Waterproof

[Gunz]

Snap On has a safe that indicates it is water resistant and heat resistant, total defense line, I believe. I remember reading somewhere here that most damage done in a fire is water based when the firemen (firepeople?) Put the fire out. Yet, I don't see anyone ever recommending these. It seems to me this would be an important feature but it's not discussed at all. Why is that? Should this not be a check list item when purchasing? Looking right now probably purchase later this year.

[DrScaryGuy]

if it's the one i'm thinking (the 36 gun stackon total defense one i have in my basement) it is important to note that it is only "waterproof" to a couple feet deep. the upper edge does not have any kind of seal on it, as that would probably make for strange pressure issues inside vs outside the safe. they also say it needs to be bolted to the floor to remain "waterproof" so I suppose they just mean that in a couple feet of water it will start to float and tip over.
I wanted to buy another one a while back, but had a hard time finding one with an actual combination lock rather than a digital keypad. I like real locks for some reason, so I didn't buy it.

When I bought mine, I got it at dunhams and managed to sweet talk the manager into letting me apply a 20% off coupon, backed a pickup truck into the loading dock, and drove away as a satisfied customer.
You'll want a moving company or strong buddy and a stronger furniture dolly to help you move it though. they weigh 600lbs or so. And mine would not fit through my 30" back door, or interior doorways, until I took the safe door off. That was "easy" though, just open it and lift it off. Navigating the stairs was the hard part.

[Gunz]

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking. I think it was 2-3 feet of water but with the drains and such in my basement, I would expect that to be enough, but I wouldn't know. I've never seen a house fire or the aftermath up close.

With the door off, was it, I know easy isn't the right word, but not bad to move down the stairs? I would imagine the door and structure would each need to be dollied down. I have no problems anchoring to my floor. I would probably do that to any safe I buy.

How do you like the safe? Is it easy to configure to your desires? Can you add features, like lights, or does that ruin the water resistance?

[DrScaryGuy]

I've got an older one that doesn't have lights or electrical plugs or door pockets, but it has 2 sides a couple of barrel holders, and came with 3 or 4 adjustable shelves. The new models are much nicer and have the stuff you're asking about. I've started alternating rifles up/down/up/down to try to make more space, because "36" is a very optimistic number if you put them all in facing the same way. I've started leaving "home defense rifles" in the corners of my rooms just to keep some space in there... I really need a 2nd safe.
The door is where a lot of the weight is, stackon says it's about 1/3 of the total. makes sense since it needs to hold the fireproofing AND the locking bolts. 2 healthy people should have no problem lifting it off if it's only around 200lbs, it's just awkward.

[ArtsNCrash]

I think it was 2-3 feet of water but with the drains and such in my basement, I would expect that to be enough, but I wouldn't know. I've never seen a house fire or the aftermath up close...

Well, I can tell you that it is easy to fill a basement during a fire. This all depends on the extent of the fire, the scene commander's decision making processes, the skill of the department, and a bunch of other factors.

The goal is minimal damage but if the house is fully involved, they may just sit back and let the truck guns do the work. Those push upwards of 1000 to 2000 gallons a minute per truck.

I used a swimming pool calculator for this. Figuring a basement with 1000 sq feet and filling to 3 feet is 22440 gallons. At 1000 gallons per minute... 22 minutes, 26 seconds. ;-)

[Norton]

In the case of fire the door gaskets will swell from the heat. That is supposed to protect the contents from damage.
At least that is what is advertised on most of the Liberties. Check some of the Liberty literature.
I have seen firearms that were in a safe during a house fire. Not pretty. None were salvageable.
Boy, they also stank of smoke.

[Gunz]

Well, I can tell you that it is easy to fill a basement during a fire. This all depends on the extent of the fire, the scene commander's decision making processes, the skill of the department, and a bunch of other factors.

The goal is minimal damage but if the house is fully involved, they may just sit back and let the truck guns do the work. Those push upwards of 1000 to 2000 gallons a minute per truck.

I used a swimming pool calculator for this. Figuring a basement with 1000 sq feet and filling to 3 feet is 22440 gallons. At 1000 gallons per minute... 22 minutes, 26 seconds. ;-)

Brillant. I never even thought about trying to calculate the amount of water. Now, if only I knew the drainage rate of my basement drains...

[Gunz]

Was this because of the fire/smoke damage or because of water damage? I will do some reading on the Liberty now. Thanks.

[10x25mm]

A close friend's house containing five large 'National' brand gun safes burned in 2002. The upper floors and roof were completely burned and collapsed into the basement where his safes were located. Only the brick exterior walls remained above ground. The heat obturating seals on the safe doors completely excluded water and fume from the safes' interiors. These safes were not rated as being waterproof, but they had water lines about 18 inches up from their bottoms. The obturating seals maintained their integrity for 48 hours, until we were able to get a rough terrain crane in and lift the safes (with their contents) out of his ruined basement.

The most damaging agent created during a house fire is the combustion products of PVC drain piping. The PVC combustion products combine with the fire fighting water to form hydrochloric acid fume. This acid fume corroded my friend's reloading equipment beyond repair despite it being in an area of his basement untouched by fire and water. The exteriors of his gun safes looked like they had undergone a copper chloride accelerated salt spray durability test. Even nonmagnetic AISI Type 3XX stainless steel items were severely corroded.

[VIGILANT]

Brillant. I never even thought about trying to calculate the amount of water. Now, if only I knew the drainage rate of my basement drains...


Odds are pretty high, that the drains would quickly be plugged by debris.

[Revdrshad]

I have the Total defense safe also. (Gray and black, "Waterproof" model.)

It's interesting to note, that along with everything that has already been mentioned, mine has vent holes in the back, about 24" up from the bottom. I believe that's why they only talk about "2 feet waterproof."

It's not the heaviest to move. I think it's closer to 500 lbs. (So, door about 175-200 lbs.)
It's a nice safe, with the manual combination, but I think it may be just a little thinner than a Liberty or other bigger names. (More hollow sounding when you knock on it.)
I think the newer style has 1.5" bolts that retract into the door. I have the older style with about 1" bolts.
Good luck with your decision.