PDA

View Full Version : CAUTION TO THOSE CARRYING A GUN



november sunrise
03-21-2017, 08:59 AM
Just yesterday I had a situation when unloading my carry gun at home. I am very diligent in watching for "bullet setback" in my carry ammo as I have to unload the gun each night. I found the round that came out of my chamber had setback. A potentially lethal situation. For those not familiar with this, notice the bullet has been pushed back into the case. This would very likely blow up the gun if fired.
Keep an eye on your ammo everyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/31mtwtgrvps4esc/setback%202.JPG?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/31mtwtgrvps4esc/setback%202.JPG?dl=0

red442joe
03-21-2017, 10:07 AM
Thank you for the safety reminder.
Could you elaborate? Pistol model, caliber, brand of ammo, bullet weight,
estimated number of chamberings, nickle or brass cases, as much info as
you feel comfortable.

Joe

november sunrise
03-21-2017, 10:23 AM
Hey Joe
This is from a 9mm Glock 19. The ammo is Hornady. Brass case. 125 grain hollow point. I regularly rotate my ammo in my mag to reduce the chance of this so I really couldn't guess the amount of times this particular round was chambered. From experience, I can say that it can happen even the first time.
We have all been trained to slingshot the slide to load the round. I do this in all situations with the exception of loading my carry gun. I know this can promote setback especially when re-chanbering rounds. I actually ride the slide (slowly let the slide close) on purpose. I know this is not a great idea for everyone but I personally have extensive experience with this and feel this is the proper way for me to extend the life of the carry ammo.
I would not recommend anyone riding the slide unless they are very familiar with their weapon and are 100% certain the round chambered and the slide is closed. If not, your gun is nothing more than a hammer to fend off a threat.
For anyone wanting to learn to "ride the slide" of their carry gun, ask a friend to load up some powderless/ primerless ammo and get used to the feel and proper seating position. It's not difficult but you had better be certain it's done right. Your life could be on the line someday and a "out of battery" weapon is useless.

DrScaryGuy
03-21-2017, 10:52 AM
off topic... but why would you unload your carry gun at home?
seems like the easy way to avoid the problem is to stop rechambering the same rounds (I also rotate when I HAVE to unload for cleaning/maintenance/dryfire/etc).
If you're worried about having a loaded gun laying around in the house... get a pistol safe that is made for storing a gun in condition 0. Otherwise, carry at home too. an unloaded gun isn't any more help at home than it is outside.

somecrazygreek
03-21-2017, 11:12 AM
This is a common issue with people who unload their weapon daily. I am one of those people...don't ask why, it's just preference.

The way I stopped the issue is by having one mag full of my carry ammo that I use for my +1 only, and I rotate. I toss the previously loaded rounds into a drawer, and once the mag is full I re-load it. It basically means that the same rounds are only loaded once or twice a month instead of every day, and by the time they started to set back even the tiniest bit, I already fired them at the range and loaded new ammo. I try to shoot my carry ammo every 3-4 months and buy new stuff.

That explanation was crappy and confusing, sorry!

V1x3nV
03-22-2017, 12:01 AM
Wow, I had no idea this could happen... im going to have to start looking and rotating. I don't unload my carry guns daily though, I only do it when I use one at the range so just a couple times a month

red442joe
03-22-2017, 01:39 AM
november sunrise, thanks for the additional info.
I personally have not seen any setback in any of my carry ammo, but can understand
how it happens.
Always a good idea to keep an eye out for it.

Joe

mikeb32
03-22-2017, 01:56 AM
Wow.....That's a ton!!

DTruck
03-22-2017, 06:43 AM
Let Hornady know that their crimp sucked on that batch.

DrScaryGuy
03-22-2017, 07:23 AM
I usually only cycle the top couple rounds in the magazine. but every now and then I'll rotate those down to the bottom, and do a quick visual check for setback by putting them on the table and holding a piece of paper or something flat along the noses of "new" vs "old" cartridges.
I should probably think about shooting through the mag and loading new stuff soon though, it's probably been 6 months by now

V1x3nV
03-22-2017, 08:52 AM
Carry ammo is only good for about 6 months?

rexzor2007
03-22-2017, 09:30 AM
Green Stamps to the OP for a helpful safety reminder. Thanks for sharing your story.

RifleGuy
03-22-2017, 09:41 AM
Carry ammo is only good for about 6 months?

