How do these guns get stolen?

[Iamero]

Edit: Forgot this was still around from a year ago since I haven't been on here much. Sucks to see some new guns getting posted on here by different members every couple of months. Keeping the thread around so people can keep discussing it if they want, and some of the original content and opinions are floating around below as well.

Good to see the discussion. I removed some of the original content because it was a bit short sighted and you guys have done a good job at changing my opinion around a bit about securing firearms on/in your property. Carry on, MGO.

[Glock2340ACP]

Why do adults need to keep their guns put away in a safe? Every time they leave the house they need to put them in the safe? I have kids so mine are out or reach and yes, in the safe. But for the most part, if you don't have kids running through your home. You can keep them out in the open. It's against the law to B&E, so the contents of what they take isn't the point, they are breaking the law the moment they breach the property.

How do Rolex's get stolen? PS4's, Laptops..........

[TylerV76]

Yeah I don't get why you wouldn't feel bad for someone who's property was broken into and stolen. Sounds alot like sympathizing with criminals. I mean I guess they gotta buy clothes and shoes for school and all but burglary is kinda illegal.



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[DrScaryGuy]

I have no kids, and my wife and I host very few visitors. most of the visitors we have are familiar with guns and wouldn't mess with them even if they found them. when untrained kids show up, things get put away.
I have a few that live outside of the safe because there's no reason for me to not have a few guns "in use". can't unload/make safe/lock all of them up every time i go out on a milk and bread run.

[Iamero]

Your PS4 won't be used in a crime (unless you consider selling stolen property) or kill someone on the street if it gets stolen...there's a reason you have to be more responsible with a firearm than a PlayStation. There's a reason you have a background check for a firearm, but not a PS4.

Saying I sympathize with criminals is quite a far stretch. I'm just saying that the easier you make it for a criminal to steal a gun, the less bad I feel for you leaving it in a position where it could be stolen. It sucks for anyone who gets their property stolen, and I hate thieves. I just don't find it that hard to lock up the guns every time I leave the house. It takes less than 5 minutes to put them in the safe and lock it up.

[Glock2340ACP]

If someone was to do a home invasion, there's no chance in heck I'm gonna make it to the safe in time to get one out. You may be thinking a young/healthy 20 year old running to the safe, what about Grandma/Grandpa who have bad knees and it takes 2-3 minutes to get up out of a chair. Your giving the criminals too much undeserved credit/sympathy here. Guns are bad, cars are bad in the wrong hands, knives are bad...........

[TylerV76]

Your PS4 won't be used in a crime (unless you consider selling stolen property) or kill someone on the street if it gets stolen...there's a reason you have to be more responsible with a firearm than a PlayStation. There's a reason you have a background check for a firearm, but not a PS4.

Saying I sympathize with criminals is quite a far stretch. I'm just saying that the easier you make it for a criminal to steal a gun, the less bad I feel for you leaving it in a position where it could be stolen. It sucks for anyone who gets their property stolen, and I hate thieves. I just don't find it that hard to lock up the guns every time I leave the house. It takes less than 5 minutes to put them in the safe and lock it up.

Again, why should I have to secure MY property in MY home that I have given no access to anyone but myself?

Stay out of my home and there wouldn't be any stolen property.

God I hate victim blaming. "That damn girl shoulda never wore that dress and she wouldn't have been raped". Such a stupid argument.



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[DP425]

I always wondered that with all these stolen guns. I get if they bust your window in your car when you’re out and about, but if you keep a gun in your car overnight and they bust the window and steal it, I don’t feel too bad for you.

But the ones stolen from homes, are these just laying around or in like 15lb stack on safes? My safe alone is 650lbs so unless they are torching that sucker open, they aren’t walking away with it.

Get a couple dogs, and that’s just another layer of protection haha.

I more posted this not to criticize others, but to keep myself and my firearms protected. I want to know if I’m not thinking of something that makes them more vulnerable than anticiped.

I get what happens with mail carrier and porch theft, that just pisses me off.


Your 650lb "safe", is frankly... not worth much. My cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel would prob have me in that sucker, in 10-15min tops, using one battery. Unless you have effectively blocked access to the top, back, and both sides... and bolted it down as well. Don't make too many assumptions.

[mudoven]

"How do these guns get stolen?", simple...thieves. They can be resourceful, and tend to learn from each other and their mistakes.

Having a safe doesn't make you exempt from thievery. Banks, gun shops, etc. routinely have their safes broken into...and I'll bet their safes are better than yours.

[BPS]

If someone was to do a home invasion, there's no chance in heck I'm gonna make it to the safe in time to get one out. You may be thinking a young/healthy 20 year old running to the safe, what about Grandma/Grandpa who have bad knees and it takes 2-3 minutes to get up out of a chair. Your giving the criminals too much undeserved credit/sympathy here. Guns are bad, cars are bad in the wrong hands, knives are bad...........
Your clueless.
you wear your sidearm on you at all times and you take it seriously who’s being responsible.
You don’t buckle your seat belt when you know an accidents about to happen you buckle it before you drive so in the event of an accident it’s on and prepared to do its job, same with a sidearm.
You need to learn to take firearm ownership seriously and be responsible with them, your prior posts in this thread lead me to believe your neither.

[Outdoorman]

Do you still lose your CPL if your gun is stolen from your vehicle?

About 15 years ago two buddies lost their CPL permits after their handguns were stolen out of their cars.

[BPS]

Your 650lb "safe", is frankly... not worth much. My cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel would prob have me in that sucker, in 10-15min tops, using one battery. Unless you have effectively blocked access to the top, back, and both sides... and bolted it down as well. Don't make too many assumptions.
my cameras will notify me when your on my property let alone in my house let alone to where my safe is located and my police station is less than a mile away so between the cameras dog and safe and distance from LE i’ve cut that 10-15 minute window down to around 2 minutes and they will not be in my safe in that time frame.
I get notified the second my cameras pick up motion and If need be LE is notified immediately.

[DP425]

Do you still lose your CPL if your gun is stolen from your vehicle?

About 15 years ago two buddies lost their CPL permits after their handguns were stolen out of their cars.

As far as I know, that's never been a part of the CPL law.

[Iamero]

As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).

