PDA

View Full Version : SBR Pistol in Shotgun zone?



DP425
05-02-2016, 09:34 AM
Strange this is only the second thread for this sub-forum...


Anyway, I had been looking at the .45 Raptor for shotgun zone hunting with a rifle. I'd been leaning heavily toward a short barreled upper on an SBRed lower so I could easily run a can without having length be obnoxiously long.

Then it occurred to me... What if said SBR is required to be registered as a pistol in MI, and meets the MI pistol definition? Would that also make it a pistol for hunting purposes? If so, there are many better options out there.

And I guess that brings me to another consideration- assuming pistol registered SBR would pass as a pistol for hunting purposes, would that then mean my grandfather'ed SIG 556 would as well?

Roundballer
05-02-2016, 11:45 AM
Strange this is only the second thread for this sub-forum...
That is in YOUR settings, there are 210 threads in this sub-forum.


Anyway, I had been looking at the .45 Raptor for shotgun zone hunting with a rifle. I'd been leaning heavily toward a short barreled upper on an SBRed lower so I could easily run a can without having length be obnoxiously long.

Then it occurred to me... What if said SBR is required to be registered as a pistol in MI, and meets the MI pistol definition? Would that also make it a pistol for hunting purposes? If so, there are many better options out there.

And I guess that brings me to another consideration- assuming pistol registered SBR would pass as a pistol for hunting purposes, would that then mean my grandfather'ed SIG 556 would as well?
The rules for the "limited firearms" zone sort of lump handguns and rifle together, what you are "calling it" will make little difference.

The limitation is on CASE type and length along with magazine capacity. All bottle-necked cases are out.

Michaelk
05-02-2016, 11:45 AM
The .45 Raptor looks like a sweet cartridge just needs an AR10 host.

You would have to get a ruling from the DNR of the SBR vs pistol vs " grandfathered MI pistol".
The only advantage I see for a pistol vs SBR would be in the limited firearm zone.

A pistol is 9 rounds total (8+1) capacity and straight walled cartridges only, no case length restrictions.
A rifle is 6 rounds total (5+1) capacity straight walled cartridges only, WITH case length restrictions.

But my guess is, if it has a shoulder stock then it is a rifle and falls under those rules.

########
Limited Firearm Zone :
• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger
and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or
multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the
barrel and magazine combined.
• A firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow and arrow, crossbow and firearm.
Exceptions: See Muzzleloading Deer Seasons on pg. 19.
• A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum
case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.
#########

DP425
05-02-2016, 02:19 PM
That is in YOUR settings, there are 210 threads in this sub-forum.
Well that's strange!!!

The rules for the "limited firearms" zone sort of lump handguns and rifle together, what you are "calling it" will make little difference.

The limitation is on CASE type and length along with magazine capacity. All bottle-necked cases are out.

As for the case type and length- I'm no expert, but I AM 100% positive that case length restrictions DO NOT apply to pistols. ONLY to pistol caliber rifles. But yes, I do realize bottle necked cases are out.



Off the top of my head, I'm not sure how many calibers that can be chambered in a sm or lg pattern AR would exceed the pistol caliber rifle case limit and still be straight walled. But there may be some advantage to be had.

DP425
05-02-2016, 02:24 PM
The .45 Raptor looks like a sweet cartridge just needs an AR10 host.

You would have to get a ruling from the DNR of the SBR vs pistol vs " grandfathered MI pistol".
The only advantage I see for a pistol vs SBR would be in the limited firearm zone.

A pistol is 9 rounds total (8+1) capacity and straight walled cartridges only, no case length restrictions.
A rifle is 6 rounds total (5+1) capacity straight walled cartridges only, WITH case length restrictions.

But my guess is, if it has a shoulder stock then it is a rifle and falls under those rules.