There is a train of thought, which I ascribe to, that your 'carry' ammo should be rotated out every 6 months, or so. Bullet setback, as noted by the OP, can happen from repeatedly chambering and unchambering a round. There is also the possibility of primer contamination from gun lubricants seeping in over time. Though to be honest, with modern ammunition I don't believe this is a significant issue.
And finally, one should practice with the precise ammo one is carrying... so every now and then dump the magazine down range and reload with 'fresh' ammo. It prevents any of the aforementioned failures, and gives you a chance to practice with the exact ammo you are trusting your life to.

DrScaryGuy
03-22-2017, 01:33 PM
Carry ammo is only good for about 6 months?

There is a train of thought, which I ascribe to, that your 'carry' ammo should be rotated out every 6 months, or so. Bullet setback, as noted by the OP, can happen from repeatedly chambering and unchambering a round. There is also the possibility of primer contamination from gun lubricants seeping in over time. Though to be honest, with modern ammunition I don't believe this is a significant issue.
And finally, one should practice with the precise ammo one is carrying... so every now and then dump the magazine down range and reload with 'fresh' ammo. It prevents any of the aforementioned failures, and gives you a chance to practice with the exact ammo you are trusting your life to.

Yeah, what he said.
Aside from that... IWB carry exposes ammo to a somewhat warm and steamy environment. A lot of guns rust pretty fast in that sort of place, so it's not doing the ammo any good either.

Musta Demoni
03-22-2017, 02:00 PM
off topic... but why would you unload your carry gun at home?
seems like the easy way to avoid the problem is to stop rechambering the same rounds (I also rotate when I HAVE to unload for cleaning/maintenance/dryfire/etc).
If you're worried about having a loaded gun laying around in the house... get a pistol safe that is made for storing a gun in condition 0. Otherwise, carry at home too. an unloaded gun isn't any more help at home than it is outside.

This is the same thing I was thinking.

SuedePflow
03-22-2017, 03:09 PM
I watched a buddy unload/unchamber once and noticed his round was set-back that badly as well. I don't think he rotates the chambered round at all. I somewhat freaked out at how far it was set back and mentioned how dangerous this round would be to fire, but he didn't seem to think it mattered. I really hope he rotated it out by now...



off topic... but why would you unload your carry gun at home?
I was wondering this as well. I see this as making the gun unusable, increasing the odds of a ND, and increasing the chances of damage to the projectile via set-back. My carry guns are loaded/chambered and in their respective holsters in the safe when I'm not wearing it. I usually only ever unchamber/rechamber to shoot target ammo at the range. To each his own though.

DrScaryGuy
03-22-2017, 04:00 PM
I watched a buddy unload/unchamber once and noticed his round was set-back that badly as well. I don't think he rotates the chambered round at all. I somewhat freaked out at how far it was set back and mentioned how dangerous this round would be to fire, but he didn't seem to think it mattered. I really hope he rotated it out by now...

turning glock smiles into glock frowns?

hunterspirit
03-22-2017, 04:18 PM
I'll be shooting out all my carry ammo this weekend , while I'm doing the 6 month change out.
Ammo, mags and gun grease.

HOPEFULLY THEY STAY LOADED UNTIL I go back to the range

pscipio03
03-23-2017, 04:47 PM
Hornady Critical Duty/Carry both have this issue as does Fed HydraShok.
I should say they have in my personal experience. Glocks seem to be harder on chambering than my HKs, but both brands of pistols in 9mm have caused set back with me.
Even in 45 I've had this issue. It's why I don't unload for any reason other than going to the range. And I always put that previous carry ammo into my range ammo and shoot it.
Also, daily unloading/loading causes spring fatigue which is more likely to bite you in the butt than a kaboom.
Something to chew on.