I knew the rape reference was going to come up in this thread at some point. Bad things happen to good people, but just because they happen doesn't mean that something can't be done to prevent them from happening to others in the future. Just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it won't. We live in a bad world, but rather than crossing your fingers and hoping the bad guy doesn't break into your home or car and stealing your gun that is sitting out in the open, why not take the extra step to secure it?

As BPS mentioned; I also carry my sidearm on me. In the home it is on or near me when I am awake or sleeping. When I leave the house, it is either on me or it is in the safe. I don't leave it on the night stand and say "OK bad guys, this is MY home and MY gun so don't take it!". Just because you have the right to leave your guns wherever you want when you leave doesn't mean that's a good idea.

I don't lock up my laptops and TVs because as mentioned before, those won't kill people in the unfortunate event they are stolen. If someone breaks in and they are after stuff to sell then I guess my hope is that they are satisfied with those things and leave my safe alone. Like BPS, I have notifications when movement happens. The cops will be there before they can get into my safe, and most likely my dogs will scare them out of the house with a laptop or two before they have time to angle grind or torch my safe. I have a security system on the house and cameras on my safe, plus the dogs, but there are ways around those things. But just because there are ways around those measures doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least try to protect my belongings.

[DP425]

my cameras will notify me when your on my property let alone in my house let alone to where my safe is located and my police station is less than a mile away so between the cameras dog and safe and distance from LE i’ve cut that 10-15 minute window down to around 2 minutes and they will not be in my safe in that time frame.
I get notified the second my cameras pick up motion and If need be LE is notified immediately.

Okay... that's nice... I didn't reply to you though.

But you do reinforce my point- don't make too many assumptions about what value a "safe" brings. Your RSC (residential storage container) is a small part of a much larger security plan. The cameras/alarm, dog, and LE are where the true value is at. Chances are, with those at your disposal, your theft protection would be about equal no matter what type of container you keep your firearms in... so long as they aren't in obvious/plain sight.

The common "gun safe" is little more than a speed-bump on it's own.

[Danco411]

Yep heavy safe, security cameras and two Aussies do the trick. Those who have been to my shop know my dogs. They are not mean but they are loud! Everyone gets to meet them. LOL

[Iamero]

The common "gun safe" is little more than a speed-bump on it's own.

Lol, I like that reference.

[Leader]

As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).

I knew the rape reference was going to come up in this thread at some point. Bad things happen to good people, but just because they happen doesn't mean that something can't be done to prevent them from happening to others in the future. Just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it won't. We live in a bad world, but rather than crossing your fingers and hoping the bad guy doesn't break into your home or car and stealing your gun that is sitting out in the open, why not take the extra step to secure it?

As BPS mentioned; I also carry my sidearm on me. In the home it is on or near me when I am awake or sleeping. When I leave the house, it is either on me or it is in the safe. I don't leave it on the night stand and say "OK bad guys, this is MY home and MY gun so don't take it!". Just because you have the right to leave your guns wherever you want when you leave doesn't mean that's a good idea.

I don't lock up my laptops and TVs because as mentioned before, those won't kill people in the unfortunate event they are stolen. If someone breaks in and they are after stuff to sell then I guess my hope is that they are satisfied with those things and leave my safe alone. Like BPS, I have notifications when movement happens. The cops will be there before they can get into my safe, and most likely my dogs will scare them out of the house with a laptop or two before they have time to angle grind or torch my safe. I have a security system on the house and cameras on my safe, plus the dogs, but there are ways around those things. But just because there are ways around those measures doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least try to protect my belongings.

What happens when the thief first cuts the power to your home?
How long does it take for you to find out if it is just a blown fuse, car taking out a utility poll or a flood?
How long before you notify the police that you have a power outage & then how long before they respond?

In your case, I would recommend you store your guns in a safe deposit box at one of the larger banks in the biggest city near you.
You might even hire some armed guards to augment the security at that bank.

Can't be too careful now can you?

[DP425]

As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).


To get real protection from a safe, you have to spend a very significant amount of money... or, as you said, cement it into a wall. Consider where the weight of your safe comes in- about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total is in the door alone. Half of the remaining weight comes from the "fireproofing" and interior construction. That leaves you with a steel body that weighs somewhere around a couple hundred pounds- perhaps as little as 100lbs. Spread that out across the full dimensions of the body.

Most safe bodies are 14 (0.075") or 12ga (0.107") steel. That is thin enough, that you could put a hole in it with a decent ax.

So your options are:
-buy a REAL safe... which will likely run you $6,000 or more.
-set your RSC into a concrete wall (encased)... grossly impractical for all but the smallest units
-have a vault door on a hardened room... very costly if not done when home is built, using concrete.
-combine your RSC with other safe-guards such as trained dogs, monitored alarm system, visible and hidden cameras, and doing your best to hide the RSC.
-just buy a quality firearms insurance policy and continue business as usual.


It is also important to note that, the fire protection of RSC isn't really something you should be counting on. Not only is the dry-wall used in most "gun safes", a very, very poor method of hardening against fire... most of it also contains oxidizing chemicals that off-gas on their own to some degree, and at a very high rate when exposed to high temps. Long story short, not only is your RSC not very effective at protecting against fire, no matter what the manufacture claims, it has the potential to rust your firearms despite ideal storage conditions (low humidity), and will almost certainly do so should you experience a fire.

Now consider a good firearms insurance policy such as through Chubb/Eastern Historic, will cover ANY sort of loss, at ANY location... and the premium is usually relatively low. You'll spend much more on monthly service fees with a monitored alarm system. At the end of the day though, you're the only one who can decide what is best for you, your home, family, and firearms collection. I cannot find fault in someone who keeps their $1500 worth of firearms hidden in the closets, under piles of clothes. The cost vs loss comparison for any additional means of protection just doesn't seem to add up as a worthwhile expenditure.



EDIT: It almost sounds like I'm anti-RSC. That isn't really the case. My current home doesn't have a basement, and it's too small for a RSC, so I keep almost all of my firearms and related items at my father's home... where I have a RSC, bolted to the floor, in a room with a separate ADT alarm circuit and keypad. Inside the RSC, I have several large desiccant containers which I recharge often, and several corrosion inhibiting vapor emitters (they are relatively cheap, and last about 2 years). My next home, which I'll build in 4-5 years, will have a LARGE vault room, and I'll leave my RSC at my dad's place, where it will be virtually empty since his collection is rather small.

