Opinions on a few safes?

[castrotikon]

Currently in the market for a safe around $1200 mark, needs to be able to fit about 12 long guns, as well as shelving for ammo and handguns. Door organizer is a plus as well. To preface this, I do have an alarm system with monitoring so I'm not relying entirely on the safe. So far, these are the options I'm looking at, I'd love to hear if anyone has any personal experience with some of these lines and can say whether they are garbage or a good value (or if I've left something out within this price range). I'd also be curious to hear thoughts on an electronic vs. combo lock. Most people seem to have issues on almost every safe with the electronic lock, quick access to my safe isn't on my priority list so I don't mind having the dial but I'm not sure if it's necessarily more reliable.

-Liberty Revere 23: I've heard lots of good things about liberty and they have a solid warranty but they're also easily the most expensive and this one is already pushing me above what I wanted to budget (I'm not really a fan of their Centurion line)
-Amsec TF6032, about $400 less than the Revere, fire rating is 10 minutes less though. I've also heard a lot of good things about Amsec though.
-Browning SP15: I know Browning is supposed to make solid higher end safes but I don't if the same applies to their budget safes, there isn't much out there on this safe and I've heard mixed things on their lower end safes
-Winchester safes, specifically the Ranger 19 or 26: same thing, higher end safes seem good but I don't know as much with their lower end safes
-Steelwater: I haven't heard much about the name before, some reviews out there claim they are a good value for around $1000.

I'm pretty sure Revere is made in the USA, I'm not sure about the Amsec. Pretty sure the Winchester, Browning, and Steelwater are all made in China.

[Musta Demoni]

Not sure why you're not a fan of the Liberty Centurion line, but that's what I have and I'm guessing I have around 12 long guns in it right now, about half of them are scoped. Paid about $500 about 5 years ago at Gander Mountain black Friday sale. Have 4 pistols in there in the door organizer and still have tons of room on the shelf and more space left in the door organizer.

I don't store ammo in my safe anymore... got some old metal school lockers for that task.

But I love my Centurion. Works great, looks great, made in the USA. Can't beat it. Certainly wouldn't think I'd need to spend $1,200 to store a dozen long guns.

You could probably find one like mine for half of what you're looking to spend and then you can buy another gun instead of overspending on a safe.

Just my .02.

[castrotikon]

The centurion is a nice safe but I didn't really consider it given the 14 gauge steel...almost every review I've read or similar thread considers 12 gauge steel sort of the "minimum" for showing down an attacker.

[Musta Demoni]

The centurion is a nice safe but I didn't really consider it given the 14 gauge steel...almost every review I've read or similar thread considers 12 gauge steel sort of the "minimum" for showing down an attacker.


So not to sound condescending but it sounds like the reviews you've read were based on comments from some level 10 forum-bros... honestly I can't even comprehend the term "attacker" being used with regard to a gun safe. Like a lot of firearm (and many other) related topics, people on the internet take things to the absolute Nth degree. Similar to those who tell you that you can't carry a 9mm because it doesn't have the "stopping power" and other such nonsense.

Go take a look at a Centurion and, for the duration of that time, forget you ever read any of those reviews and ask yourself as your examining it if, in the real world, would it suit your needs of storing your firearms and protecting them from any realistic threat to their security and/or fire.

Also consider the odds of anyone actually even ever breaking into your home... then the odds of anyone making any attempt whatsoever to remove and/or break into your safe... then consider the odds of them being equipped/able to even break into a low-budget safe. Those are very low odds, so unless your situation is one that's much different than the average firearm owner, I'm guessing you don't need to really concern yourself with your safe being attacked. The presence of a strong looking safe in itself is often a successful deterrent that would make any intruder/thief focus more on the readily available items in your home, such as small electronics or other such items.