november sunrise
03-23-2017, 05:06 PM
I unload my carry and put the mag next to it in the drawer beside my bed. I am trained to snatch a loaded gun from a drawer, off a table, out of a tackle box or whatever from years of IDPA but think I personally would be better served with them lying side by side in the darkness. I can insert a mag and be looking down the sights much faster than waiting for a safe to unlock and then have the same concern about snatching a loaded gun in the dark. If you have ever tried to grab a loaded gun from a hard surface in a hurry you will know it takes a lot pf practice to do so safely and without triggering the mag release as it is pointing down on the Glocks I shoot. Oh how it would suck to release the mag trying to snatch up your gun for protection.
I can go from lying down flat on the bed to firing within 2 seconds. I KNOW my gun very well and have trained with it. I do not know my safe that well and have little time to train on it. It would only slow me down. I personally think a safe is just that. A SAFE place to store guns. Not a great place to store what you protect yourself with. How many of you have practiced opening your safe in the dark? Now think about doing it under a severe amount of pressure. I don't have small kids or visitors in my home either . That opens a whole new set of rules.
This is just what works for me. Everyone should practice these things and set up your defense system however it works for you and makes you feel well protected.

SuedePflow
03-24-2017, 08:56 AM
I can go from lying down flat on the bed to firing within 2 seconds. I KNOW my gun very well and have trained with it. I do not know my safe that well and have little time to train on it. It would only slow me down. I personally think a safe is just that. A SAFE place to store guns. Not a great place to store what you protect yourself with.
I agree that a bedside/home protection gun should be more accessible than in a safe. My comment on keeping them in the safe was because I have 4 different handguns that I commonly carry. The one I carried that day is chambered and holstered on the nightstand (I have no kids and my GF and I both carry). The other three are chambered and holstered in the safe. I don't even bother unchambering those because I very well might carry one of them within the next couple days.

november sunrise
03-24-2017, 01:27 PM
I agree that a bedside/home protection gun should be more accessible than in a safe. My comment on keeping them in the safe was because I have 4 different handguns that I commonly carry. The one I carried that day is chambered and holstered on the nightstand (I have no kids and my GF and I both carry). The other three are chambered and holstered in the safe. I don't even bother unchambering those because I very well might carry one of them within the next couple days.

Yea...Nice...
Everyone should have their own game plan and practice it when possible. You may feel a little awkward doing so at times but it's better than playing dead. I carried a 9mm Shield for quite some time. Great shooting gun but unlike my competition guns , it had a safety. I practiced with it a lot and felt it was a good companion.
Until...About 18 months into carrying it, I went to the range one day for practice. I brought my regular competition gear and that was my focus for the day. When i stepped into the shooting bay, my buddy yelled, "take em". This was in regards to a target of a bad guy left in the bay. I quickly dropped my range bag, drew my Shield from concealment and had a complete breakdown trying to engage the bad guy because I failed to release the safety. THIS was the last day I carried a gun with a safety. My point, don't carry a mixed bag of guns unless they all either do or do not have safety's. Carry what you train with in that regard.
I may never have known this would have happened if it weren't for the "surprise" call for engagement.

Jeep olllllo
03-25-2017, 06:08 PM
I unload my carry and put the mag next to it in the drawer beside my bed. I am trained to snatch a loaded gun from a drawer, off a table, out of a tackle box or whatever from years of IDPA but think I personally would be better served with them lying side by side in the darkness. I can insert a mag and be looking down the sights much faster than waiting for a safe to unlock and then have the same concern about snatching a loaded gun in the dark. If you have ever tried to grab a loaded gun from a hard surface in a hurry you will know it takes a lot pf practice to do so safely and without triggering the mag release as it is pointing down on the Glocks I shoot. Oh how it would suck to release the mag trying to snatch up your gun for protection.
I can go from lying down flat on the bed to firing within 2 seconds. I KNOW my gun very well and have trained with it. I do not know my safe that well and have little time to train on it. It would only slow me down. I personally think a safe is just that. A SAFE place to store guns. Not a great place to store what you protect yourself with. How many of you have practiced opening your safe in the dark? Now think about doing it under a severe amount of pressure. I don't have small kids or visitors in my home either . That opens a whole new set of rules.
This is just what works for me. Everyone should practice these things and set up your defense system however it works for you and makes you feel well protected.

If you dont have kids, why bother unloading at all? Any safety concern you have that would make you unload the gun, should be the same safety concern that makes you put your gun in a safe.

