SB 0245 Allow spring-assisted knife

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2017-SB-0245)
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 3/15/2017 REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY

[Roundballer]

Regardless of the list of sections that are affected, the only thing this bill does is repeal 750.226a - the ban on "auto knives".

This is a good start and a clean bill (at this point).

There is still a lot of work to do in the area of Michigan knife laws, again, a good start.

[Tallbear]

Tuesday, March 21, 2017



TIME: 3:00 p.m.



PLACE: Room 1300,


AGENDA



SB 245 Sen. Jones Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow.

[DrScaryGuy]

wow. I read it through twice and still missed the "226a is repealed" at the end
let's hope the FUDs make the same mistake.
with modern knives, there is absolutely no need for the distinction in types of knives. My edc, which has no springs, assists, etc, is actually easier to lock open and closed than many switchblades i've checked out.
which really just means the law against switchblades is absolutely pointless and founded in movie fantasy.

[DrScaryGuy]

Here is the judiciary committee per this page... http://www.senate.michigan.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Rick Jones (http://www.senatorrickjones.com/contact-me/) (R) Committee Chair, 24th District
Tonya Schuitmaker (http://www.senatortonyaschuitmaker.com/contact/) (R) Vice Chair, 26th District
Tory Rocca (http://www.senatortoryrocca.com/contact-me/) (R) 10th District
Patrick Colbeck (http://www.senatorpatrickcolbeck.com/contact-me/) (R) 7th District
Steven M Bieda (http://senatedems.com/bieda/contact/) (D) Minority Committee Chair, 9th District

None of those people are from my district, so I'm counting on you folks to put their feet to the fire. I'm not a constituent who matters, so I did what I can by linking to each one of their "contact me" pages, making it easy for you folks.

[Tallbear]

It's Jones bill so it won't have a problem getting out of committee.

[Roundballer]

Here is the judiciary committee per this page... http://www.senate.michigan.gov/committee/judiciary.html

None of those people are from my district, so I'm counting on you folks to put their feet to the fire. I'm not a constituent who matters, so I did what I can by linking to each one of their "contact me" pages, making it easy for you folks.
You can write to the the clerk/secretary of the committee and address the issue for submission to the committee.

You don't have to be a constituent of one of the Senators on the committee to address the committee itself.

[luckless]

I am pleasantly surprised by this one and who sponsored it.

[jmonarch]

wow. I read it through twice and still missed the "226a is repealed" at the end
let's hope the FUDs make the same mistake.
with modern knives, there is absolutely no need for the distinction in types of knives. My edc, which has no springs, assists, etc, is actually easier to lock open and closed than many switchblades i've checked out.
which really just means the law against switchblades is absolutely pointless and founded in movie fantasy.

I'd be interested to know what knife you're describing...

[Tallbear]

**CANCELLED**

NOTICE OF SCHEDULED MEETING



COMMITTEE: Judiciary



DATE: Tuesday, March 21, 2017



TIME: 3:00 p.m.



PLACE: Room 1300, Binsfeld Building

201 Townsend Street

Lansing, MI 48933



PHONE: Heather Dorbeck (517) 373-5323

Committee Clerk





AGENDA



SB 245 Sen. Jones Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow.

[fr3db3ar]

I like my assisted open knives. A lot easier on my arthritic thumbs.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

[DrScaryGuy]

I'd be interested to know what knife you're describing...

I think most knives with a liner/frame lock can do it. They might take a little oil on the pivot pin to flip open reliably, but that's not a big deal.
That's why NY has had such a fun time charging people with felonies. Anything you can open without having to use your other hand, or pry open with your thumb is considered a "gravity knife" there.
see here, 'cause i gotta go home :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB_cyGGFx60

[V1x3nV]

That's really crazy! I recently purchased my first 2...

Both are easily opened with one hand. I don't think the one is spring assisted but the other one definitely isn't.

The other one opens super easily with one hand - kind of like the gravity knife.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/a9e0b54626bd27723a1ecfa8a278c08c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/399c63f9fceb3e6b438d51e7b3dc52b3.jpg

These are ok in Michigan, yes?

[Roundballer]

That's really crazy! I recently purchased my first 2...

Both are easily opened with one hand. I don't think the one is spring assisted but the other one definitely isn't.

The other one opens super easily with one hand - kind of like the gravity knife.

These are ok in Michigan, yes?
Yes, they are legal. What is illegal, and this bill would repeal, is actual "switch-blades".

Read the current law --> MCL 750-226a (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226a)

Currently, this bill will simply delete that section of law, and remove references to it in other sections. There are no other "gotchas" buried in it, if we can pass it as is, all will be well.

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 3/20/2017 Analysis File Added

[Roundballer]

Last Action: 3/20/2017 Analysis File Added


FISCAL IMPACT

The bill would have no fiscal impact on the State and could have a positive fiscal impact on local government to the extent that violations of Section 226a are currently prosecuted. Any reduction in misdemeanor arrests and convictions could reduce resource demands on law enforcement, court systems, community supervision, and jails. Any associated decrease in fine revenue would reduce funding to public libraries.

We HAVE to enact Knife Law Preemption!

[Tallbear]

Tuesday, March 28, 2017
TIME: 3:00 p.m.


PLACE: Room 1300,


AGENDA

SB 261 Sen. Hertel Criminal procedure; records; child abuse offenders registry; create.

SB 262 Sen. Jones Criminal procedure; sentencing guidelines; sentencing guidelines for child abuse offenders registry act violation; provide for.