[Iamero]

What happens when the thief first cuts the power to your home?
How long does it take for you to find out if it is just a blown fuse, car taking out a utility poll or a flood?
How long before you notify the police that you have a power outage & then how long before they respond?

In your case, I would recommend you store your guns in a safe deposit box at one of the larger banks in the biggest city near you.
You might even hire some armed guards to augment the security at that bank.

Can't be too careful now can you?

Soooo you're saying that because there is no way to 100% secure my guns short of this stellar advice that I should just not even try at all?

[Iamero]

It is also important to note that, the fire protection of RSC isn't really something you should be counting on. Not only is the dry-wall used in most "gun safes", a very, very poor method of hardening against fire... most of it also contains oxidizing chemicals that off-gas on their own to some degree, and at a very high rate when exposed to high temps. Long story short, not only is your RSC not very effective at protecting against fire, no matter what the manufacture claims, it has the potential to rust your firearms despite ideal storage conditions (low humidity), and will almost certainly do so should you experience a fire.

Yea fire protection is a whole other aspect to the safe that is a problem in itself. Not to mention that even if it had proper fire protection, when the burned floor weakened and my safe dropped 10 feet onto the cement in the basement, that would be a problem in its own!

[BPS]

Again, why should I have to secure MY property in MY home that I have given no access to anyone but myself?

Stay out of my home and there wouldn't be any stolen property.

God I hate victim blaming. "That damn girl shoulda never wore that dress and she wouldn't have been raped". Such a stupid argument.



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The only victims are the ones getting shot by stolen firearm not secured properly by irrresponsibls gun owners

By your logic I shouldn’t have to wear my seat belt because my vehicle is my property and i didn’t give you permission to smash into me..

[TylerV76]

The only victims are the ones getting shot by stolen firearm not secured properly by irrresponsibls gun owners

By your logic I shouldn’t have to wear my seat belt because my vehicle is my property and i didn’t give you permission to smash into me..The only victims are the ones being shot by stolen firearms? Really? The person who was robbed is now not a victim? In what warped reality is this believable? How very liberal of you to decide this.

And yes, if you wanna risk YOUR life not wearing a seatbelt who is anyone to tell you not to. Same with the helmet law which is now gone. You wanna chance it then by all means do so. Doesn't affect me in the slightest.

We should outlaw drinking, flying, swimming, eating and anything else that can cause you to die or be injured right?

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[TylerV76]

You guys should probably start protesting the gun stores that have been robbed in the past year. What have there been in this area? 4? If they only had a safe right? Criminals gotta eat, who are we to judge them for how they do so.

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[Iamero]

You guys should probably start protesting the gun stores that have been robbed in the past year. What have there been in this area? 4? If they only had a safe right? Criminals gotta eat, who are we to judge them for how they do so.

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Sure, let me go make my sign... "Please keep your doors unlocked before you leave, that way you don't have to pay for a new window too. The criminals are going to steal your guns anyways, so don't even try to protect them."

Also, why do you keep assuming that we feel bad for the criminals? I don't think anyone has condoned what they are doing but that's the assumption you keep making.

[DP425]

The only victims are the ones being shot by stolen firearms? Really? The person who was robbed is now not a victim? In what warped reality is this believable? How very liberal of you to decide this.

And yes, if you wanna risk YOUR life not wearing a seatbelt who is anyone to tell you not to. Same with the helmet law which is now gone. You wanna chance it then by all means do so. Doesn't affect me in the slightest.

We should outlaw drinking, flying, swimming, eating and anything else that can cause you to die or be injured right?

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Not actually true... in the slightest. Actually, you're likely directly impacted more-so by seatbelt and helmet usage than firearms theft. If you own a car or motorcycle, you're taking the financial hit for those people who took the risk, and came up on the bad side of luck... but not so far on the bad side to be dead.

[TylerV76]

Sure, let me go make my sign... "Please keep your doors unlocked before you leave, that way you don't have to pay for a new window too. The criminals are going to steal your guns anyways, so don't even try to protect them."

Also, why do you keep assuming that we feel bad for the criminals? I don't think anyone has condoned what they are doing but that's the assumption you keep making.Because you are blaming the victim, oh I'm sorry they aren't victims anymore, for being robbed. Stay the hell out if people's homes and there's no issue. "But but we live in a bad world". We have for decades but why do the victims, oops sorry I keep forgetting they aren't victims now, get blamed for expecting their property to be their property.

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[TylerV76]

Not actually true... in the slightest. Actually, you're likely directly impacted more-so by seatbelt and helmet usage than firearms theft. If you own a car or motorcycle, you're taking the financial hit for those people who took the risk, and came up on the bad side of luck... but not so far on the bad side to be dead.Was speaking on his personal well being. Financially we are screwed whether he wears one or not. My current insurance rate thanks to 2 different instances of idiots totalling my cars while parked show that. One happened to not be wearing a seatbelt because he was reaching on the floor board to get his sandwich. The other lady was wearing one. My rates doubled both times.

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[TylerV76]

This is easily remedied by just banning guns. Why should law abiding citizens have access to something that a criminal can steal and commit a crime with.

There are some seriously strange conversations on here lately. I gotta wonder if some people are hitting the egg nog a bit too much this season.

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[Iamero]

Because you are blaming the victim, oh I'm sorry they aren't victims anymore, for being robbed. Stay the hell out if people's homes and there's no issue. "But but we live in a bad world". We have for decades but why do the victims, oops sorry I keep forgetting they aren't victims now, get blamed for expecting their property to be their property.

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Nobody said they aren’t a victim. Again, that was an assumption because we didn’t treat everyone in this example with the same level of sympathy.

Let’s consider a thief is walking down the sidewalk and looking into parked cars for valuables to steal. There are four cars parked there.

Car 1: the doors are locked, the windows are up, and the valuables are not laying out in the open.
Car 2: the doors are locked, the windows are up, but they left their wallet or laptop sitting on the seat.
Car 3: the doors are unlocked or the windows are down, and there are valuables on the seat or the floor.
Car 4: the doors are locked, the windows are up, and there are no valuables left in the car.