[castrotikon]

So not to sound condescending but it sounds like the reviews you've read were based on comments from some level 10 forum-bros... honestly I can't even comprehend the term "attacker" being used with regard to a gun safe. Like a lot of firearm (and many other) related topics, people on the internet take things to the absolute Nth degree. Similar to those who tell you that you can't carry a 9mm because it doesn't have the "stopping power" and other such nonsense.

Go take a look at a Centurion and, for the duration of that time, forget you ever read any of those reviews and ask yourself as your examining it if, in the real world, would it suit your needs of storing your firearms and protecting them from any realistic threat to their security and/or fire.

Also consider the odds of anyone actually even ever breaking into your home... then the odds of anyone making any attempt whatsoever to remove and/or break into your safe... then consider the odds of them being equipped/able to even break into a low-budget safe. Those are very low odds, so unless your situation is one that's much different than the average firearm owner, I'm guessing you don't need to really concern yourself with your safe being attacked. The presence of a strong looking safe in itself is often a successful deterrent that would make any intruder/thief focus more on the readily available items in your home, such as small electronics or other such items.

That's a fair assessment, and I've kind of come to the same conclusion when viewing forums...particularly safe review forums in particular. There seems to be a common attitude of if you're not locking it away in a 2 ton safe made of 4 gauge steel then you're just wasting your money on a lower end safe.

[mikeb32]

You might want to check on Brahma Safes. I bought mine in Pinconning at Able Safe, No relation to the other Able in Warren, I don't think.

[togo]

Liberty is my first choice, I have learned you get what you pay for in most cases. Liberty has a great video on YouTube on the durability of their safes compared to other competitors. The fire test will sell it every time in my opinion. I did cheap out and go with the standard tumbler instead of the more expensive digital lock which later in life now wearing cheaters becomes a pain if I cant find them, one good thing is my wife cannot figure out how to get in even though I taught her for about 2 hours.

[Freetime]

Liberty is my first choice, I have learned you get what you pay for in most cases. Liberty has a great video on YouTube on the durability of their safes compared to other competitors. The fire test will sell it every time in my opinion. I did cheap out and go with the standard tumbler instead of the more expensive digital lock which later in life now wearing cheaters becomes a pain if I cant find them, one good thing is my wife cannot figure out how to get in even though I taught her for about 2 hours.

I bought my Liberty from Able Safe in Warren many years ago. I also went with the standard tumbler which is my only complaint. It's a PITA to get it open some times, yeah a real bitch. I would definitely get the digital lock instead of the standard for sure. They do make a good safe.

[Musta Demoni]

The Centurion I have has no electronics, so I guess that's a standard tumbler, but I've never had any difficulty whatsoever opening it. YMMV, but that's been my experience.

[Sledhead]

You might want to check on Brahma Safes. I bought mine in Pinconning at Able Safe, No relation to the other Able in Warren, I don't think.

He has pretty good prices.

[oldmann1967]

I really have a difficult time choosing any modern safe. They are so easily defeated. I helps if they are bolted down and have walls built on four sides. I would look for an old safe if at all possible. Solid steel, not sheet metal. Most lack the shelving and racks, but can be easily built. Just an idea.

[Musta Demoni]

I really have a difficult time choosing any modern safe. They are so easily defeated.

They are? Are you talking about the ultra cheap Stack-on units, like the ones at Wal-Mart, or are you talking about the medium to high price range safes such as the ones at Cabelas, TC, etc.?

Unless I'm ignorant (quite possible), I'm guessing I could give any average person on the street access to my whole mechanics tool set and give them 3 hours and I'll bet not one in a hundred gets my Centurion open.

Like I said before, I'm starting to think a lot of this safe talk is internet extremeism (not to be rude). Easily defeated, at least IMO, would mean that pretty much any fool with little to no equipment or skill could get my guns in 30 minutes or less. If it's only "easily defeated" by skilled individuals posessing the needed equipment, then what you define as easy and how I define it are not inline.

But maybe I'm wrong. What are we talking about here with regard to easily defeated?