SB 263 Sen. Schuitmaker Criminal procedure; records; persons convicted of certain child abuse offenses; require to register under the child abuse offender registry.

HB 4137 Rep. Frederick Law enforcement; records; fingerprinting and photographing of child or youth with special health care needs taken and submitted to the automated fingerprint identification system (AFIS) and the statewide network of agency photos upon request of parent or guardian; allow.

HB 4063 Rep. Cox Crimes; other; aiming a beam of directed energy from a directed energy device at or into path of aircraft; prohibit and provide penalty.

HB 4064 Rep. Barrett Criminal procedure; sentencing guidelines; sentencing guidelines for crime of aiming beam of directed energy from a directed energy device at aircraft or into path of aircraft; enact.


SB 245 Sen. Jones Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife;

[Flash-hider]

It has been depressing going to gun shows in Indiana and see what's on the table that they can legally carry. While it won't give us carte blanche it does move the needle.

[Jared1981]

We HAVE to enact Knife Law Preemption!

I was told Kniferights wants knife preemption for Michigan this session. It appears that they want to pass the switchblade bill into law and then drop the preemption bill in the senate for passage.

They also want to target 750.227(1) but that won't come until after switchblades and preemption.

[Jared1981]

Passed out of committee 5-0.

Rick Jones did an outstanding job of explaining why this bill is needed.

[DrScaryGuy]

Passed out of committee 5-0.

Rick Jones did an outstanding job of explaining why this bill is needed.

sweeeeet
any word on when i'll need to call more people?

[Jared1981]

sweeeeet
any word on when i'll need to call more people?

Kniferights will let you know.

[71commander]

What's really needed is a revision on the fixed blade laws. If you have a CPL, you're good to go.

[jmonarch]

What's really needed is a revision on the fixed blade laws. If you have a CPL, you're good to go.

Huh?? What does CPL have to do with blades?

[Jared1981]

What's really needed is a revision on the fixed blade laws. If you have a CPL, you're good to go.

We don't want that. That's a horrible idea due to the wording of 750.227(1).

Kniferights has been successful at getting those laws repealed altogether. At the worst, they tied such legalization to the ability to possess a firearm.

To tie it to a $115 dollar license with 70 misdemeanor disqualifiers is giving up much more then we need to.

If people just follow the call to action alerts from Kniferights, we will see MI become very knife friendly.

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 3/29/2017 Analysis File Added

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 4/19/2017 PLACED ON ORDER OF THIRD READING

[Roundballer]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 4/19/2017 PLACED ON ORDER OF THIRD READING

4/20/2017 Expected in SJ 37 PASSED ROLL CALL # 109 YEAS 36 NAYS 1 EXCUSED 1 NOT VOTING 0

On to the House!

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 4/20/2017 referred to Committee on Judiciary

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 4/25/2017 Analysis File Added

[falhart]

If this goes through will we be able to carry automatic knives?

[luckless]

If this goes through will we be able to carry automatic knives?

Yep, you won't even need to take a class. They'll be treated like any other knife.

[falhart]

Awesome. We'll keep up the good work and keep us posted :) thanks!

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 4/20/2017 referred to Committee on Judiciary

[JasonJ]

I reached out personally to all members of the House Committee for which this is assigned. So far I've heard back from Guerra and Howrylak, both have said in no uncertain terms that they support the bill. That is good to hear.

[Revdrshad]

I too reached out to the House Committee. I've heard back from Guerra, Howylak, and Ritter. All have indeed said they support the Bill.

[Tallbear]

DATE: Tuesday, May 16, 2017

TIME: 12:00 PM

PLACE: Room 326, House Office Building, Lansing, MI

AGENDA:
HB 4575 (Rep. LaFave) Civil procedure; costs and fees; fee for publication of legal notice; extend sunset for annual increases for inflation.

SB 245 (Sen. Jones) Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow.

[RDak]

DATE: Tuesday, May 16, 2017

TIME: 12:00 PM

PLACE: Room 326, House Office Building, Lansing, MI

AGENDA:
HB 4575 (Rep. LaFave) Civil procedure; costs and fees; fee for publication of legal notice; extend sunset for annual increases for inflation.

SB 245 (Sen. Jones) Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow.Oh boy, looks like this one might be getting VERY close to becoming law!!!

Well if Snyder signs it...........................

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 5/15/2017 Analysis File Added

[Roundballer]

They write these Analysis Files as if there is only the State law in existence:


The bill could result in a decrease in costs for local units of government related to county jails and/or local misdemeanor probation supervision. The costs of local incarceration in county jails and local misdemeanor probation supervision vary by jurisdiction. There could also be a decrease in penal fine revenues which would decrease funding for local libraries, which are the constitutionally-designated recipients of those revenues.

Lord, we need knife preemption!

[Tallbear]

DATE: Tuesday, May 23, 2017

TIME: 12:00 PM

PLACE: Room 326, House Office Building, Lansing, MI

AGENDA:
Presentations on Child Custody

SB 245 (Sen. Jones) Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow.

HB 4575 (Rep. LaFave) Civil procedure; costs and fees; fee for publication of legal notice; extend sunset for annual increases for inflation.

[Tallbear]

SB 0245 of 2017
Weapons; other; spring-assisted knife; allow. Amends secs. 231 & 237a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.231 & 750.237a) & repeals sec. 226a of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.226a).
Last Action: 5/23/2017 referred to second reading

[Roundballer]

5/23/2017 Expected in HJ 48 reported with recommendation without amendment

Huzzah!