Who is most likely to become a victim in this situation? Probably car 2 and 3. While car 1 is still at risk of having valuables stolen, it is less likely than car 2 or 3. Car 4, like car 1, is less likely to become a victim. But if they do become a victim of a broken window, at least they were not a victim of stolen property as well.

In any case, the criminal is doing something wrong by going into that persons car, there is no denying that and I’m not arguing that point. What my argument is is that just because something might happen does not mean that we should make it easier on the criminal or make ourselves more vulnerable to that happening.

[TylerV76]

Nobody said they aren’t a victim.





Bps has decided only people shot by stolen guns are victims. You can read that just a few posts up


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[TylerV76]

Nobody said they aren’t a victim. Again, that was an assumption because we didn’t treat everyone in this example with the same level of sympathy.

Let’s consider a thief is walking down the sidewalk and looking into parked cars for valuables to steal. There are four cars parked there.

Car 1: the doors are locked, the windows are up, and the valuables are not laying out in the open.
Car 2: the doors are locked, the windows are up, but they left their wallet or laptop sitting on the seat.
Car 3: the doors are unlocked or the windows are down, and there are valuables on the seat or the floor.
Car 4: the doors are locked, the windows are up, and there are no valuables left in the car.

Who is most likely to become a victim in this situation? Probably car 2 and 3. While car 1 is still at risk of having valuables stolen, it is less likely than car 2 or 3. Car 4, like car 1, is less likely to become a victim. But if they do become a victim of a broken window, at least they were not a victim of stolen property as well.

In any case, the criminal is doing something wrong by going into that persons car, there is no denying that and I’m not arguing that point. What my argument is is that just because something might happen does not mean that we should make it easier on the criminal or make ourselves more vulnerable to that happening.I don't leave anything in my car. Never mentioned cars at all in fact. My house however is my safe.

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[Iamero]

I suppose less inclusive words should be used when discussing my own view so that way I don’t argue others points they are trying to make, haha.

And that was just an example, not a fact about what you do and don’t do personally. Houses work in a similar fashion and I can make an example with houses and guns instead of cars and laptops if that is easier to understand the point I am making.

[TylerV76]

I suppose less inclusive words should be used when discussing my own view so that way I don’t argue others points they are trying to make, haha.

And that was just an example, not a fact about what you do and don’t do personally. Houses work in a similar fashion and I can make an example with houses and guns instead of cars and laptops if that is easier to understand the point I am making.Again, why should the law abiding citizens be blamed for criminal activities? You are blaming the victim in every example you make.

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[Iamero]

As far as I know the law doesn’t blame them. I see where you think I am blaming them, but my intention is more to stress the point that if I can make it less desirable or more difficult for them to steal my firearm, I will. Ideally I would like it if no one ever broke into my house, but if they are going to then I would like to have measures in place to prevent them from leaving with any of my firearms.

[TylerV76]

As far as I know the law doesn’t blame them. I see where you think I am blaming them, but my intention is more to stress the point that if I can make it less desirable or more difficult for them to steal my firearm, I will. Ideally I would like it if no one ever broke into my house, but if they are going to then I would like to have measures in place to prevent them from leaving with any of my firearms.You are clearly saying that if someone doesn't lock they're stuff up in their home which is also locked up, that they have contributed to firearms being stolen. Maybe the safe should be locked in a safe inside another safe? Your home is your safe. It's where you keep your valuables. People should not have to lock that stuff up in their own home to feel some sense of responsibility. It's not on public property, it's not laying in the open, it's not visible to anyone else's eyes when a gun is left inside your home.

If you got kids or what have you fine but at what point did we stop expecting our homes to be our castles? When did we just accept that our domain is theirs for the taking? What about folks who can't afford a $2000 safe? Are they irresponsible for wanting to protect themselves? I know plenty of folks who can't afford an extra $300 for a safe and own a $200 lcp because they have the right to protect themselves. Should I tell them all that because some crack head may break in they don't deserve the gun until life affords them a safe good enough to stop a criminal?

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[Iamero]

Nope, but if you have the ability to protect your firearms better, why wouldn’t you do so? I get that some people can’t afford a $2000 safe, or even a $500 safe. Before I bought a more expensive safe, I had mine in a stack on in a closet. You could literally pick the key lock with a screwdriver.

That’s why I was just asking how these guns get stolen. If someone does everything they can to protect it, but it still gets stolen, then that sucks. If some low life’s break into a gun store and steal guns, that hurts the community just as much (just happened over here last month). I just want to know what happened in each situation of a stolen gun on here so myself and others hopefully keep it from happening to us as well.

If someone had stolen my guns, I would have been on your side saying that I did what I could to protect them and I had every right to own them. But knowing how easy it was to get into my safe unsettled me, so I bought a more expensive one when I could, and then put the security system in place. Was I required to by law? No. Did I feel like I was aiding criminals by having a cheap safe, no. But I had that feeling in my head that if one of my guns was stolen and used in a crime, I would feel some responsibility for that, even if I did what I could at the time to protect them.

What would have made me feel worse is if someone asked me if I had them locked up and I said, “No. I left them in the closet and on my nightstand because I didn’t think someone would break into my house.”

There’s a balance in doing what you can to protect your stuff, but not continually worrying about it either. When I go on vacation I don’t sit there and think about someone breaking in and stealing everything, but I do take the extra measure before I go to make sure everything is locked up tight and as secure as it can be. The same goes for when I leave the house for just an evening.

[TylerV76]

Nope, but if you have the ability to protect your firearms better, why wouldn’t you do so? I get that some people can’t afford a $2000 safe, or even a $500 safe. Before I bought a more expensive safe, I had mine in a stack on in a closet. You could literally pick the key lock with a screwdriver.

That’s why I was just asking how these guns get stolen. If someone does everything they can to protect it, but it still gets stolen, then that sucks. If some low life’s break into a gun store and steal guns, that hurts the community just as much (just happened over here last month). I just want to know what happened in each situation of a stolen gun on here so myself and others hopefully keep it from happening to us as well.

