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alexjahn
06-17-2016, 01:04 PM
Hello everyone,

I just got an AR-15 and am having trouble focusing on the sights. It seems I can only do it if I wear an eye patch. I have heard that there are higher end optics out there that will allow you to keep both eyes open. I think the trijicon ACOG might be one of them. I'm only looking to shoot up to 300yrds max and don't want to spend over $1,000 on a scope if I don't have to. Do any of you have experience with this? I've tired to train my eyes to just close one eye but so far that isn't working. Let me know what you guys think.

PhotoTom
06-17-2016, 01:09 PM
Hello everyone,

I just got an AR-15 and am having trouble focusing on the sights. It seems I can only do it if I wear an eye patch. I have heard that there are higher end optics out there that will allow you to keep both eyes open. I think the trijicon ACOG might be one of them. I'm only looking to shoot up to 300yrds max and don't want to spend over $1,000 on a scope if I don't have to. Do any of you have experience with this? I've tired to train my eyes to just close one eye but so far that isn't working. Let me know what you guys think.

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/company/unique_to_trijicon.php

alexjahn
06-17-2016, 01:58 PM
That's good to know. How do I distinguish which scopes can be used with both eyes open? Anyone know of other scope like this?

Fuel Fire Desire
06-17-2016, 06:27 PM
I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x. At 1x it's a true undistorted 1x. It looks like the reticle is just floating in the air like an EoTech. At 4x it's still comfortable to shoot both eyes open. Great substantiations on the reticle for range finding and hold over too. I bought it over an ACOG for the ability to go to 1x and never looked back.

JimSig
06-17-2016, 06:43 PM
As fuel said, most 1-4x good optics work fine with both eyes opened.. You have to train your eyes to work in this fashion.. I used to always use one eye when shooting handguns, and it took me sometime to shoot both eyes opened.. just a little practice and before you know it you can start shooting both eyes opened.

I1I1I11II
06-17-2016, 07:03 PM
Before you go optics crazy why don't you try tilting the weapon toward your dominant eye... it's cheaper and what your body demands. I doubt the optics will fix it anyway.

solarguy
06-17-2016, 07:35 PM
Before we get too far along, do you know which eye is your dominant eye? Has it ever been tested by someone that knows how?

And which is your dominant hand?

I'm an optometrist, so I can probably give you useful information regarding what works and what doesn't, depending on what's going on exactly.

I1I1I11II
06-17-2016, 09:10 PM
Before we get too far along, do you know which eye is your dominant eye? Has it ever been tested by someone that knows how?

And which is your dominant hand?

I'm an optometrist, so I can probably give you useful information regarding what works and what doesn't, depending on what's going on exactly.

The optics, if he doesn't make adjustments for his dominant eye yield the same results, no?

solarguy
06-17-2016, 09:25 PM
So far as I know, we don't know which is his dominant eye yet.

If he is trying to shoot right handed, and he's left eye dominant, he -might- be able to use a 1x device that allows both eyes to be open, and see the red dot or whatever. But anything with magnification will be problematic if he is strongly left eye dominant and tries to use the right eye in the scope.

As a general rule, eye dominance is very analogous to hand dominance. Some people can, with minor training, perform tasks right or left handed competently.

Likewise, some folks non-dominant eye can be quite functional in a magnifying optic. But some not at all.

In some cases, it is easier to learn to shoot left handed than to use the non-dominant eye in a magnifying scope.

There are subtleties...

dice
06-17-2016, 09:52 PM
So far as I know, we don't know which is his dominant eye yet.

As a general rule, eye dominance is very analogous to hand dominance. Some people can, with minor training, perform tasks right or left handed competently.

In some cases, it is easier to learn to shoot left handed than to use the non-dominant eye in a magnifying scope.


Sometimes eye dominance can be a real pain to figure out what works best as well. I'm right handed, left eye dominate. I shoot long guns left handed, always have. But I shoot pistols right handed, with my left eye open. Sounds strange to most, but it's worked for me for years.


Dice

solarguy
06-17-2016, 10:02 PM
Exactly, every case is a little different. There is no one-size-fits-all rule that fixes the dominance issue.

VIGILANT
06-17-2016, 11:54 PM
All the red-dot sights work well with both eyes open.

alexjahn
06-20-2016, 07:52 AM
So I am right handed...but I am left eye dominant. I don't want to switch to shooting left hand so that's why I'm considering a scope so that I might be able to use my right eye or just shoot with both eyes open. Apperciate all the info so far.