[luckless]

It ain't guns but, it is still awesome!

:score:

[Revdrshad]

What exactly does this next step mean? Does this mean it's now on its way to a House Vote?

[Roundballer]

What exactly does this next step mean? Does this mean it's now on its way to a House Vote?

This bill has been passed by the Senate, sent to the House and assigned to committee. This last (most recent )step was the House committee reporting ir out of committee and recommending it to the House. This opens it up for second and third reading. If it passes the vote after the third reading, it gets sent to the Governor.

[Revdrshad]

This bill has been passed by the Senate, sent to the House and assigned to committee. This last (most recent )step was the House committee reporting ir out of committee and recommending it to the House. This opens it up for second and third reading. If it passes the vote after the third reading, it gets sent to the Governor.

Awesome. Thanks for the reply, Sir.

[JasonJ]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply, Sir.

Only awesome if Gov. Snyder signs it... or the Legislature feels so strongly that this is a good revision to the law and is needed that they vote to overturn his veto. Gov. Snyder hasn't exactly been friendly to this sort of thing. <fingers-crossed>

[luckless]

Only awesome if Gov. Snyder signs it... or the Legislature feels so strongly that this is a good revision to the law and is needed that they vote to overturn his veto. Gov. Snyder hasn't exactly been friendly to this sort of thing. <fingers-crossed>

I would encourage you to call his office and ask if he is going to sign it.

[JasonJ]

I would encourage you to call his office and ask if he is going to sign it.

Absolutely DONE. I called to voice my support of the bill and urge the Gov. to sign it, as The People and their duly elected representatives have.

We'll see what happens.

[45 acp]

This bill has been passed by the Senate, sent to the House and assigned to committee. This last (most recent )step was the House committee reporting ir out of committee and recommending it to the House. This opens it up for second and third reading. If it passes the vote after the third reading, it gets sent to the Governor.

Any one have any idea how long it will take to get a vote in the house?

[Roundballer]

Any one have any idea how long it will take to get a vote in the house?

They only publish actions that have happened in their journals. It was recorded that it has been placed on an order of second reading. That means that it is open for amendment from the floor, but doesn't tell us anything else.

I don't know of anyplace that they publish any form of an agenda for session days, so we don't know of where anything falls on the list. I believe it is totally up to the House leadership as to when any bill gets brought up for consideration. This bill is not listed at all in the most recent journals.

[Buffman]

If this passes we should get a Group Buy on Ratworx chain drive knives :D

[Cocowheats]

If this passes we should get a Group Buy on Ratworx chain drive knives :D

Make it a Mechtech OTF group buy and I'm definitely in!

[DrScaryGuy]

Make it a Mechtech OTF group buy and I'm definitely in!

possibly benchmade OTF?
also, for a more affordable option, ravencrest tactical

no, i've not thought about this pipe dream yet...

[dclark77l]

Today's update :

6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 read a second time
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 amended
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 placed on third reading
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 placed on immediate passage
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 read a third time
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 passed; given immediate effect Roll Call # 238 Yeas 106 Nays 1
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 inserted full title
6/20/2017 Expected in HJ 59 returned to Senate

[Roundballer]

It looks like the only amendment is to give it effect 90 days after being signed into law.

If that get through the Senate as returned, it will go to Gov. Ricky. We'll see what he does.

[dclark77l]

Hopefully with a vote of 106-1, he will actually sign it.

[DrScaryGuy]

holy crap. that's a big margin
who's the one perl-clutcher?

[Roundballer]

holy crap. that's a big margin
who's the one perl-clutcher?

We can look that up as soon as they put HJ 59 out there. It will be just a day or two.

It passed in the Senate with the same kinds of ratios: YEAS 36 NAYS 1 EXCUSED 1

[karcent]

holy crap. that's a big margin
who's the one perl-clutcher?

The Nay vote was Rep. Rose Mary Robinson, D-Detroit.

Her comment: “Why this? I think it’s inherently dangerous. You can be sliced and gutted, as we say.”

[Roundballer]

In my best Dan Aykroyd voice:

Mary, you ignorant .....


Robinson, who voted no, said she thinks lawmakers should do a more comprehensive review of the state’s knife laws and argued that switchblades are just too dangerous.

“What they’ve done is cause more confusion,” she said, questioning why they voted to legalize switchblades but not other illegal knives.

“Why this? I think it’s inherently dangerous. You can be sliced and gutted, as we say.”
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/20/switchblades-legalize-vote/103054744/


The sole Senator that voted against it was Morris Hood III (D-Dearborn)


The bill passed 36-1, with only Rep. Morris Hood III, D-Detroit, voting against it.

"As we see a lot of violence increasing in our country, in our world... I just don't think that there should be another tool out there for someone to be able to carry, to legally carry," Hood said.

He said he wasn't impressed by Michigan State Police testimony that the ban on switchblades wasn't being enforced anyway, calling that a "poor excuse" for allowing somebody to carry a weapon without some type of credentials or training.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/04/michigan_senate_passes_legisla.html

Let's get this signed, then go after preemption for knives too.

[DrScaryGuy]

Oh, so both cases of people voting against it came down to a "you people" mentality.
got it.
sometimes i forget that only republicans are racists.

[dclark77l]

Updated today :

6/22/2017 Expected in SJ 62 HOUSE AMENDMENT(S) CONCURRED IN ROLL CALL # 284 YEAS 36 NAYS 1 EXCUSED 1 NOT VOTING 0
6/22/2017 Expected in SJ 62 GIVEN IMMEDIATE EFFECT
6/22/2017 Expected in SJ 62 FULL TITLE AGREED TO
6/22/2017 Expected in SJ 62 ORDERED ENROLLED

[DP425]

Well, it appears this is as good as locked in.