Thanks for the pics of the set back. I have not seen one that bad before. Nice catch.

somecrazygreek
03-27-2017, 11:56 AM
I unload my carry and put the mag next to it in the drawer beside my bed. I am trained to snatch a loaded gun from a drawer, off a table, out of a tackle box or whatever from years of IDPA but think I personally would be better served with them lying side by side in the darkness. I can insert a mag and be looking down the sights much faster than waiting for a safe to unlock and then have the same concern about snatching a loaded gun in the dark. If you have ever tried to grab a loaded gun from a hard surface in a hurry you will know it takes a lot pf practice to do so safely and without triggering the mag release as it is pointing down on the Glocks I shoot. Oh how it would suck to release the mag trying to snatch up your gun for protection.
I can go from lying down flat on the bed to firing within 2 seconds. I KNOW my gun very well and have trained with it. I do not know my safe that well and have little time to train on it. It would only slow me down. I personally think a safe is just that. A SAFE place to store guns. Not a great place to store what you protect yourself with. How many of you have practiced opening your safe in the dark? Now think about doing it under a severe amount of pressure. I don't have small kids or visitors in my home either . That opens a whole new set of rules.
This is just what works for me. Everyone should practice these things and set up your defense system however it works for you and makes you feel well protected.

This sounds really unsafe. Not having a round chambered is one thing, but keeping the mag out of the weapon?

You may have trained, but in an emergency situation trying to get your mag in the gun AND rack it could get you killed.

Jeep olllllo
03-27-2017, 06:02 PM
This sounds really unsafe. Not having a round chambered is one thing, but keeping the mag out of the weapon?

You may have trained, but in an emergency situation trying to get your mag in the gun AND rack it could get you killed.

I see where you are going, but I bet his way is just as fast, if not faster, than pulling a loaded gun out of a safe.

P.S. I am digging your new avatar.

somecrazygreek
03-27-2017, 06:04 PM
I see where you are going, but I bet his way is just as fast, if not faster, than pulling a loaded gun out of a safe.

P.S. I am digging your new avatar.
That's why ya shouldn't keep a loaded gun In the safe! Be better to keep a stick next to your bed.

Also thank you, tried to make it a picture of my Star Wars half sleeve but the resolution requirements for the avatar blows.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

Jeep olllllo
03-27-2017, 06:06 PM
That's why ya shouldn't keep a loaded gun In the safe! Be better to keep a stick next to your bed.

Also thank you, tried to make it a picture of my Star Wars half sleeve but the resolution requirements for the avatar blows.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

Yeah, but you got jokers like me with kids, and their friends. Safe is not optional.

somecrazygreek
03-27-2017, 06:08 PM
Yeah, but you got jokers like me with kids, and their friends. Safe is not optional.
True. Luckily I won't have to figure out how to balance defense with gun safety anytime soon.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

oldmann1967
03-27-2017, 08:30 PM
That's why ya shouldn't keep a loaded gun In the safe! Be better to keep a stick next to your bed.

Also thank you, tried to make it a picture of my Star Wars half sleeve but the resolution requirements for the avatar blows.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

Then please post your sleeve in the appropriate area. Must see!

somecrazygreek
03-27-2017, 08:32 PM
Then please post your sleeve in the appropriate area. Must see!
Here is a crappy picture from my Instagram for now. I'll try and take some better ones later. Hard to get pictures of your own arm Haha

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/f345d78e0ea20f824586870bf94d71b6.jpg

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

somecrazygreek
03-27-2017, 08:42 PM
Alright here's two better ones. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/9529083203971b016da0dd370f6be110.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/d6d8265fcbb4760398b3326e917022d5.jpg

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

XDM 40 cal
03-27-2017, 09:17 PM
FYI I've shot a Set back Round in 40 and 45.. No issue with either.. 90% of the time mine are loaded.. If I unload and reload the next round get loaded and top off with the round that was in the chamber...

Jeep olllllo
03-27-2017, 09:21 PM
The Star Wars tats are sick! Very cool.

Reminds me of the coolest Star Wars model I have ever seen.

http://dimic.ikaryas.nl/2012/news/want-to-do-some-good/

Scroll a little less than a quarter of the way down. Look for a model titled "Endor Reclaims". One of the most creative models ever.

P.S. Fett's antenna is on the wrong side on your tat. Maybe it's cause you from Canada and are used to the metric system?

ChaneyD
03-27-2017, 10:12 PM
Never had setback and reload my own. I've seen setback occur when someone dropped a loose round in the gun and closed the chamber. Never had an issue with ammo I do not rotate. What's the reason behind this? Ammo doesn't usually go bad. I'm shooting WWII era .45acp and everyone goes boom.