Thanks

alexjahn
06-20-2016, 08:48 AM
Seems like I should try shooting left hand first to see if I can get comfortable doing that. If not maybe go to the store and try to look through a few optic setups and see what feels most comfortable. I don't want to switch to left hand shooting and I feel an eye patch is kinda impractical. Hope I can find something that works.

solarguy
06-20-2016, 09:39 AM
What kind of shooting are we talking about? Punching paper? Shooting a deer? Competition? Plinking? 3 gun?

For those who are right handed and (strongly) left eye dominant, it is very unlikely you will be able to any optic that gives magnification using your non-dominant eye (the right eye in this case.)

If your non-dominant eye doesn't suck too bad (a technical term...) a red dot might work fine. But, depending on what kind of shooting you're doing, at 300 yd, the dot is pretty big and will literally cover up a "small" target. There are some "red dot" sights that give you a circle instead of a dot. That helps with the covering up of the target because the dot is too big.

Shooting lefty isn't as bad as it sounds, and is a useful skill anyway. And then you can have any sight, magnified or otherwise. My wife has exactly that problem and is very competent shooting a rifle lefty.

The only really bad combo is a righty bolt action held and used left handed.

If you shoot an AR lefty, and don't like getting popped in the face with ejected cartridges, you can put a bigger deflector on.

hunterspirit
06-20-2016, 11:46 AM
I had a Leupold 1 - 4 x 20 VX HOG that worked well with both eyes open. I just couldn't get over HOG written on the crosshairs

dice
06-21-2016, 08:41 PM
I think you might be surprised how easy it to shoot left handed if that's your dominate eye. I have learned over many years to shoot with both hands/eyes, but it took a lot of work. The controls on an AR are very easy to use left handed, and the brass will fly right past your face on a properly running rifle. The only time I ever got hit in the face was in basic training, when they tried to make the left handed guys use a big ass brass deflector.
Bolt guns can be a challenge, but it's not as bad as most think it is.
I'd be happy to give you any pointers you'd like if you're interested.


Dice

alexjahn
06-23-2016, 11:48 AM
Yes and help shooting lefty would be appreciated. I'm gonna go to the range today and try a few things out. Maybe even try looking through a few different optics at the store. Thanks for all the help soo far. Hopefully I can just learn to shoot lefty.

dice
06-25-2016, 11:11 PM
Let us know how it goes for you.


Dice

MJssr
06-26-2016, 09:58 AM
i had to same problem as the OP. learned to shoot off my right shoulder as a kid and sometime in my teens switched to shooting long guns off my left shoulder and hand guns with my right hand. im left eye dominate too.

here is a quick way to determine eye dominance.

http://www.diyphotography.net/a-neat-trick-to-determine-your-dominant-eye/

just make sure the object your focusing on is 10+ yards away

alexjahn
06-27-2016, 07:19 PM
Well I think im doomed for a pirate patch. No stores have an ACOG I can look through and even if they did thats a lot of money. Not being able to close my eyes is just a bummer.

PhotoTom
06-28-2016, 12:45 PM
Well I think im doomed for a pirate patch. No stores have an ACOG I can look through and even if they did thats a lot of money. Not being able to close my eyes is just a bummer.

I am all the way down in south/west Wayne County, but I would be willing to meet you in the Southfield/Farmington Hills/Novi area if you'd like to look though my ACOG.

Maybe some other members with an ACOG that are closer would be willing to meet with you so you can give it an eyeball…?

Veteran
06-28-2016, 05:28 PM
I have a used one I bought on MGO. I liked it so much that I just bought another one for a new 5.56 rifle. It has tritium and fiber optic illumination, so no batteries to worry about. It fits my needs perfectly. With both eyes open, look at your target and bring the weapon up and you'll absolutely see the dot. Full field of view and instant target acquisition. Under $600. Some say headlights or a bright flashlight will wash out the dot at night, I haven't had that problem. If so would just use the outer ring on the sight and aim in the middle. It's a large sight, that's why I like it. Good luck.

Fuel Fire Desire
06-28-2016, 07:03 PM
I have a used one I bought on MGO. I liked it so much that I just bought another one for a new 5.56 rifle. It has tritium and fiber optic illumination, so no batteries to worry about. It fits my needs perfectly. With both eyes open, look at your target and bring the weapon up and you'll absolutely see the dot. Full field of view and instant target acquisition. Under $600. Some say headlights or a bright flashlight will wash out the dot at night, I haven't had that problem. If so would just use the outer ring on the sight and aim in the middle. It's a large sight, that's why I like it. Good luck.