Do we know if anyone has legislation waiting in the wings for knife preemption?

[cmr19xx]

Has there been any indication from Snyder's office that he will/won't sign it?

[luckless]

Has there been any indication from Snyder's office that he will/won't sign it?

Call his office.517-335-7858 - Constituent Services
Ask them what his intentions are. They will tell you something vague and ask if you have an opinion to share. I usually share the opinion that my governor should have a clue about the bills that have been laid on his desk for a signature.

It is worth calling. I doubt they care what we think but they are interested in the number of phone calls they get, pro or con.

[cmr19xx]

Call his office.517-335-7858 - Constituent Services
Ask them what his intentions are. They will tell you something vague and ask if you have an opinion to share. I usually share the opinion that my governor should have a clue about the bills that have been laid on his desk for a signature.

It is worth calling. I doubt they care what we think but they are interested in the number of phone calls they get, pro or con.

Will do. Thanks for posting the number.

[karcent]

You can use this link to send Gov Snyder an email voicing your support.
It only takes a minute.

http://www.congressweb.com/kniferights/10

I will be happy to help you with your auto knife needs when this is signed in to law.

[cmr19xx]

You can use this link to send Gov Snyder an email voicing your support.
It only takes a minute.

http://www.congressweb.com/kniferights/10

I will be happy to help you with your auto knife needs when this is signed in to law.

Thanks and done

[DrScaryGuy]

You can use this link to send Gov Snyder an email voicing your support.
It only takes a minute.

http://www.congressweb.com/kniferights/10

I will be happy to help you with your auto knife needs when this is signed in to law.

Oddly enough, this was the first time I have been able to officially use "Dr." as my prefix.
Seems right, as I totally want the ability to legally own switchblades.

[Roundballer]

I am still waiting for it to show right here --> http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2017-SB-0245 that this bill has been transmitted to the Governor, and the time that it happened.

But I think that they are playing games and holding it back until Snyder gets back from his European jaunt.

Once he has it, he has 14 days to do something (measured in hours and minutes). He will have to sign, veto, or let it lay. Two of the three will put it into law.

[luckless]

.....and those 75 year old stilettos are still illegal to collect in Michigan.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/michigan_is_one_signature_away.html#comments

""Michigan's law on these types of knives is outdated and was written at a time when popular films portrayed spring-assisted knives as extremely dangerous weapons," Jones said.

"We are not talking about double-edged stiletto knives. These are spring-assisted knives, such as utility knives commonly carried by police officers and members of the National Guard." "

Stiletto knives would remain illegal. "


It is a half measure of freedom, I guess.

[Roundballer]

Don't get confused in the terminology.

Those Out The End auto-knives that many refer to as "stiletto" will be legal, depending possibly on blade type. The repeal of MCL 750-226a (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226a) does not leave anything that would make any "auto-opening" knife illegal.

"Stiletto" is a blade type, and is referred to in Michigan Law as one of the banned Fix-blade stabbing instruments: MCL 750-227 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Gunners_stiletto_01.jpg

[DrScaryGuy]

speaking of stilettos and european vacations, it was TORTURE being in italian knife shops last fall, looking at all the pretty knives that can't be legally shipped using anything that fedex won't ship, and can't be shipped through anything that might go through USPS, and can't be possessed in michigan. TORTURE.
I sure wish I could have picked up that pretty stainless switchblade with a blonde polished bull horn handle I saw - it would have made a great souvenir, if for nothing else, to be one heck of a letter opener.
I mean, I have a cheap balisong i picked up in costa rica for eating fresh fruit from the beach ON the beach, and a sugar cane machete from my hawaiian honeymoon. so I guess I don't NEED an italian switchblade. but I'm sure i'll wind up with a knife just like the one I wanted - if the law passes.
Also, knives as souvenirs is a new thing for me. I like it. I'm not looking forward to the cost of what I buy if I end up going on a vacation in japan.

[RDak]

You can use this link to send Gov Snyder an email voicing your support.
It only takes a minute.

http://www.congressweb.com/kniferights/10

I will be happy to help you with your auto knife needs when this is signed in to law.Email sent.

[DEVIL DOG]

Sent. Preemption is next.

[jmonarch]

You can use this link to send Gov Snyder an email voicing your support.
It only takes a minute.

http://www.congressweb.com/kniferights/10

I will be happy to help you with your auto knife needs when this is signed in to law.

message sent

[karcent]

We are going to need a big push to convince Governor Snyder to sign SB245, the Bill to repeal the ban on automatic knives, in to law.
It only takes a minute to send him an email using this form.
If you haven't already done so, please email him today!

http://www.congressweb.com/KnifeRights/10

[DP425]

What is the hold-up? It's been 14 days since the bill was ordered enrolled and apparently still hasn't landed on his desk? Does it really matter that a holiday weekend was in there??

[luckless]

They have one session day in July and one in August. Usually, they will just gavel the session in and then end it. Don't expect anything to happen until September. Now that the governor already got his goodies in the budget, there is very little leverage that can be applied to him. I'm not hopeful that we will ever get positive change out of Snyder. Instead of a part time legislature, I'd like a part time governor.