########
Limited Firearm Zone :
• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger
and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or
multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the
barrel and magazine combined.
• A firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow and arrow, crossbow and firearm.
Exceptions: See Muzzleloading Deer Seasons on pg. 19.
• A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum
case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.
#########

And that's the rub. I haven't seen any sort of DNR law or administrative definition of what constitutes a pistol or rifle. The common sense conclusion would be that the definition in accordance to MI law would rule the day. But, the DNR isn't known to follow common sense. And because the law does in-deed mention "short barreled RIFLE", they could very well attempt to focus on that and ignore that it is also a pistol and required to be registered as such.

Michaelk
05-02-2016, 05:44 PM
Since you mentioned using a supressor, what would be the minimum barrel length for this cartridge for the suppressor you want to use? Would probably need to contact the manufacturer with that question.

The .45 Raptor meets the case length limitations so if you block your mag capacity to 5 an SBR or pistol would not make any difference.

oldmann1967
05-02-2016, 06:17 PM
Strange this is only the second thread for this sub-forum...


Anyway, I had been looking at the .45 Raptor for shotgun zone hunting with a rifle. I'd been leaning heavily toward a short barreled upper on an SBRed lower so I could easily run a can without having length be obnoxiously long.

Then it occurred to me... What if said SBR is required to be registered as a pistol in MI, and meets the MI pistol definition? Would that also make it a pistol for hunting purposes? If so, there are many better options out there.

And I guess that brings me to another consideration- assuming pistol registered SBR would pass as a pistol for hunting purposes, would that then mean my grandfather'ed SIG 556 would as well?

You only need to worry about pistol cartridge rifle rules when hunting g whitetail deer. You have yet to state what the species of game is.

Michaelk
05-02-2016, 08:47 PM
You only need to worry about pistol cartridge rifle rules when hunting g whitetail deer. You have yet to state what the species of game is.

True. Anyone up for rabbit hunting with 50BMG?

Shyster
05-02-2016, 11:14 PM
I'm building a .45 Raptor for use in limited zone. The barrel length will be 16" as the excellent ballistic performance requires that length--the only other standard barrel length according to Satern is 18 inches.

For suppression I have A Bowers VERS 50 with upgraded baffles on the way.

If you SBR it theoretically you could do a higher magazine capacity but you re defeating the purpose.

DP425
05-02-2016, 11:16 PM
Since you mentioned using a supressor, what would be the minimum barrel length for this cartridge for the suppressor you want to use? Would probably need to contact the manufacturer with that question.

The .45 Raptor meets the case length limitations so if you block your mag capacity to 5 an SBR or pistol would not make any difference.

Assuming you're using one of the rifle caliber .45cal cans (Silencerco Hybrid, or Bowers Vers 45/50), the barrel length should be able to be very, very short. If you're not using a rifle rated can... Well... you should be.

DP425
05-02-2016, 11:17 PM
You only need to worry about pistol cartridge rifle rules when hunting g whitetail deer. You have yet to state what the species of game is.

That is an important point. Wrongly, I assumed everyone would know I'm speaking about deer.

DP425
05-02-2016, 11:20 PM
I'm building a .45 Raptor for use in limited zone. The barrel length will be 16" as the excellent ballistic performance requires that length--the only other standard barrel length according to Satern is 18 inches.

For suppression I have A Bowers VERS 50 with upgraded baffles on the way.

If you SBR it theoretically you could do a higher magazine capacity but you re defeating the purpose.

The can will bring back some lost velocity, so the trade-off on say, an 11" with a good can may not be bad at all. Still going to be higher than the typical .460 revolver, and easier to shoot accurately.



But that aside- my original context to this, being able to skirt the case OAL limits on rifles may just be a moot point. I really don't know what better straight walled, rimless options would exist than .45 raptor.

Could perhaps build a longer .45 wildcat, able to launch longer more rifle style bullets, using the .308 case blown out. But I've thought about this before and it seems more trouble than it's worth... all based on a premise that the DNR won't drag my butt to court arguing that my pistol registered SBR is just a rifle and thus, I was illegally attempting to take game.

DEVIL DOG
05-09-2016, 10:20 AM
Strange this is only the second thread for this sub-forum...

I know I'm a 'puter dummy. What settings need to be tweaked to see all of the threads ?

Never mind, guess I'm not such a dummy after all.