I had one and liked it. A lot.

I had washout issues on intense sun days shooting from under an awning into direct sunlit areas. But if the coil is exposed to any light matching that of the target the illumination was perfect, not too bright or too dim. Either in absolute darkness or full sun. I used it on an AR with a fixed front sight post. Since the RX30 cowitnesses, I used the front post to help find the dot in washout conditions.

The only other gripe I have is 6.5 moa is a BIG dot if you're trying to shoot beyond 100 yards. Though, the AR I built was built to shoot 0-100 yards, and in that role it worked great. HORRIBLE on my FAL (sat way too high).

Veteran
06-29-2016, 10:26 AM
I forgot to mention co-witnessing with your iron sights, my new Sig MCX has pop-up sights/RX30 and will be used for CQT. That dot does turn into a basketball at over 100 yds.

Therealkoop
07-01-2016, 10:19 PM
You can use any scope with both eyes open. The cross dominance is the issue as noted by others.

It seems like most competition shooters I see that are cross dominant do "odd" things. They usually shoot pistols right handed with a counter-clockwise cant, and then fire long guns off the left shoulder. It would probably be beneficial in the long run to adopt a technique like that. Holding right shoulder and going both eyes open with cross dominance can cause offset issues in POA/POI.

solarguy
07-02-2016, 08:12 AM
"You can use any scope with both eyes open."

While this statement is true for many shooters with normal binocular vision, there are lots of patients that do not have normal binocular vision that experience visual confusion if they try that. It is just not true for all shooters.

Fuel Fire Desire
07-02-2016, 11:30 PM
"You can use any scope with both eyes open."

While this statement is true for many shooters with normal binocular vision, there are lots of patients that do not have normal binocular vision that experience visual confusion if they try that. It is just not true for all shooters.


Something Ive noticed....

With my 1-4x, both of my eyes process input just fine, and in a binocular fashion.

On my precision rimfire with a 24x, the eye that isn't looking through the scope 'goes blind' for lack of a better term. When I shoot that rifle, Im behind the scope for hours at a time. If I try to close one eye it gives me focus problems after a while. If I leave both open it doesn't, but the eye that isn't looking through the scope isn't processing any information. I can tell that theres light, but its as if my brain 'turns off' all visual input from it and only processes what it sees through the scoped eye. When Im 'in the zone' with breathing and mindset, I notice the eyelid goes half mast too, even if the scoped eye is wide and normal.

On the flip side, if I try to shoot my 1-4x both eyes open but from the opposite shoulder...I have the damnedest time picking up the reticle. Everything is lined up, but my brain doesn't want to accept a reticle from that eye.

.....maybe Im just weird.

solarguy
07-03-2016, 06:11 AM
Something Ive noticed....

With my 1-4x, both of my eyes process input just fine, and in a binocular fashion.

On my precision rimfire with a 24x, the eye that isn't looking through the scope 'goes blind' for lack of a better term. When I shoot that rifle, Im behind the scope for hours at a time. If I try to close one eye it gives me focus problems after a while. If I leave both open it doesn't, but the eye that isn't looking through the scope isn't processing any information. I can tell that theres light, but its as if my brain 'turns off' all visual input from it and only processes what it sees through the scoped eye. When Im 'in the zone' with breathing and mindset, I notice the eyelid goes half mast too, even if the scoped eye is wide and normal.

On the flip side, if I try to shoot my 1-4x both eyes open but from the opposite shoulder...I have the damnedest time picking up the reticle. Everything is lined up, but my brain doesn't want to accept a reticle from that eye.

.....maybe Im just weird.

Or....binocular vision is complicated as all get out, and every person/shooter/patient has unique needs and unique solutions.

Good observation that your "off" eye just turns off. The technical term is suppression. Some shooters can't do that neat little trick, thus they cannot keep both eyes open on a scope that provides magnification. Sometimes, the cooperation between the two eyes is so tenuous, that even the slightly different color and brightness of a red dot without magnification throws a wrench into their stereopsis and the vision system goes into confusion and double vision.

Therealkoop
07-03-2016, 11:15 PM
"You can use any scope with both eyes open."

While this statement is true for many shooters with normal binocular vision, there are lots of patients that do not have normal binocular vision that experience visual confusion if they try that. It is just not true for all shooters.

Again any scope can be used with both eyes open. The OP is cross dominant, and as you said there are other issues in play that can cause issues, but its not the scope.

LokiThirteen
08-15-2016, 07:52 PM
I use a Leopold hog scope that is 1-4, i shoot both eyes open without any problem.