Jeep olllllo
03-28-2017, 07:04 AM
Never had setback and reload my own. I've seen setback occur when someone dropped a loose round in the gun and closed the chamber. Never had an issue with ammo I do not rotate. What's the reason behind this? Ammo doesn't usually go bad. I'm shooting WWII era .45acp and everyone goes boom.

You may be on to something there. Perhaps when he reloads, he does not strip one off the mag. Maybe he is dropping the loose round in the chamber directly.

oldmann1967
03-28-2017, 07:52 AM
Alright here's two better ones. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/9529083203971b016da0dd370f6be110.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/d6d8265fcbb4760398b3326e917022d5.jpg

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

Totally awesome man! Thanks for sharing!

somecrazygreek
03-28-2017, 07:55 AM
The Star Wars tats are sick! Very cool.

Reminds me of the coolest Star Wars model I have ever seen.

http://dimic.ikaryas.nl/2012/news/want-to-do-some-good/

Scroll a little less than a quarter of the way down. Look for a model titled "Endor Reclaims". One of the most creative models ever.

P.S. Fett's antenna is on the wrong side on your tat. Maybe it's cause you from Canada and are used to the metric system?
Man that's really cool!

Also, yeah, I didn't even notice that, haha oh well. That's what I get for drawing my own tattoo. Whoops, let's just say he's a Canadian alternative version of Boba :D

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

Omni
03-28-2017, 08:28 AM
You may be on to something there. Perhaps when he reloads, he does not strip one off the mag. Maybe he is dropping the loose round in the chamber directly.

If so, isn't that a good way to break an extractor and create just another way to make the gun unreliable?

Nice Tats btw.

SuedePflow
03-28-2017, 08:53 AM
Never had setback and reload my own. I've seen setback occur when someone dropped a loose round in the gun and closed the chamber. Never had an issue with ammo I do not rotate. What's the reason behind this? Ammo doesn't usually go bad. I'm shooting WWII era .45acp and everyone goes boom.

You may be on to something there. Perhaps when he reloads, he does not strip one off the mag. Maybe he is dropping the loose round in the chamber directly.
I assume projectile set-back occurs when a the projectile is forcefully pushed against the feed ramp of the barrel upon stripping from the mag. I don't see how set-back could happen if you chamber manually my dropping the round into the chamber. In that instance, the projectile doesn't even touch anything with any force.

Jackam
03-28-2017, 08:59 AM
And finally, one should practice with the precise ammo one is carrying... so every now and then dump the magazine down range and reload with 'fresh' ammo. It prevents any of the aforementioned failures, and gives you a chance to practice with the exact ammo you are trusting your life to.

I have such a hard time with this.

I know it's sage advice. It's just tough to do!

ChaneyD
03-28-2017, 09:15 AM
I assume projectile set-back occurs when a the projectile is forcefully pushed against the feed ramp of the barrel upon stripping from the mag. I don't see how set-back could happen if you chamber manually my dropping the round into the chamber. In that instance, the projectile doesn't even touch anything with any force.

Of course it does. Stripping the round from the mag slows the slide down enough to prevent setback. Dropping the round into the chamber you have the full force of the slide hammering the round. Google it.

SuedePflow
03-28-2017, 09:20 AM
Of course it does. Stripping the round from the mag slows the slide down enough to prevent setback. Dropping the round into the chamber you have the full force of the slide hammering the round. Google it.

Hammering the round? Against what, exactly? When you set the round into the chamber by hand, the following two things are true:

1) Nothing touches the projectile.

2) The round never moves. It's already in place and located based upon the brass not the projectile. The force of the slide only brings the extractor over the rim edge.


Upon Google searching, all links suggest setback is "most likely to occur when the bullet nose of a semi-auto pistol round strikes the barrel feed ramp while the cartridge is being chambered".

ChaneyD
03-28-2017, 09:47 AM
It's the centrifugal force that causes the setback. Easy physics.

SuedePflow
03-28-2017, 10:01 AM
It's the centrifugal force that causes the setback. Easy physics.

Please share. How much centrifugal force is applied to a chambered round when the force of the moving slide pushes the extractor over the case rim?


I've checked set-back of my .40 and 38 Special handloads against recoil, and they don't move. This is equivalent to the house holding up to the hurricane but worrying about the breeze. I just don't buy it. I bet I could hand chamber a round and send the slide home 20 times, and the COAL never changes. But if I chamber it from the mag, I'll bet it becomes shorter. Maybe I'll give it a whirl tonight...