If someone had stolen my guns, I would have been on your side saying that I did what I could to protect them and I had every right to own them. But knowing how easy it was to get into my safe unsettled me, so I bought a more expensive one when I could, and then put the security system in place. Was I required to by law? No. Did I feel like I was aiding criminals by having a cheap safe, no. But I had that feeling in my head that if one of my guns was stolen and used in a crime, I would feel some responsibility for that, even if I did what I could at the time to protect them.

What would have made me feel worse is if someone asked me if I had them locked up and I said, “No. I left them in the closet and on my nightstand because I didn’t think someone would break into my house.”

There’s a balance in doing what you can to protect your stuff, but not continually worrying about it either. When I go on vacation I don’t sit there and think about someone breaking in and stealing everything, but I do take the extra measure before I go to make sure everything is locked up tight and as secure as it can be. The same goes for when I leave the house for just an evening.Sorry but if someone breaks into my house and steals my guns I'm not gonna feel guilty. I don't feel guilty about doing things that are legal. If it makes you feel better then go for it but I would be very reluctant to call people who don't feel the same as you irresponsible.

There's other people out there who think just by you owning a gun that you are irresponsible.

Maybe if we were allowed to protect our property like in other states, criminals may not be so quick to break in.

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[Iamero]

Yea you got that right, that would definitely be awesome. I guess I have some frustration into laws that protect the lives of criminals but punish us for protecting our property. That’s another rabbit hole that we could go down for sure, but I would imagine we would be on the same page for that one.

And yea, that’s the mindset on some people for sure. Heck, Read the comments on any gun related story posted on Facebook and you’ll find those people that criticize every gun owner. I usually try to stay away from there because there isn’t much to be gained from being a keyboard warrior on Facebook.

[TylerV76]

Yea you got that right, that would definitely be awesome. I guess I have some frustration into laws that protect the lives of criminals but punish us for protecting our property. That’s another rabbit hole that we could go down for sure, but I would imagine we would be on the same page for that one.

And yea, that’s the mindset on some people for sure. Heck, Read the comments on any gun related story posted on Facebook and you’ll find those people that criticize every gun owner. I usually try to stay away from there because there isn’t much to be gained from being a keyboard warrior on Facebook.I'll be honest, I get what youre saying and "most" of my guns are stored in an area you're gonna need some time to get into. I also have a camera security system running on battery backups that alert me the second you walk into my home. I take pretty much all the precautions you do and then some.

Where it gets dicey is when people criticize folks for obeying the laws and being the victim of a crime. Some folks simply can't afford a safe worth buying but they deserve to protect themselves.

My car was stolen about 10 years ago and used in multiple hit and runs and eventually demolishing the side of a business. It wasn't locked because I simply forgot to when dealing with the kids and groceries. I would have never thought to blame myself for the damage caused.

I've also been robbed in my home in Tucson at gunpoint. I didn't own guns then but now that I do, I always have one available wherever I am in my house. Some guns are stashed, some are locked. I feel more comfortable knowing I didn't forget to take one out of the safe that night. I know that it's right where I will look if I need to scramble.

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[BPS]

The only victims are the ones being shot by stolen firearms? Really? The person who was robbed is now not a victim?...

Material items getting stolen hardly compare to one being shot.

Your loved ones will still be at dinner tonight they will not be making funeral arrangements, so it's apparent who the real victims are.

You've made it clear that you could care less who gets shot because of your lack of judgement and that says it all right there.

[TylerV76]

Material items getting stolen hardly compare to one being shot.

Your loved ones will still be at dinner tonight they will not be making funeral arrangements, so it's apparent who the real victims are.

You've made it clear that you could care less who gets shot because of your lack of judgement and that says it all right there.

"Couldn't care less"

With that mindset nobody should own a gun. Again, what I do with my guns is legal, what a criminal does to get it is not. Therefore, I would be a victim of a burglary and why I can't be prosecuted if someone else steals my gun and commits a crime.

I guess anyone living in poverty doesn't deserve to have a gun. Anyone on disability that can't afford a safe should just turn them in right? Would that make you feel safer?

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[oldmann1967]

Edit: Whew, this one got off to an interesting start! Didn't think this one would have resorted to this level of intensity. Well, sit back and enjoy the show or share your opinion, that's what freedom of speech is for anyways (and so easily enhanced by the internet!).

I always wondered that with all these stolen guns. I get if they bust your window in your car when you’re out and about, but if you keep a gun in your car overnight and they bust the window and steal it, I don’t feel too bad for you.

But the ones stolen from homes, are these just laying around or in like 15lb stack on safes? My safe alone is 650lbs so unless they are torching that sucker open, they aren’t walking away with it.

Get a couple dogs, and that’s just another layer of protection haha.

I more posted this not to criticize others, but to keep myself and my firearms protected. I want to know if I’m not thinking of something that makes them more vulnerable than anticiped.

I get what happens with mail carrier and porch theft, that just pisses me off.

Give me 60 seconds and I'll be in your 650lb safe with only hand tools. Just sayin'

https://youtu.be/B8ViUdd-2LM

[Iamero]

Didn’t say it was inpenetrable, just said you weren’t walking off with it lol.

[BPS]

Give me 60 seconds and I'll be in your 650lb safe with only hand tools. Just sayin'..
Those guys are not getting into the safes shown at the start of the video in 60 seconds..

[TylerV76]

Those guys are not getting into the safes shown at the start of the video in 60 seconds..93 seconds. I'm sure that extra 33 seconds will definitely deter them lol.