[Divegeek]

Well it has passed the house and senate, but as near as I can tell it hasn't been placed on Snyder's desk yet. I'm not sure why they haven't sent it yet, but the clock doesn't start ticking until the senate "transmits" the bill to the governor's office. The last entry into the senate journal for this bill was on June 22nd when it was voted on. They have not updated it since then, so I'm guessing that they didn't hit the send button before they ran out the door for summer recess.

[luckless]

They were in session for one day after they passed this bill. I'm sure Senator Meekhoff's office could tell us how long it should take to get this signed.

[Roundballer]

They were in session for one day after they passed this bill. I'm sure Senator Meekhoff's office could tell us how long it should take to get this signed.

I have done some investigating and correlating information about bills listed in the same journal and ordered "enrolled" as this bill was.

A rough count is 19 passed and ordered enrolled that day. Of those, 5 have been printed, enrolled and presented to the Governor. Those that they made a move on were all about "female genital mutilation", and nothing else has moved.

It appears that the Secretary of the Senate that is the stopper, either a willful act or under direction, we don't know.

[Jared1981]

We are going to need a big push to convince Governor Snyder to sign SB245, the Bill to repeal the ban on automatic knives, in to law.
It only takes a minute to send him an email using this form.
If you haven't already done so, please email him today!

http://www.congressweb.com/KnifeRights/10

It wouldn't hurt to email him but I don't think he will veto, a lot of knife bills have been signed by anti-gun democrat governors.

The last repeal to be signed was the Colorado governor, the same one who signed the ban on private sales and the 15 round mag limit. And even he signed the switchblade ban repeal.

[10x25mm]

Long, very infuriating story on TTAK about one parent's nightmare experience dealing with Michigan's unconstitutionally vague knife laws:

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2017/07/reader-submission-contest-my-sons-illegal-knife-legal-nightmare/


....But once the length issue was disposed of, they said his knife wasn’t legal because it was “Spring loaded”… I had to purchase several knives just like my Son’s to bring to the court to show how it worked, along with Case law and a court meeting or two later and that issue was disposed of… Then His knife was called a “Dagger”… More round and round. Eventually the case went away… But not after spending almost 6 thousand dollars in Legal fees to explain the Law to the Police and Prosecutor/ And the case lingered over my Son for His entire Summer break and into the next school year!!

Sure would like to know what municipality caused him all this aggravation. Would like to use them as an example to enlighten RINO Rick.

[Shyster]

Long, very infuriating story on TTAK about one parent's nightmare experience dealing with Michigan's unconstitutionally vague knife laws:

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2017/07/reader-submission-contest-my-sons-illegal-knife-legal-nightmare/



Sure would like to know what municipality caused him all this aggravation. Would like to use them as an example to enlighten RINO Rick.

I think I know where this took place and I seem to recall talking to the dad about it in court. SMH

[Jared1981]

The bill has now been on the governor's desk for 4 hours.

[DrScaryGuy]

The bill has now been on the governor's desk for 4 hours.

Oh?
So 13 days and 20 hours left is it?

[Roundballer]

Oh?
So 13 days and 20 hours left is it?


7/12/2017 Expected in SJ 64 PRESENTED TO GOVERNOR 7/11/2017 @ 2:36 PM

We will know by or before 7/25/2017 @ 2:36 PM.

He has 14 days measured in hours and minutes. He has to sign, veto or let it lay. If he just lets it lay, it becomes law at the expiration of time.

[Caliper]

What legislative sessions are planned after 7/25? Is there a chance to override a potential/expected veto?

[luckless]

What legislative sessions are planned after 7/25? Is there a chance to override a potential/expected veto?
I don't think you will ever see an override attempted in the senate, under current leadership. Arlan Meekhof is term limited and probably working for his future employer more than the citizens of Michigan. At best, he doesn't care about our concerns. At worst, his future job is dependent on Snyder, himself.

[karcent]

What legislative sessions are planned after 7/25? Is there a chance to override a potential/expected veto?

Contact Gov Snyder to ask him to sign this Bill.

Who is expecting a veto?

[Caliper]

Contact Gov Snyder to ask him to sign this Bill.

Who is expecting a veto?

Have sent a message to his office.

General feeling I was getting was that Snyder is term limited and not exactly in favor of this law.

[karcent]

Have sent a message to his office.

General feeling I was getting was that Snyder is term limited and not exactly in favor of this law.

I had not heard that he voiced any opinion on it?
The MSP is in favor of SB245, and he generally follows their lead on this type of legislation.
Time will tell.

[DrScaryGuy]

Contact Gov Snyder to ask him to sign this Bill.

Who is expecting a veto?

i left a voicemail last night. worth a shot.

[xmanhockey7]

The bill had bipartisan support. I bet he'll sign it.

[Roundballer]

I had not heard that he voiced any opinion on it?
It is not that he has voiced any actual opinion on this, or any other bill. It is that his office responds in a manner that would leave you to believe that the Gov is not aware of any bill before the fact, and will not express any position. It is almost like he is unaware of anything before it gets to his office. He (his office) seems to want to leave us without confidence in how he will respond.


The MSP is in favor of SB245, and he generally follows their lead on this type of legislation.
Time will tell.
This does tend to lend confidence in the possibility of passage. Even if the MSP should have NO voice in the creation of laws. They are a portion of the Executive branch of government, not a fourth branch that gets a vote.

[MJ0865]

Rick Jones just posted on Facebook that this bill was signed today!

[Dansjeep2000]

About time

[karcent]

About time

Gov Snyder only had it on his desk for less than two days. Can't complain about that really.

