laws have liberalized.

For future events like this I think both sides should allow eachother to see what visual presentations they will be showing in advance, because it's simply unfair to expect someone to adequately critique data or a visual representation of data without an opportunity to prepare visualizations of their own. If this is to be done under the guise of actually discussing ideas and learning, rather than creating sound bytes, both sides should be open to allowing the other side to properly prepare.

[clinta]

http://woodtv.com/2016/04/04/heated-debate-on-gun-violence-in-kalamazoo/



KALAMAZOO, Mich. (WOOD) — About six weeks after six people were killed and two more wounded in a shooting rampage, Kalamazoo-area residents gathered Monday to debate the issues surrounding gun violence.

The conversation at the Kalamazoo Public Library became heated at times as the people on opposite sides of the issue clashed. Some argued there are too many guns getting into the wrong hands in the United States, while gun advocates said statistics are skewed and ignoring the benefits of firearms.

State Rep. Jon Hoadley, D-Kalamazoo, who facilitated the discussion, showed a graph that indicated there were 88.8 guns per 100 people in the U.S. and also talked about the number of mass shootings across the nation and the accessibility of guns.

“I strongly believe that we need to acknowledge the link between accessibility and an injury and death,” he said.

State Representative Jon Hoadley playing video on gun violence statistics @WOODTV pic.twitter.com/o1j1mHMcjL

— Sarah Hurwitz (@sehurwitz) April 4, 2016

Hoadley argued the U.S. should model its gun policy after other countries with universal background checks to crack down on gun violence.

Tom Lambert, the president of Michigan Open Carry, Inc., disagreed.

“You don’t get in the way of people protecting themselves,” he told people assembled for the meeting.

He packed his argument with frustration toward the numbers, saying the statistics were cherry-picked and misleading. He also said the argument for gun control did not take into account law-abiding citizens who own guns.

[clinta]

And here's Fox's coverage featuring an interview with Denise.

http://fox17online.com/2016/04/04/public-forum-on-gun-control-sparks-debate-in-kalamazoo/


KALAMAZOO, Mich - An open forum on a controversial issue lead to strong arguments in Kalamazoo on Monday. The topic: gun control; a sensitive issue in the area coming just weeks after the mass shooting that killed six people an injured two others.

The big question asked at the public forum: is gun violence directly connected to gun access? The discussion drew a clear line in the sand between the two sides, made very clear by a question and answer session.
“I think this world has got completely crazy and I want to protect myself, protect my children, protect my family and come home safe at the end of the day," said Denise Flinders, an open carry advocate.
Flinders was just one of many people who came to the meeting vocalizing the importance of their second amendment rights.
“I am an NRA instructor, I work for Firearms Legal Protection, which is a legal service company that protects citizens that have to use their firearms in self-defense reasons, I am also a mother of six children with special needs and carry my gun everywhere I legally can," said Flinders.
The forum was run by State Representative Jon Hoadley who has strong opinions on gun control.
“I would love to see us expand our background checks, I would love to see us work on smart gun technology and ultimately let's look for ways that empower local communities to make decisions about the guns in their communities," said Rep. Hoadley.
The forum was also led by Michigan Open Carry President Tom Lambert, whose opinions differ from Rep. Hoadley.

[planedriver]

And here's Fox's coverage featuring an interview with Denise.

http://fox17online.com/2016/04/04/public-forum-on-gun-control-sparks-debate-in-kalamazoo/

I posted this in another thread but since it's here.... Flanders appeared to be representing MOC! At the very best she got 30 seconds of self promotion for her FLD business and instructor business but NO mention of MGO at all.

[Draken]

Over all was a good meeting, but would have been nice if MGO could have had a little more time. Tom, well, just kept talking, and of course Hoadley with his 30 minute power point.

Would like to see this done again with more time for Q&A, and to see equal representation for MGO, as it really did look like we were riding MOCs coat tails on this one.

Did get to speak with a couple regarding education for children, and they seemed VERY interested.