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[DrScaryGuy]

Give me 60 seconds and I'll be in your 650lb safe with only hand tools. Just sayin'

https://youtu.be/B8ViUdd-2LM

In this case you're dealing with 2 guys who go in knowing what to look for and what to do to get it. They have experience and work as a coordinated team to get into the safe. Around here, we're probably far FAR more likely to deal with some kid or a meth head who uses one of your landscaping rocks to smash a window, goes straight to your medicine cabinet, and digs through your dresser for jewelry.
This is not to refute the claim that people who know what they're doing can get into something fast and seemingly easily. Just that it is impossible and very expensive to plan for every kind of attack. The best you can do is protect against what you are most likely to encounter, try to protect against some of what you might encounter, and hope things work out for you.
Related story: when I worked for the red cross, we needed something that was locked in a big cabinet and the keys to it were in a small locked cabinet in the manager's office, and nobody knew where those manager keys were. But we needed the stuff RIGHT THEN or else we would have been breaking federal rules and would have lost a lot of money.
They were surprised, grateful, and PISSED (in that order) when I picked the big cabinet, handed them what they needed, then picked the small cabinet to get the keys to re-lock the big cabinet, then used the spare small cabinet keys that were IN the small cabinet to lock it back up and handed them to the boss. That was a "fun" talk to have with management afterwards...
"you can pick the locks to the restricted stuff?"
"yes, I suppose I always could have."
"but you can get into them whenever you want!"
"yes, I suppose I always can. but I don't."
"we can't have you doing that!"
"then don't lose the keys anymore and I won't have to anymore. Would you rather have to throw out a few hundred blood donations and answer to the FDA, or have me fix your problems and then go do my own job?"

I did not make a lot of friends there.

[Armed Fitter]

Edit: Whew, this one got off to an interesting start! Didn't think this one would have resorted to this level of intensity. Well, sit back and enjoy the show or share your opinion, that's what freedom of speech is for anyways (and so easily enhanced by the internet!).

I always wondered that with all these stolen guns. I get if they bust your window in your car when you’re out and about, but if you keep a gun in your car overnight and they bust the window and steal it, I don’t feel too bad for you.

But the ones stolen from homes, are these just laying around or in like 15lb stack on safes? My safe alone is 650lbs so unless they are torching that sucker open, they aren’t walking away with it.

Get a couple dogs, and that’s just another layer of protection haha.

I more posted this not to criticize others, but to keep myself and my firearms protected. I want to know if I’m not thinking of something that makes them more vulnerable than anticiped.

I get what happens with mail carrier and porch theft, that just pisses me off.

With a Metabo, I can be i your safe, cleaned out, and be gone in less than 5 minutes. Don’t ever think a safe is a save all

[JDG]

Edit: Whew, this one got off to an interesting start! Didn't think this one would have resorted to this level of intensity. Well, sit back and enjoy the show or share your opinion, that's what freedom of speech is for anyways (and so easily enhanced by the internet!).

I always wondered that with all these stolen guns. I get if they bust your window in your car when you’re out and about, but if you keep a gun in your car overnight and they bust the window and steal it, I don’t feel too bad for you.

But the ones stolen from homes, are these just laying around or in like 15lb stack on safes? My safe alone is 650lbs so unless they are torching that sucker open, they aren’t walking away with it.

Get a couple dogs, and that’s just another layer of protection haha.

I more posted this not to criticize others, but to keep myself and my firearms protected. I want to know if I’m not thinking of something that makes them more vulnerable than anticiped.

I get what happens with mail carrier and porch theft, that just pisses me off.

To answer your question, and by looking at the evidence, one of my brothers guns was stolen after he shot himself. I found a holster, box, manual, spare magazine, while cleaning out his house. The holster was on his bed(where he shot himself) so I'm pretty sure the gun was close by. Hey, thanks for asking....
I should add his next door neighbor was the one who broke into his house and found him, is a drug dealer, and is the one I think took the pistol.

[BPS]

...what I do with my guns is legal...

And therein lies the problem just because you think it's legal does NOT make you responsible, your far from it along with anyone else who thinks along those lines.

People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns.

Part of gun ownership is being responsible for them and not having the attitude of so what if my guns get stolen and they kill an innocent who cares, not my problem. When in reality it is.

If you can afford guns and ammo you can afford what it takes to secure them properly.

The days of stashing them in a closet or between the mattresses or behind the door are long gone and have been for years now.

Responsible gun owners do their damnest to keep them out of bad hands and the irresponsible ones could care less will never understand it and make every owner look bad.

[BPS]

..Don’t ever think a safe is a save all

It's not, that's why other layers are just as important.

[Leader]

And therein lies the problem just because you think it's legal does NOT make you responsible, your far from it along with anyone else who thinks along those lines.

People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns.

Part of gun ownership is being responsible for them and not having the attitude of so what if my guns get stolen and they kill an innocent who cares, not my problem. When in reality it is.

If you can afford guns and ammo you can afford what it takes to secure them properly.

The days of stashing them in a closet or between the mattresses or behind the door are long gone and have been for years now.

Responsible gun owners do their damnest to keep them out of bad hands and the irresponsible ones could care less will never understand it and make every owner look bad.

But it's not my fault, it's the fault of the miner that mined the copper that made up the copper jacket on the bullet or the logger that cut the tree that the grips on my pistol were made from or, or,.......
They are sooooo irresponsible and don't even acknowledge the deaths they are responsible for.

[TylerV76]

And therein lies the problem just because you think it's legal does NOT make you responsible, your far from it along with anyone else who thinks along those lines.

People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns.

Part of gun ownership is being responsible for them and not having the attitude of so what if my guns get stolen and they kill an innocent who cares, not my problem. When in reality it is.

If you can afford guns and ammo you can afford what it takes to secure them properly.

The days of stashing them in a closet or between the mattresses or behind the door are long gone and have been for years now.

Responsible gun owners do their damnest to keep them out of bad hands and the irresponsible ones could care less will never understand it and make every owner look bad.

"Couldn't care less".

Well thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I'll be sure to take your incredibly arrogant opinions and make some changes to my irresponsible choices.




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[Danco411]

With a Metabo, I can be i your safe, cleaned out, and be gone in less than 5 minutes. Don’t ever think a safe is a save all

Meanwhile I will be watching and recording on my surveillance video and the cops will be on the way. You may likely get away before they get there (probably not) but I will have you on video so chances are good that you will get caught. Then I will call my insurance agent and have everything replaced. Also note once you get caught and identified I'll find you one day because you will have had to kill my dogs to get to the safe.

[TylerV76]

Meanwhile I will be watching and recording on my surveillance video and the cops will be on the way. You may likely get away before they get there (probably not) but I will have you on video so chances are good that you will get caught. Then I will call my insurance agent and have everything replaced. Also note once you get caught and identified I'll find you one day because you will have had to kill my dogs to get to the safe.

This is why I dont think a safe is important at all.

Dogs, cameras, alarms and battery backups far outweigh the importance of a safe. Without any of those, someone will have all the time in the world to destroy your safe and walk away.