[oldmann1967]

They are? Are you talking about the ultra cheap Stack-on units, like the ones at Wal-Mart, or are you talking about the medium to high price range safes such as the ones at Cabelas, TC, etc.?

Unless I'm ignorant (quite possible), I'm guessing I could give any average person on the street access to my whole mechanics tool set and give them 3 hours and I'll bet not one in a hundred gets my Centurion open.

Like I said before, I'm starting to think a lot of this safe talk is internet extremeism (not to be rude). Easily defeated, at least IMO, would mean that pretty much any fool with little to no equipment or skill could get my guns in 30 minutes or less. If it's only "easily defeated" by skilled individuals posessing the needed equipment, then what you define as easy and how I define it are not inline.

But maybe I'm wrong. What are we talking about here with regard to easily defeated?

With a 3' crowbar and four minutes I could have a great collection.

https://youtu.be/nBhOjWHbD6M

[Musta Demoni]

With a 3' crowbar and four minutes I could have a great collection.

https://youtu.be/nBhOjWHbD6M


Yeah, I'm still not worried. 2 guys with huge prybars who definitely had some experience doing this. I still think worrying about something like that is extremeism. This is not the kind of thing that happens with any frequency anywhere in the United States and concerning yourself with this kind of thing simply isn't a realistic fear. 99.9% of any intruders would be deterred by any $500+ safe. They likely wouldn't even try it.

What are the odds of the following:

* Odds of your home ever getting broken into?

* Odds of someone breaking into your home with the intent/ability/time to open such a safe?

The answer is pretty low. Again, everyone here can go to the Nth degree to make an argument for/against something.

I could make an argument that carrying a 9mm for protection is completely useless because I'm sure I can show you a video of someone in body armor surviving 9mm fire, but what are the odds that if I was ever attacked (very unlikely) that my attacker would be wearing body armor (beyond extremely unlikely)?

Internet extremeism.

Again, people need to consider the reality of the threat here.

[oldmann1967]

Yeah, I'm still not worried. 2 guys with huge prybars who definitely had some experience doing this. I still think worrying about something like that is extremeism. This is not the kind of thing that happens with any frequency anywhere in the United States and concerning yourself with this kind of thing simply isn't a realistic fear. 99.9% of any intruders would be deterred by any $500+ safe. They likely wouldn't even try it.

What are the odds of the following:

* Odds of your home ever getting broken into?

* Odds of someone breaking into your home with the intent/ability/time to open such a safe?

The answer is pretty low. Again, everyone here can go to the Nth degree to make an argument for/against something.

I could make an argument that carrying a 9mm for protection is completely useless because I'm sure I can show you a video of someone in body armor surviving 9mm fire, but what are the odds that if I was ever attacked (very unlikely) that my attacker would be wearing body armor (beyond extremely unlikely)?

Internet extremeism.

Again, people need to consider the reality of the threat here.

I agree with most of your statements. Wait until you have all of your firearms stolen. Been there done that. Admittedly, no safe breaking was involved.

[Roundballer]

A safe, even the very top of the line, is just a deterrent. Given the time and will....

http://cdn.gunsafereviewsguy.com/gsrg/_files/uploads/saw-attack_browning-prosteel.jpg

http://sawreviewed.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Reciprocating-Saw-Blades-1502.jpg

[Musta Demoni]

A safe, even the very top of the line, is just a deterrent. Given the time and will....

This is true as well. Ultimately, a safe is nothing more than a deterrent. A very good one, but nothing more. Ultimately, it should just be 1 part of your overall security program. That program consists of many things. Where you live... how secure the rest of your home is (locks, cameras, alarms, etc)... how you conduct yourself... are you discreet with regard to your possessions... do you know your neighbors... are you on good terms with them... do you have dogs...