[Buffman]

^Did you end up recording the whole thing?

[Draken]

^Did you end up recording the whole thing?

David had his camera setup

[oldmann1967]

Great play-by-play!

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[d_flinders]

I posted this in another thread but since it's here.... Flanders appeared to be representing MOC! At the very best she got 30 seconds of self promotion for her FLD business and instructor business but NO mention of MGO at all.
Just wondering how I appear to be representing MOC and not MGO? It was actually about a 2 minute interview and thats what they chose to air. I did not mention MOC or MGO, however I am a paid member of both. Wasnt trying to promote my instructor business, I was over 2 hours away from home so sure no one will be signing up for a class. She asked me what I did for a living.

Denise Flinders

[planedriver]

Just wondering how I appear to be representing MOC and not MGO? It was actually about a 2 minute interview and thats what they chose to air. I did not mention MOC or MGO, however I am a paid member of both. Wasnt trying to promote my instructor business, I was over 2 hours away from home so sure no one will be signing up for a class. She asked me what I did for a living.

Denise Flinders

Are you just now becoming aware of your statement as reported on FOX17? What I saw was pure unedited self promotion FLD, instructor, mother of 6 and so on. Surely there was time in there to mention MGO or MGO brought me to the dance, "I'm running for the MGO board and here because..., something other than rambling about your revenue sources.

If, on the other hand you were there to represent MOC I presume they are confused also. If not, this leaves the option of self promotion, which in my observation, you excelled at.

According to Rebecca Russel and video you said the following:
“I think this world has got completely crazy, and I want to protect myself, protect my children, protect my family, and come home safe at the end of the day," said Denise Flinders, an open carry advocate.

Flinders was just one of many people who came to the meeting and vocalized the importance of their Second Amendment rights. “I am an NRA instructor. I work for Firearms Legal Protection, which is a legal service company that protects citizens that have to use their firearms in self-defense reasons. I am also a mother of six children with special needs and carry my gun everywhere I legally can," said Flinders.

If I am mistaken in my assertion that you did not mention/support MGO, please site my error specifically. Absent that, What organization were you there to support and how did you do so?

[Leader]

Are you just now becoming aware of your statement as reported on FOX17? What I saw was pure unedited self promotion FLD, instructor, mother of 6 and so on. Surely there was time in there to mention MGO or MGO brought me to the dance, "I'm running for the MGO board and here because..., something other than rambling about your revenue sources.

If, on the other hand you were there to represent MOC I presume they are confused also. If not, this leaves the option of self promotion, which in my observation, you excelled at.

According to Rebecca Russel and video you said the following:
“I think this world has got completely crazy, and I want to protect myself, protect my children, protect my family, and come home safe at the end of the day," said Denise Flinders, an open carry advocate.

Flinders was just one of many people who came to the meeting and vocalized the importance of their Second Amendment rights. “I am an NRA instructor. I work for Firearms Legal Protection, which is a legal service company that protects citizens that have to use their firearms in self-defense reasons. I am also a mother of six children with special needs and carry my gun everywhere I legally can," said Flinders.

If I am mistaken in my assertion that you did not mention/support MGO, please site my error specifically. Absent that, What organization were you there to support and how did you do so?

Come on now pd, you KNOW how reporters chop up interviews to serve the story.
If you are so concerned about MGO not getting enough air time, make SURE you are at the next meeting and get editorial control of your interview.
At least Denise was there & delivered a positive interview for gun owners and citizens in general,

Thank You Denise.

[planedriver]

Come on now pd, you KNOW how reporters chop up interviews to serve the story.
If you are so concerned about MGO not getting enough air time, make SURE you are at the next meeting and get editorial control of your interview.
At least Denise was there & delivered a positive interview for gun owners and citizens in general,

Thank You Denise.

Yeah Leader you are right. I'll take the hit on that point.