[DrScaryGuy]

Rick Jones
2 hrs · Grand Ledge ·
The Governor signed my spring-assisted knife bill today. Some in the media will say it's now legal to carry a "switchblade".
That's technically not true. The switchblade commonly known as a Stiletto is still banned.
This is the spring assisted utility knife that is like a common jackknife. It has a one edged blade. Not the double edge Stiletto.
It is commonly carried by the National Guard and police. It is sold all over the place and some people were getting into trouble.
Everyone from the ACLU to the MSP supported decriminalizing this commonly sold knife.
I think I'll run down to ohio tonight and pick one up. that way i can have one when i head out tomorrow

[Kaeto]

I wouldn't start carrying one too soon. After all you can still run afoul of the patchwork of knife laws from city to city.

[karcent]

I think I'll run down to ohio tonight and pick one up. that way i can have one when i head out tomorrow

The Law doesn't take effect for 90 days

[Roundballer]

Rick Jones
2 hrs · Grand Ledge ·
The Governor signed my spring-assisted knife bill today. Some in the media will say it's now legal to carry a "switchblade".
That's technically not true. The switchblade commonly known as a Stiletto is still banned.
This is the spring assisted utility knife that is like a common jackknife. It has a one edged blade. Not the double edge Stiletto.
It is commonly carried by the National Guard and police. It is sold all over the place and some people were getting into trouble.
Everyone from the ACLU to the MSP supported decriminalizing this commonly sold knife.
I think I'll run down to ohio tonight and pick one up. that way i can have one when i head out tomorrow

Rick Jones doesn't know what his bill does or doesn't do.

There is nothing in the law that would prohibit an "Out The Front" types of knives, and the double edge and stiletto blades are banned as "fixed" blades.

Furthermore, if he wants to "protect" people from getting "in trouble", he will need knife preemption.

[DrScaryGuy]

The Law doesn't take effect for 90 days

guess i better turn the car around then and try again in 3 months

[DrScaryGuy]

Rick Jones doesn't know what his bill does or doesn't do.

There is nothing in the law that would prohibit an "Out The Front" types of knives, and the double edge and stiletto blades are banned as "fixed" blades.

Furthermore, if he wants to "protect" people from getting "in trouble", he will need knife preemption.

out the front gravity knife, or out the front automatic knife?
also, are you talking about double edged OTF blades? because i think some are edged only on one side for just this reason.

[DEVIL DOG]

Without preemption.......I won't get too excited.

[Dansjeep2000]

Preemption needs to be next on the agenda. This is a good step forward. I have a Benchmade OTF I have been waiting for years to carry.....

[cmr19xx]

My grandpa brought a lot of very interesting things back with him from WWII. It is crazy to me that I can legally own the pistols he brought back, but the Schrade M2 paratroopers knife (switchblade) was illegal to own. Its resided with my uncle out of state. Looking forward to reuniting it with the rest of the items.

Not mine, just a picture of the exact same knife.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2010/01/PrestoKnife009-1.jpg

[onlineshooter]

My grandpa brought a lot of very interesting things back with him from WWII. It is crazy to me that I can legally own the pistols he brought back, but the Schrade M2 paratroopers knife (switchblade) was illegal to own. Its resided with my uncle out of state. Looking forward to reuniting it with the rest of the items.

Not mine, just a picture of the exact same knife.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2010/01/PrestoKnife009-1.jpg

My Boy Scout leader from the 1970s, William Rachevsky would occasionally bring his to our Scout meetings and let us drool over it. I haven't seen one since then!

[Jason Demond]

When they say stiletto. Are they referring to any double edged knife, or are single edged iconic automatic knives like these still illegal?

http://i63.tinypic.com/nmz5gp.jpg

[10x25mm]

Governor Snyder Signed SB 0245 into Law With 'Immediate Effect'

Now Michigan Public Act 96 of 2017 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(y2dbdg1jhy5bneigozik5cix))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2017-SB-0245), given immediate effect (which is actually a 90 delay from 13 July 2017)

MLive's writeup:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/switchblade_knives_made_legal.html


Switchblade knives made legal in bill signed by Gov. Rick Snyder
By Lauren Gibbons - Updated on July 16, 2017 at 7:03 AM Posted on July 16, 2017 at 7:00 AM

A statewide ban on switchblades will be lifted under legislation signed into law by Gov. Rick Snyder Thursday.

Senate Bill 245 eliminates current law prohibiting sale and possession of spring-assisted knives, also known as switchblades.

Under the ban that's being lifted by the new law, the only people allowed to carry switchblades were those in the police, military or people missing a hand or arm. The law banned others from purchasing knives with mechanical means of being opened.

The bill was introduced by Sen. Rick Jones, R-Grand Ledge, and passed the Senate Judiciary Committee he chairs in March. Both the House and Senate passed the legislation, and the legislation was sent to the governor in June.....

[Roundballer]

When they say stiletto. Are they referring to any double edged knife, or are single edged iconic automatic knives like these still illegal?

http://i63.tinypic.com/nmz5gp.jpg

There is nothing in the law that would make the knife pictured illegal. This bill, now law, REPEALED the law,

The only place "stiletto" is used, is in reference to "non folding" knives. A stiletto is not "edged" at all in the sense that you can slice salami with it. It is a stabbing instrument only. The Italian word "stiletto" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiletto)is from the Latin Stilus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylus), meaning: "a stake; a pointed instrument, used by the Romans, for writing upon wax tablets.