Jeep olllllo
03-28-2017, 10:47 AM
If so, isn't that a good way to break an extractor and create just another way to make the gun unreliable?

Nice Tats btw.

I honestly don't know. I am just spitballing here.

ChaneyD
03-28-2017, 10:56 AM
Yes, your extractor is subjected to break. The claw grabs the shell from underneath, but dropping the shell in forces the extractor to go over the top.

Musta Demoni
03-28-2017, 02:41 PM
Here are my thoughts... no kids in the house... stop with all the unloading. Place firearm on night stand. Sleep. Wake up. Place firearm in holster. Carry. Wash/rinse/repeat. :idea:

Roundballer
03-28-2017, 03:09 PM
It's the centrifugal force that causes the setback. Easy physics.
Where did you take this physics class?


Please share. How much centrifugal force is applied to a chambered round when the force of the moving slide pushes the extractor over the case rim?

It is directly proportional to the tangential acceleration that causes the cartridge to rotate around a central point. (0).

november sunrise
03-29-2017, 11:47 AM
If you dont have kids, why bother unloading at all? Any safety concern you have that would make you unload the gun, should be the same safety concern that makes you put your gun in a safe.

Thanks for the pics of the set back. I have not seen one that bad before. Nice catch.

Good thought...I'm never too old to learn new tricks. I have grown so used to having them lying side by side in training that I just kept doing it at home. That can save some time in a hurry.

november sunrise
03-29-2017, 11:54 AM
Never had setback and reload my own. I've seen setback occur when someone dropped a loose round in the gun and closed the chamber. Never had an issue with ammo I do not rotate. What's the reason behind this? Ammo doesn't usually go bad. I'm shooting WWII era .45acp and everyone goes boom.
I too reload thousands of rounds each year. Never had an issue with mine. However, I generally shoot every round on the first chambering too.I would never load my own carry ammo. I hope you don't either...

jtivat
03-29-2017, 12:00 PM
Here are my thoughts... no kids in the house... stop with all the unloading. Place firearm on night stand. Sleep. Wake up. Place firearm in holster. Carry. Wash/rinse/repeat. :idea:

I like this also, way to much chance of mag ending on the ground if woke from dead sleep at 3am trying to grab both and load gun.

AxlMyk
03-31-2017, 10:10 AM
My G26 goes from the holster right to the night stand drawer. 10+1
An empty gun is a useless gun.

Ra's al Ghul
04-03-2017, 02:23 AM
Some food for thought...

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/03/05/battered-bullets-does-bullet-setback-matter/

ChaneyD
04-03-2017, 07:43 AM
I would never load my own carry ammo. I hope you don't either...

I carry my own reloaded carry ammo. Why not? It's precise and IMHO is better than factory.

Jeep olllllo
04-03-2017, 12:14 PM
I carry my own reloaded carry ammo. Why not? It's precise and IMHO is better than factory.

I dont reload, but if I did, I would always carry my own loads. Because if I made them, I know they are good. Assuming of course I am not using brass that has been used 25 times before or something stupid like that.

Mr. Waverly
04-03-2017, 01:35 PM
Some, myself included, are concerned with the potential legal consequences of carrying reloads for SD purposes. For example, making the round "more dangerous," or loaded to different specs to "inflict greater damage" on the victim.

ChaneyD
04-03-2017, 03:47 PM
Any cites on that please? LOL lethal is lethal. How do you get MORE lethal?

november sunrise
04-05-2017, 10:20 AM
I carry my own reloaded carry ammo. Why not? It's precise and IMHO is better than factory.

I too trust my own ammo more than factory. The problem is if you ever had to use it in self defense, can you be certain ballistically the round will not pass thru the aggressor? That creates a whole new level of risk.
And...Can you imagine the prosecutor telling the jury of how you sat in the basement of your house drooling from seething anger issues developing "your own" ammunition to be certain you "punish" anyone who dared confront you? With such a small percentage of people that load their own ammo in existence, what are the odds of even one jury member understanding your thought process about loading your own? Not good.
If ever I was asked why I choose the carry ammo I do, My answer is "If this is what the police use to protect the public,it MUST be a good choice for me to use to protect my self as well."

mosnar87
04-05-2017, 12:14 PM
Snip...
If ever I was asked why I choose the carry ammo I do, My answer is "If this is what the police use to protect the public,it MUST be a good choice for me to use to protect my self as well."