A safe is nothing more than a box to admire and have a false sense of security. If you have kids or lots of guests then by all means use one. If you're using it to "keep the bad guys from killing thousands of people with my guns" then you just wasted alot of money when you should have invested it in methods that will actually stop them.

[Musta Demoni]

Your 650lb "safe", is frankly... not worth much. My cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel would prob have me in that sucker, in 10-15min tops, using one battery. Unless you have effectively blocked access to the top, back, and both sides... and bolted it down as well. Don't make too many assumptions.

I've heard this argument before, but IMO safes are nothing more than a deterrent for the 99.9% of would-be criminals entering a home. Most want to get in/out quickly and grab whatever's easy... laptops, gaming consoles, maybe some small jewelry, etc. I have yet to hear an actual report of someone who was burglarized by angle-grinder/pry-bar wielding meth heads with the skill or will to access even a $500-range safe.

Is it possible? Yes. Has it ever happened? Yes. Would I ever consider upgrading my safe beyond that price/security range? No, never.

[Musta Demoni]

In this case you're dealing with 2 guys who go in knowing what to look for and what to do to get it. They have experience and work as a coordinated team to get into the safe. Around here, we're probably far FAR more likely to deal with some kid or a meth head who uses one of your landscaping rocks to smash a window, goes straight to your medicine cabinet, and digs through your dresser for jewelry.
This is not to refute the claim that people who know what they're doing can get into something fast and seemingly easily. Just that it is impossible and very expensive to plan for every kind of attack. The best you can do is protect against what you are most likely to encounter, try to protect against some of what you might encounter, and hope things work out for you.

This might sound like common sense, but YouTube has told me that anyone with a toothpick and 2 paperclips can penetrate any safe in mere seconds.

Seriously though... thanks for adding some reality to this thread. :thup:

[Armed Fitter]

Meanwhile I will be watching and recording on my surveillance video and the cops will be on the way. You may likely get away before they get there (probably not) but I will have you on video so chances are good that you will get caught. Then I will call my insurance agent and have everything replaced. Also note once you get caught and identified I'll find you one day because you will have had to kill my dogs to get to the safe.
We’re talking theoretically here,
AND

we’re talking Fenton, so I could probably make a sandwich from your fridge , peruse the pantry for some chips (hopefully krunchers), by then the APB will finally come across the radio.:poke:
Also I used to serve paper for a living and repo, I’ve occupied even the toughest pooches with Oscar Myers bologna:smile:
P.s I have a few LE brethren in Fenton

All in good fun!

[LongAction]

I like how some of you roll, going to change some of my habits. I’ll probably post my safe for sale, quit wearing my seatbelt, saving money for retirement, and really wish I wasn’t Married so I could have lots of unprotected sex. It’s time to loosen up a bit.

[Leader]

I like how some of you roll, going to change some of my habits. I’ll probably post my safe for sale, quit wearing my seatbelt, saving money for retirement, and really wish I wasn’t Married so I could have lots of unprotected sex. It’s time to loosen up a bit.

You can stay married & still have unprotected sex.

[Sledhead]

I stopped by Home Depot last night and picked up a couple fridge boxes.

I grabbed my sharpie and wrote CANNON on one and Browning on the other.

Finally I can sleep well at night.

[Danco411]

we’re talking Fenton, so I could probably make a sandwich from your fridge , peruse the pantry for some chips (hopefully krunchers), by then the APB will finally come across the radio.
Also I used to serve paper for a living and repo, I’ve occupied even the toughest pooches with Oscar Myers bologna
P.s I have a few LE brethren in Fenton

All in good fun!

I would only hope a robber would be like you. Yes my dogs would roll over for a belly rub if you gave them a hot dog. LOL They are loud but not killers. All my guns..**** everything I own can be replaced but not my dogs.

[mittenman]

The whole premise of this thread is flawed. If someone without young untrained children wants to keep firearms out in their home that's their right and business. I grew up knowing many family's with a .22 in a corner or on on a rack for pest control as well as a barn gun. I consider that to be quintessential American. I think some of you are Detroit suburbs types and it shows.

If somebody breaks into my house steals my weapons and uses them in another crime the courts say that the criminal is the burgural to which I completely agree.
As far as the original premise, with HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of guns in this great country if someone wants one they'll get it. If the government required a safe in every house tomorrow imeaditly thereafter burglary's with a cheap Harbor Freight or pawnshop angle grinder would become common if not the norm. Home invasions using intimidation to force a resident to open a safe would go up, simply talking a girlfriend into making the buy and organised straw buys would increase, or stealing your cash and buying a gun on Armslist ect; ect. If somebody wants a gun they are going to get it and it won't be very difficult for them.

[Leader]

Throughout most of my life, people displayed their guns proudly in nice cases in the living room of their house.
I grew up with Dads .22 hanging on the wall & deer rifle in the front closet.
We weren't "irresponsible", we were just normal.

Of course I survived riding in the back of a pick up & in cars with no seat belt & even drinking out of a hose.

[LongAction]

As much as I would like to hang mk hkmr762 over my fireplace, just don’t think it’s a good idea?

[DrScaryGuy]

Of course I survived riding in the back of a pick up & in cars with no seat belt & even drinking out of a hose.
Alright, things are starting to make sense...
for the record, I totally knew what dogs felt like, sliding around the bare metal of a truck bed while the driver (dad) makes sharp turns and fast stops, while laughing like a mad man and yelling back "what's the matter, boy? can't hang on too good?".

[smitdawg]

As far as theft, I only blame the criminal. But from the perspective of an officer who has taken many reports on stolen firearms, do yourself and LE a favor and keep a detailed list of your firearms AND their serial numbers. That is if you ever want to have a chance at seeing your firearms again. Otherwise they cannot be entered into LEIN and may not be able to be identified.

[matt11]

Many years ago I lived in an apartment, someone broke in and stole the guns I had ( had the bolt for that ole 06 for several years after that) I did not feel guilty, I felt violated and robbed. If someone broke into my home today and stole cast, went bought heroin and OD'ed I would not feel at fault.
I do have a safe, I would guess most could get into in less than 5 minutes, paid around 500. it makes me feel safe when my kids have friends over or my grand kids are over nad I'm not around.