Stylus:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Stylus.jpg


Stiletto:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Gunners_stiletto_01.jpg

[DrScaryGuy]

Governor Snyder Signed SB 0245 into Law With 'Immediate Effect'

Now Michigan Public Act 96 of 2017 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(y2dbdg1jhy5bneigozik5cix))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2017-SB-0245), given immediate effect (which is actually a 90 delay from 13 July 2017)

MLive's writeup:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/switchblade_knives_made_legal.html

I like the comments blaming republicans. Clearly, these people didnt notice that it had pretty much universal support before getting outraged.

[detroitbassist]

I just read the enrolled (last listed) version of sb245 and knives weren't mentioned. It mostly focused on guns in schools. Did I miss a key ingredient?

[MJ0865]

I just read the enrolled (last listed) version of sb245 and knives weren't mentioned. It mostly focused on guns in schools. Did I miss a key ingredient?
The third line from the bottom says "Enacting section 1. Section 226a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.226a, is repealed."

[Roundballer]

I just read the enrolled (last listed) version of sb245 and knives weren't mentioned. It mostly focused on guns in schools. Did I miss a key ingredient?

The third line from the bottom says "Enacting section 1. Section 226a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.226a, is repealed."

YES! Exactly!

The whole rest of the bill REMOVES any references to Section 226a. So, of course, you wouldn't see that in the final bill either.

There is no new law that makes anything "legal". They have removed what was there that made it illegal!

Of course, this does nothing to prevent the locals from enacting their own, which is the purported reason for the change. People were being charged for "switchblades" by having an "assisted" knife. There is an AG opinion that covers that.

We STILL NEED knife preemption!

[detroitbassist]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

So lacking preemption means that we continue to risk running afoul of the law crossing city borders with ANY pocketknife just like last week; only now it can be a cool "out the front" spring knife (next stop: Google!)?

A step in the right direction, but preemption is a must. Some cities in my area have very draconian knife laws, and 20 minutes on the freeway can take me through several jurisdictions. Smh.

[Jason Demond]

There is nothing in the law that would make the knife pictured illegal. This bill, now law, REPEALED the law,

The only place "stiletto" is used, is in reference to "non folding" knives. A stiletto is not "edged" at all in the sense that you can slice salami with it. It is a stabbing instrument only. The Italian word "stiletto" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiletto)is from the Latin Stilus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylus), meaning: "a stake; a pointed instrument, used by the Romans, for writing upon wax tablets.

Stylus:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Stylus.jpg


Stiletto:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Gunners_stiletto_01.jpg


Thanks

[firespec35]

Forgive me if I missed it but what does the top part of this law regarding guns and schools mean? Anything?

[MJ0865]

Forgive me if I missed it but what does the top part of this law regarding guns and schools mean? Anything?I believe it just removes the references to MCL 750.226a

[Roundballer]

Forgive me if I missed it but what does the top part of this law regarding guns and schools mean? Anything?

I believe it just removes the references to MCL 750.226a
That is the primary reason that it is listed there.

Both MCL 750.231 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-231) and 750.237a (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-237a) had references to 750.226a that needed to be removed.

There is a little more to it, but it doesn't change much beyond removing the reference to another law section that has been eliminated.

There are a bunch of changes in those two sections of law with these bills, but it all falls under the heading of "house keeping". There have been a number of court cases where the ruling stated things like "person" can mean a corporation, or "shall" can mean "may". So anytime they open a section of law for amendment, they are fixing as many of these things (like capitalization of the words Army, Navy, National Guard, etc.) and replacing "person" with "individual" or "shall" with "will" as needed. So the rest of it usually doesn't mean anything.

[PhotoTom]

A new analysis of the bill/act added:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2017-2018/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2017-SFA-0245-N.pdf

[PhotoTom]

I disagree with the fiscal impact part. It says there will be no fiscal impact on the State, but in reality, the State will benefit from the sales taxes of "switchblades", at least initially (surge of sales).

[71commander]

Thanks.

I thought it took immediate effect.

[Roundballer]

Thanks.

I thought it took immediate effect.

The "immediate effect" means that it becomes law as soon as is listed in the bill itself. If it has "immediate effect" and no time frame in the bill, it becomes law when it is recorded by the SoS. If it doesn't have "immediate effect", it becomes law 90 days AFTER the END of the CURRENT SESSION.

This bill has "immediate effect" and it states in the bill 90 days after being enacted into law, so sometime in October. (I don't have a calendar handy, and don't want to do the counting)

[shortround]

90 days from July 13th would be October 11th.

[PhotoTom]

MSP Legal Update:
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MIMSP/2017/11/21/file_attachments/917576/MSP_Legal_Update_No_130.pdf

[Flash-hider]

So if I posses a mechanical knife that has a blade length of 3.4", how will I convince the police that my possession of it is the pure enjoyment of carrying it.

[SADAacp]

From legal update 130:

Officers are reminded that unless exempt under MCL
750.231, a person with a “mechanical knife” may still be
arrested for carrying a concealed weapon pursuant to
MCL 750.227 if that knife could be classified as a
“dagger, dirk, stiletto, or double edged non-folding
stabbing instrument of any length.” However, the fact
that the knife is “mechanical” is irrelevant to that offense.
This seems to suggest a double edged OTF knife for example is legal since it is "mechanical?"