The correct answer to that and any other question after a self-defense shooting: "I invoke my fifth amendment right and would like to speak to my lawyer."

ChaneyD
04-05-2017, 12:54 PM
I too trust my own ammo more than factory. The problem is if you ever had to use it in self defense, can you be certain ballistically the round will not pass thru the aggressor? That creates a whole new level of risk.
And...Can you imagine the prosecutor telling the jury of how you sat in the basement of your house drooling from seething anger issues developing "your own" ammunition to be certain you "punish" anyone who dared confront you? With such a small percentage of people that load their own ammo in existence, what are the odds of even one jury member understanding your thought process about loading your own? Not good.
If ever I was asked why I choose the carry ammo I do, My answer is "If this is what the police use to protect the public,it MUST be a good choice for me to use to protect my self as well."

This is nothing short of fear mongering. It's laughable that a DA would even attempt to put this to a jury like that. I don't know of anyone that's been found guilty of loading their own SD ammo.

Leader
04-05-2017, 01:28 PM
. The problem is if you ever had to use it in self defense, can you be certain ballistically the round will not pass thru the aggressor?


Can you be certain that a factory load will not pass through?

For you I would suggest you don't carry or even own a firearm, that way you can not be tempted to shoot anyone and will not have to defend yourself in court.

november sunrise
04-05-2017, 01:36 PM
This is nothing short of fear mongering. It's laughable that a DA would even attempt to put this to a jury like that. I don't know of anyone that's been found guilty of loading their own SD ammo.

No fear mongering...It's just from a responsible firearm owner who would rather not end up in jail for something so irrelevant and "NEEDING" to carry their handmade ammo. The problem lies with people who carry only because they have something to prove. Sort of like "little man's disease." If you can't afford a big truck, buy a hundred dollar handgun, make your own rounds and brandish it whenever you can...

november sunrise
04-05-2017, 01:48 PM
Can you be certain that a factory load will not pass through?

For you I would suggest you don't carry or even own a firearm, that way you can not be tempted to shoot anyone and will not have to defend yourself in court.

I'll type this slowly as It's painfully clear you struggle with reading and comprehension. Why all the negativity? why can't you just take from the post what you will and leave it at that?

Leader
04-05-2017, 02:29 PM
I'll type this slowly as It's painfully clear you struggle with reading and comprehension. Why all the negativity? why can't you just take from the post what you will and leave it at that?

In other words, you can't logically come up with a reason for your actions so you resort to third grade insults in the hopes nobody will notice.

ChaneyD
04-05-2017, 03:00 PM
No fear mongering...It's just from a responsible firearm owner who would rather not end up in jail for something so irrelevant and "NEEDING" to carry their handmade ammo. The problem lies with people who carry only because they have something to prove. Sort of like "little man's disease." If you can't afford a big truck, buy a hundred dollar handgun, make your own rounds and brandish it whenever you can...

I do my own so that I know for sure it's the best there is. Everything is properly measured and gauged. The only thing I have to prove is that mine is better than factory, which it is. Jail? Cite please, someone going to jail for reloading his own.

JDG
04-06-2017, 05:32 AM
Riding the slide, press check if your not sure, easy way to prevent setback. Thanks for the reminder!

"It's the centrifugal force that causes the setback. Easy physics." Thanks for the lol!!

somecrazygreek
04-18-2017, 12:29 PM
Riding the slide, press check if your not sure, easy way to prevent setback. Thanks for the reminder!

"It's the centrifugal force that causes the setback. Easy physics." Thanks for the lol!!

Another good way to prevent setback is buy good ammo ;)

I unload my weapon every night, have never had even a single millimeter of setback with this ammo. I only use Federal HST, I HAVE noticed setback before when I used other brands (Hornady mostly)

JDG
04-19-2017, 09:21 PM
Another good way to prevent setback is buy good ammo ;)

I unload my weapon every night, have never had even a single millimeter of setback with this ammo. I only use Federal HST, I HAVE noticed setback before when I used other brands (Hornady mostly)

I chambered a Federal Hydrashok over and over 20+ times, had no setback. Deformed the tip a bit however.... Horny day is good ammo too.

kdogg
05-18-2017, 09:13 AM
I have 3 Federal HST 9mm rounds that have suffered bullet setback from a GLOCK 19 more so than I would consider safe to shoot. Each one has been chambered multiple times but I do rotated my ammo.