I had just finished setting up, tearing down and working the MGO table at Lansing/Mason gun show Friday, Saturday and Sunday prior to the meeting in Kalamazoo Monday. To get out in front of this kind of thing, At the BOD meeting yesterday I volunteered to work West Michigan helping to setup more of these events so MGO gets some good press.

[d_flinders]

Yeah Leader you are right. I'll take the hit on that point.

I had just finished setting up, tearing down and working the MGO table at Lansing/Mason gun show Friday, Saturday and Sunday prior to the meeting in Kalamazoo Monday. To get out in front of this kind of thing, At the BOD meeting yesterday I volunteered to work West Michigan helping to setup more of these events so MGO gets some good press.
I have also spent quite a bit of time volunteering at shows. I have spent a weekend on the other side of the state to work a show that we ended up being ridiculed over how we handled being told to disarm. Besides having comments on the article picking apart my physical appearance worse than any bullying in my school days! I love to volunteer and feel like I am helping support a great cause but gotta say its not easy when everytime I do something it's being picked apart and I'm told how I should have done it. I would love to run for the board but wondering if I am a good fit.

Denise Flinders

[partdeux]

Denise, Thank you for the amount of time you volunteer for both organizations. It is very much appreciated.

[Freetime]

I have also spent quite a bit of time volunteering at shows. I have spent a weekend on the other side of the state to work a show that we ended up being ridiculed over how we handled being told to disarm. Besides having comments on the article picking apart my physical appearance worse than any bullying in my school days! I love to volunteer and feel like I am helping support a great cause but gotta say its not easy when everytime I do something it's being picked apart and I'm told how I should have done it. I would love to run for the board but wondering if I am a good fit.

Denise Flinders

By all means, if you're considering running for the board, DO IT! There will always be certain individuals who will complain and bitch about everything that doesn't meet their expectations. That's very evident with this group as well as most others I've belonged to. Most of the time the bitching and complaints come from the members and non-members who do nothing BUT complain and do nothing else! I appreciate all you do for our group as do many others. Ignore the whiners, as difficult as it may be and do what you feel is best! As far as comments "picking apart your physical appearance" goes, anyone who resorts to that type of BS is not worth you worrying about to begin with! In my opinion they're nothing more than low-life POS's. Please don't let idiots like that make your decision based on their ignorance! Thanks, and best of luck if you decide to run. JMHO

[Kaeto]

I have also spent quite a bit of time volunteering at shows. I have spent a weekend on the other side of the state to work a show that we ended up being ridiculed over how we handled being told to disarm. Besides having comments on the article picking apart my physical appearance worse than any bullying in my school days! I love to volunteer and feel like I am helping support a great cause but gotta say its not easy when everytime I do something it's being picked apart and I'm told how I should have done it. I would love to run for the board but wondering if I am a good fit.

Denise Flinders

Denise You will have my support if you run. As far as the reporting goes I'm surprised they didn't chop it up so that it appeared that you were anti gun. The only profession that lies to serve their agenda more than a reporter is a politician.

[d_flinders]

Denise You will have my support if you run. As far as the reporting goes I'm surprised they didn't chop it up so that it appeared that you were anti gun. The only profession that lies to serve their agenda more than a reporter is a politician.
Thanks! The reporter appears to be progun based on her fb page (we became fb friends because shecontacted me about another interview she wants to do). So I'm sure they could have chopped it up bad but didnt. Im happy with what they aired even if some think otherwise.


Denise Flinders

[Leader]

Thanks! The reporter appears to be progun based on her fb page (we became fb friends because shecontacted me about another interview she wants to do). So I'm sure they could have chopped it up bad but didnt. Im happy with what they aired even if some think otherwise.


Denise Flinders

Go for it Denise, I'm sure you'll do good even if you can't control what they print.

[mikeb32]

" Never say anything that you don't want to hear on the news"

[jolari]

Sorry it took so long but here are the videos of the event. I have put Rep Hoadley's presentation in one video and the response in the other. If people want, I will make a video of the questions as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR-Sab-IA3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI4Eg68UZXk