It's just one part of an overall plan to keep your firearms and other valuables secure. If someone breaks into your home like the 2 guys with 4 foot prybars in that video, another part of your plan has already failed... somehow a bad guy (or guys) found out you had a safe full of goodies and they targeted you. Had that not happened, you'd still have your guns. Random petty criminals who just broke into your home randomly would neither have the tools, know-how, or even motivation to try cracking your safe. They're going to take the path of least resistance and take the easy stuff... your laptop, iPad, TV, etc.

[AxlMyk]

Random petty criminals who just broke into your home randomly would neither have the tools, know-how, or even motivation to try cracking your safe. They're going to take the path of least resistance and take the easy stuff... your laptop, iPad, TV, etc.
Completely agree.
It was mentioned here or another thread that where you put the safe can help determine how safe it really is.
Like in a corner of a spare room, office, basement, etc.

We had a dozen break-ins on our street several years ago. Those with safes said they weren't touched.
The lunkheads even took a couple piggy banks. Easy to carry stuff is what they're looking for.

[Garry219]

I'm not sure what brand my safe is. It's at my other house. But, when I bought it I was told to stay away from safes that are welded together at the top corners. You can tell which ones are because they have a sharp 90 degree bend. I guess this is a weak point for a sledge hammer. My safe's top and sides are all one piece of bent steel. The top corners have a nice radius where the one piece of steel was bent and formed.

[Begood03]

I have two Browning safes bought in the 90s. Could someone break into them? With enough time, yes.

[Viking]

If you consider amsec as an option, also consider sturdysafe? they are to all of the review and listed detail very .. Solid is the most apt word to describe them, I have since learned that a lot of safes sold in stores especially big name safes are rolled edge metal to give appearance of thicker stock. Big name safes stopped doing solid .25" doors in favor of wrapping sheet around drywall or other fire resistant material and other fancy stuff (edit: marketing was the word I was looking for) to make them more appealing to customers several years ago. Sturdysafe's largest drawbacks are they don't advertise so they're hard to find and they don't bother paying for UL ratings (most safes only get a UL on the lock anyways and advertise a UL rating assuming that you'll believe it's also for fire rating). The sturdy safes are also pretty well customizable in terms of how much security you want if you want fire barrier or plug holes pre drilled etc. I was actually just browsing this section of the forum to see if anyone else mentions experience with them as I am looking at purchasing the 2419 for a closet.

Some amsec is made in USA, but not sure if exclusively made in USA, I think sturdysafe is exclusively made USA.

[Viking]

On a continued note the only verifiable rating I could find for safes was a California "RSC"? Which requires that the safe be capable of delaying entrance by a "couple of minutes" with basic hand tools, which means a bigger guy like myself who pounds metals into shapes as a hobby could defeat a big store sheet metal box with spot welds into a Chinese takeout box in 5 minutes. Does your security system have a five minute response time? Amsec has some models that are pretty serious sturdy safe looks like it starts at serious and has higher options.

[MAG]

Anybody have any real-world experience with Steelwater? Price is attractive but that's unimportant if the product is a POS...

[castrotikon]

Anybody have any real-world experience with Steelwater? Price is attractive but that's unimportant if the product is a POS...

I think a lot of people shy away from Steelwater since they are made in China, but I've heard good things about them as well for the price. I'm not necessarily convinced that just because it's made in the US it's inherently a superior product. That being said, since I started this thread, I figured I'd chime in and state I ended up going slightly above my original budget and purchased a Browning Hunter 26. There's definitely some room for improvement on it, but overall I'm pretty happy with it.

[MAG]

Thanks for your reply. I'm weighing the purchase of either a Liberty Centurion or a Steelwater. Not looking to make a huge investment...

[dave7120]

make sure you buy one a size too big and not one size too small, leave room for an expanding collection.

[castrotikon]

make sure you buy one a size too big and not one size too small, leave room for an expanding collection.

Agreed, and depending on your setup, it may be worth getting a cheaper ammo "locker" and just use the safe for firearms.

And as any safe owner will tell you, even if it says it holds "12,20,24 guns"...it won't.

[EricVincent]

I use the Brahma safe and I am okay with it