Kefefs
05-25-2017, 05:40 PM
Some food for thought...

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2013/03/05/battered-bullets-does-bullet-setback-matter/

Thanks for that. I'm really glad we have someone like Andrew Tuohy around to cut through all the BS and actually test things like this. That test and the AR muzzle device testing he did are favourites of mine.

So yeah, bullet setback, especially to a minor degree, isn't anything to be afraid of. I've fired 9x19mm and .380 ammo with (minor) setback a few times and had no issues, they fire and cycle like anything else. When I notice a carry cartridge that's substantially set back I move it to the bottom of a backup magazine, then fire that first when I get fresh carry ammo.

The fear surrounding setback is largely borne of internet hypotheticals and gun shop experts, not actual instances of it causing someone's gun to explode or otherwise fail.

Ra's al Ghul
05-25-2017, 05:45 PM
Thanks for that. I'm really glad we have someone like Andrew Tuohy around to cut through all the BS and actually test things like this. That test and the AR muzzle device testing he did are favourites of mine.

So yeah, bullet setback, especially to a minor degree, isn't anything to be afraid of. I've fired 9x19mm and .380 ammo with (minor) setback a few times and had no issues, they fire and cycle like anything else. When I notice a carry cartridge that's substantially set back I move it to the bottom of a backup magazine, then fire that first when I get fresh carry ammo.

The fear surrounding setback is largely borne of internet hypotheticals and gun shop experts, not actual instances of it causing someone's gun to explode or otherwise fail.

My only concern is that after being chambered enough times the extractor groove near the case head is beat up pretty badly and I'd hate to have a round FTE because I'm too cheap to replace it. So I replace and shoot the first two every few months as they become more and more misshaped.

And I agree, the big scare with bullet setback is the unsubstantiated nonsense of armchair experts trying to sell people more ammo.

EricVincent
06-13-2017, 06:15 AM
Good idea. Agreed!

AxlMyk
06-14-2017, 10:31 AM
My only concern is that after being chambered enough times the extractor groove near the case head is beat up pretty badly and I'd hate to have a round FTE because I'm too cheap to replace it. So I replace and shoot the first two every few months as they become more and more misshaped.

And I agree, the big scare with bullet setback is the unsubstantiated nonsense of armchair experts trying to sell people more ammo.
I keep a close eye on my cases, and check each one while going through the sorting, cleaning, loading steps. Many of my 9mm have been used 20-30 times. I have not noticed any scarring or wear, except for just a few. I figured they were someone else's from the case stamps.
I'm shooting Glocks.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

DropYaTop
11-28-2017, 07:56 AM
I love these forums..I always find good advice.

langenc
11-28-2017, 09:30 AM
Let Hornady know that their crimp sucked on that batch.

I believe this is an excellent idea whenever there is a problem w/ any part of shooting equip.

JimSig
11-28-2017, 11:17 AM
Just wondering if someone had tried to re-crimp factory SD ammo just to make sure the crimp is robust enough.. Any one has done this before..
If I have the time I would run an experiment with reloading one SD round multiple times and measure the OAL to establish a mapping function of setback versus number of clambering the bullet.
Then i would pick another SD round from the same box and re-crimp using my Lee factory crimping die and repeat the experiment.. One day i would get to try this.

Until then, I really like the proposal by crazygreek, after all you have to practice from time to time with the SD ammo.

Jeep olllllo
11-28-2017, 12:47 PM
Just wondering if someone had tried to re-crimp factory SD ammo just to make sure the crimp is robust enough.. Any one has done this before..
If I have the time I would run an experiment with reloading one SD round multiple times and measure the OAL to establish a mapping function of setback versus number of clambering the bullet.
Then i would pick another SD round from the same box and re-crimp using my Lee factory crimping die and repeat the experiment.. One day i would get to try this.

Until then, I really like the proposal by crazygreek, after all you have to practice from time to time with the SD ammo.

You should listen to Somecrazygreek, since he owns enough guns to fill five gun stores and works for the ATF.

Seriously though, I do the same thing. Just blast em through on occasion.