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flhpi
10-14-2016, 08:07 PM
I'm considering this model.
http://www.armasight.com/night-vision/night-vision-monoculars/armasight-spark-core

Has anyone had a direct comparison to a std. Gen 1? That could be had for around $300 less.

westcliffe01
10-14-2016, 10:00 PM
What do you expect to do with it ? The capability of a gen 1 system, especially with so little light gathering capability is going to be very poor ?

I have a 6x gen 3 weapons sight with a 4" main optical element and even with that, detail is limited if all you have is starlight. With a partial moon out, it is like daylight, but with a shallow depth of field. Forget about being able to see all the way across a field without re-focusing.

Now me, I am trying to spot coyotes which blend in very well and tend to keep to the edges of fields in the first place where they may be shaded, even at night.

It seeing anything at all requires the use of an illuminator (going to be the case for a gen 1 unit like what you listed), I would find its application extremely limited.

Now a thermal monocular would do considerably better and they do not need the same kind of light gathering power since they are not using image intensifiers like old style NV.

My suggestion is to save and get the best system you can possibly afford. Otherwise you will be disappointed.

flhpi
10-15-2016, 05:03 AM
This isn't for any serious application. Mostly just to get around in the Am and pm to and from my stand.
Are you still hunting that sheep farm?

westcliffe01
10-15-2016, 05:02 PM
I was out there the past 2 weekends with the tractor and brush mower cutting fields that are 3' high so it is possible to see coyotes at all.... Trust me, read a few reviews on G1 NV.

Here is one on YT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45QzzMsFMA

scecil
10-16-2016, 08:16 AM
What do you expect to do with it ? The capability of a gen 1 system, especially with so little light gathering capability is going to be very poor ?

I have a 6x gen 3 weapons sight with a 4" main optical element and even with that, detail is limited if all you have is starlight. With a partial moon out, it is like daylight, but with a shallow depth of field. Forget about being able to see all the way across a field without re-focusing.

Now me, I am trying to spot coyotes which blend in very well and tend to keep to the edges of fields in the first place where they may be shaded, even at night.

It seeing anything at all requires the use of an illuminator (going to be the case for a gen 1 unit like what you listed), I would find its application extremely limited.

Now a thermal monocular would do considerably better and they do not need the same kind of light gathering power since they are not using image intensifiers like old style NV.

My suggestion is to save and get the best system you can possibly afford. Otherwise you will be disappointed.


I really don't want to hijack this thread by going off on a thermal imaging monocular talk, but what is your recommendation for a thermal imaging unit?

You seem to have a handle on this stuff!

Something I've thought about getting for quite a while.

PM me if you don't want repost here.

Thanks!

westcliffe01
10-16-2016, 09:52 AM
i bought an ATN 6x G3 weapon sight a few years ago. This one http://www.opticsplanet.com/atn-ares6-3-nightvsion-weapon-sight.html At the time, it cost nearly $4000, now it is down to $3129. Still a lot of money. Back then, the least expensive thermal weapons sight was $8500 (with at least 3x magnification). You can still damage the intensifier tube by pointing it at a too bright light source or if an idiot were to turn it on during daylight with the protective cover removed. Such damage is not covered by the warranty.

Now you can get a 2-16 thermal sight with 640x512 resolution for less than $5000 http://www.opticsplanet.com/armasight-zeus-2-thermal-imaging-rifles-scope.html

Remember that you can use a thermal sight in daylight, fog, smoke etc. Dont be trying that with a NV scope. I would say that the cost penalty of going with a thermal unit is now so small that I am not sure that it is worth going to a G3 NV system anymore. The thermal unit is more compact and its working principle defeats camoflage, whereas you still battle with that with a NV system. You get far better confirmation of any living creatures out in the field, even it is a black horse on an overcast moonless night. Accidentally shooting livestock when predator hunting is a very real problem/concern once you understand the limitations of trying to hunt with predator lights and to a lesser extent with G3 NV equipment.

I have not made the dive into thermal sights yet, just got through a very expensive divorce. But that is definitely the way I will be going. Right now none of the weapons I use is compatible with a clip on system (MI prohibition on centerfire at night) so it would still have to be a weapons sight.

Shyster
10-16-2016, 10:26 AM
I picked up a FLIR thermal sight a few weeks ago planning on using it next month for deer season :)

fr3db3ar
10-16-2016, 11:21 AM
If you're not afraid to invest a little $$ pulsar makes some fine thermal equipment. I have a monocular and a scope and you'll be amazed at what you'll see that you would never see with night vision.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

chosos
11-01-2016, 09:00 PM
If you are serious about getting something you will want to check some of the forums downsouth like lonestar boars or even ar15.com's NV forum. With thermal and nv gear being ITAR restricted and cost prohibitive, it is a fairly niche user base in the civillian world, and even less so in michigan since we dont have the night hunts like down south.

Ive had a few thermal scopes in various resolutions and currently run a FLIR RS64. I have been contemplating selling it to fund an IR Hunter or IR Patrol LE100 because the oled screen is better than the lcd screen on my FLIR. The RS64 is great, but is a little overbuilt for my needs.

With current pricing, i wouldnt purchase anything under 240 core unless it was next to free, and would prefer 336 or 640 core. Therm-App by Opgal is a handheld 336 core thermal camera that plugs into your android tablet/phone and is priced around 999. I still have mine and it is a great value and bang for buck, unless you absolutely need a weapon scope, and then you automatically start around $2k.

As for the OP and that scope - they are just ok. The gen 1 and digital stuff is only usable with lots of supplemental IR light, so plan on getting a nice bright IR light and spending $100-150 on the IR Torch and you will like the device a whole lot more. Without an IR torch, you might actually regret the purchase.

In terms of this newer gen1 vs old gen 1, the resolution is better. Cascade gen1 tubes have good resolution but produce fish eye distortion on the outside perimeter so only the center resolution is good on the cascade setups.

Here is a good review to better understand what to expect. https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=416596

As always, I would advocte buying gen 2+ or gen 3 used before buying new gen 1. I have nothing but great things to say about armasight's support, packaging, etc. NV is an expensive and addicting hobby so good luck. :)