[Roundballer]

Public Act 96 of 2017 repealed MCL 750.226a of the Michigan Penal Code to eliminate the prohibition on possession of a knife solely because it has the appearance of a pocket knife, but can be opened by the flick of a button, pressure on a handle, or other mechanical contrivance.
Officers are reminded that unless exempt under MCL 750.231, a person with a “mechanical knife” may still be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon pursuant to MCL 750.227 if that knife could be classified as a “dagger, dirk, stiletto, or double edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length.” However, the fact that the knife is “mechanical” is irrelevant to that offense.
Officers are similarly reminded that a person with a “mechanical knife” may still be arrested for carrying a weapon with unlawful intent under MCL 750.226 if that knife could be classified as a “dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over three inches in length” and is carried with the intent to use it unlawfully against the person of another. However, the fact that the knife is “mechanical” is irrelevant to that offense.

Great way to instruct LEOs how to jack someone up. MCL 750.227 does not apply at all!

AND, how would they prove "your intent", if you don't tell them what it is?

[G22]

Great way to instruct LEOs how to jack someone up. MCL 750.227 does not apply at all!

AND, how would they prove "your intent", if you don't tell them what it is?

Shifty eyes, bead of sweat on your forehead, invoking the 5th, etc...

[71commander]

Do I read that to mean that it is legal to carry a single edge, fixed blade knife?

[Kaeto]

Depends on the city or township ordinances.

[Roundballer]

Yes and no, that falls into the big ol' bucket of gray.

There is a phrase in there "except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such". The list of others would preclude the typical hunting knife, but then they add that it is excepted, but limited to the "and carried as such". So, while you are hunting, and I would expect on the way to or from the hunting ground.

I would not want to test this one, it is a 5yr~$2500 fine felony.

[dice]

Too much grey in the knife laws. I'm curious if anyone has been arrested for a hunting knife on the belt? Not involved in a crime, just say walking down the street. I have no idea if it really happens, or if LEO's don't bother.


Dice

[badman]

So is a OTF KNIFE WITH a blade over 3 inches and a pointed blade but only sharpened on one side leagal to carry concealed? Not considering local ordnances that would prohibit. One like this

https://youtu.be/-Qx5l8IHM04

[SADAacp]

So is a OTF KNIFE WITH a blade over 3 inches and a pointed blade but only sharpened on one side leagal to carry concealed? Not considering local ordnances that would prohibit. One like this

https://youtu.be/-Qx5l8IHM04

According to the Legal Dawgs over at AKTI, the dagger-style blade with a false edge could still get you a 227 violation.

https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/michigan/

[Robertlamont80]

Since it is now illegal for me to carry my cheap Mora knife I love so much, I went out and bought a Microtech Ultratech. One hand operation is a must and since the automatic is legal now, I just had to get one.

[Glockguy21]

I'm confused by this law... I guess the main question I have, if I understand it correctly is, you are allowed to have spring assisted auto knives but they can not be double edged, is that correct?

[Divegeek]

Correct....the State of Michigan no longer bans switchblades. Double bladed knives are still illegal to carry per state law.
I'm confused by this law... I guess the main question I have, if I understand it correctly is, you are allowed to have spring assisted auto knives but they can not be double edged, is that correct?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Tom S.]

I'm confused by this law... I guess the main question I have, if I understand it correctly is, you are allowed to have spring assisted auto knives but they can not be double edged, is that correct?

And apparently, unlike Michigan's firearms laws which cannot be preempted by local laws, this law can. So make sure the locality you are in have no laws outlawing spring assisted knives.

NOTE: If I am wrong in this, please let me know!!

[PhotoTom]

And apparently, unlike Michigan's firearms laws which cannot be preempted by local laws, this law can. So make sure the locality you are in have no laws outlawing spring assisted knives.

NOTE: If I am wrong in this, please let me know!!

You are NOT wrong…you are quite correct.

[Roundballer]

Correct....the State of Michigan no longer bans switchblades. Double bladed knives are still illegal to carry per state law.

Double EDGED knives are only addressed under the category of "fixed blades". I have never read any law that addressed multiple bladed knives.

[Tom S.]

Double EDGED knives are only addressed under the category of "fixed blades". I have never read any law that addressed multiple bladed knives.

That's not a nit I'm willing to pick. In other words, I know what you're saying is true, but I don't want to expend legal expenses proving it in a court of law. :wink:

[detroitbassist]

Multiple bladed knives?!?

Ooh, that sounds like those scary high-capacity swiss army assault knives! I've heard that some even have spoons attached...more tactical options than civilians would ever have a Democrat-approved reason to own!

Seriously though, Michigan REALLY needs knife law pre-emption. Go 30 minutes down the freeway with just about any pocketknife and you roll the dice (at least around here).

[khicks]

could dubble edge knives be referred to as a "DAGGER"

[Roundballer]

could dubble edge knives be referred to as a "DAGGER"

A "dagger" is one of those that are prohibited by name:

MCL 750-227 (http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227)

(1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

What they have in common is the general concept that these are all "stabbing" instruments, and also that they have two sharpened edges.

The whole concept is a fallacy:
"dagger" is actually the shape of the blade and there is no limitation that it has to have both edges sharpened.
"dirk" is of Scottish origin and falls generally into a class of "dagger" shaped, with a style that is more tapered, and is not always sharpened the full length of both sides.
"stiletto" is truly just a "stabbing" instrument, some don't even have a cutting edge, they are round, square or triangular cross-section with a sharp point. The word comes from the Latin for "stick" - "stylus", with the Italian adaptation that it is "small", hence "stiletto". The French referred to it as "main gauche", the "knife that is held in the left hand and is used in that style of fencing as both a shield and for a thrust when the foil or rapier is turned away.

These are all "fixed" non-folding "knives". The use of the word stiletto to refer to an OTF mechanical knife is an improper application.