[BPS]

...I did not feel guilty..
The ones without a conscious typically don't.

I'd feel like crap if contributed to someone getting killed over my lack of responsibility.

[matt11]

The ones without a conscious typically don't.

I'd feel like crap if contributed to someone getting killed over my lack of responsibility.

With this thought process I would think it would be best if you didn't own a gun, there in not a safe that cant be broken into, or if you did find one, someone could rob you and force you to open the safe so they could get your guns ( you should not have any that are not locked up at anytime incase it happens to get into the wrong hands) This would be the only way to eliminate the risk.

I am now thinking I should get rid of my cars, they could be stolen and someone could get killed in an accident.

Why are we blaming the victim?

[pips]

I think it is wise to have a gun handy for use if needed in your home. I don't think anyone denies that. My problem is leaving a bunch of guns, or all of your guns out. Yes safes works if bolted down. Why would you not invest in a good safe to keep your valuables in? Cash, stocks, baseball cards, jewelry should all be locked away. The guys saying how easy a safe is to get into have been watching the internet too much. Most thefts occur during the day. Most criminals are in the home less than 10 mins. They rarely go after safes unless they can carry it out. Most criminals will tip your safe over if they find it just to destroy the contents. A safe is a great investment. Please forward any media reports of safes getting cracked. Their are some to be sure, but they are a miniscule part of the total home invasions. Most safe jobs are inside jobs where they know someone has a hoard of cash or other valuables and they have time to work on the safe, Very Very rare.

[Leader]

I think it is wise to have a gun handy for use if needed in your home. I don't think anyone denies that. My problem is leaving a bunch of guns, or all of your guns out. Yes safes works if bolted down. Why would you not invest in a good safe to keep your valuables in? Cash, stocks, baseball cards, jewelry should all be locked away. The guys saying how easy a safe is to get into have been watching the internet too much. Most thefts occur during the day. Most criminals are in the home less than 10 mins. They rarely go after safes unless they can carry it out. Most criminals will tip your safe over if they find it just to destroy the contents. A safe is a great investment. Please forward any media reports of safes getting cracked. Their are some to be sure, but they are a miniscule part of the total home invasions. Most safe jobs are inside jobs where they know someone has a hoard of cash or other valuables and they have time to work on the safe, Very Very rare.

Why would you live someplace where you had to lock everything up?

[BPS]

With this thought process I would think it would be best if you didn't own a gun, there in not a safe that cant be broken into, or if you did find one, someone could rob you and force you to open the safe so they could get your guns ( you should not have any that are not locked up at anytime incase it happens to get into the wrong hands) This would be the only way to eliminate the risk.

I am now thinking I should get rid of my cars, they could be stolen and someone could get killed in an accident.

Why are we blaming the victim?

The ONLY victims are the ones getting shot by stolen firearms.

Next time your out leave the keys in your vehicle with it running and when it gets stolen tell the cop it wasn't your fault because afterall the thief had no right to take it, the cops will SURELY side with you

Make sure your insurance agent knows that too because it helps with the claim...

And while your at it leave your guns on the front seat too and see how that turns out when a thief snags them

I'm sure the cop will give you that attaboy and shake your hand and even invite you to the next city council meeting for an awards ceremony cause you done good and did nothing wrong.....

[matt11]

The ONLY victims are the ones getting shot by stolen firearms. with this logic, no one should be allowed to own guns.

Next time your out leave the keys in your vehicle with it running and when it gets stolen tell the cop it wasn't your fault because afterall the thief had no right to take it, the cops will SURELY side with you My cars do not have keys, so they can only go a limited distance without the fob that I keep in my pocket, and by your logic, if that fob was taken from me I would not be a victim of a crime.

Make sure your insurance agent knows that too because it helps with the claim... I do not have an insurance agent, I have never had aproblem with a claim, but my cars a insured through the leasing company .

And while your at it leave your guns on the front seat too and see how that turns out when a thief snags them this is just stupid.

I'm sure the cop will give you that attaboy and shake your hand and even invite you to the next city council meeting for an awards ceremony cause you done good and did nothing wrong.....

I was about to agree with some of your comments, but this post digressed beyond that.

[DP425]

I think it is wise to have a gun handy for use if needed in your home. I don't think anyone denies that. My problem is leaving a bunch of guns, or all of your guns out. Yes safes works if bolted down. Why would you not invest in a good safe to keep your valuables in? Cash, stocks, baseball cards, jewelry should all be locked away. The guys saying how easy a safe is to get into have been watching the internet too much. Most thefts occur during the day. Most criminals are in the home less than 10 mins. They rarely go after safes unless they can carry it out. Most criminals will tip your safe over if they find it just to destroy the contents. A safe is a great investment. Please forward any media reports of safes getting cracked. Their are some to be sure, but they are a miniscule part of the total home invasions. Most safe jobs are inside jobs where they know someone has a hoard of cash or other valuables and they have time to work on the safe, Very Very rare.

So why a safe then? Why not a very well hidden compartment? Why not a hardened closet with a steal door, deadbolt, and reinforced frame and hinges? If we're talking 10 minutes and no effort to get into hardened areas, why would you spend the money?

And you cannot honestly believe storing money in a $500 RSC "gun safe" is a good idea. You know the flash point of paper is like 450 degrees right? So you get nothing more than the "security" factor from it... which you could easily get by installing a fake cold-air return, or stuffing it in the crock pot that is never used anymore in the back of the cabinet.

I mean seriously- most arguments in support of "gun safes" are also reasons not to bother with them, or to go in a different direction.

[tyler79durdan]

Can someone please explain how this thread has anything to with a stolen firearm to be on the lookout for? Looks to me like a rant, troll, or opinion... IM(O). Poor mediation! This threat should be moved elsewhere otherwise Im gonna post a pistol for sale in the MGO announcements sub. ULTIMATUM FACE SLAP

[Musta Demoni]

Can someone please explain how this thread has anything to with a stolen firearm to be on the lookout for? Looks to me like a rant, troll, or opinion... IM(O). Poor mediation! This threat should be moved elsewhere otherwise Im gonna post a pistol for sale in the MGO announcements sub. ULTIMATUM FACE SLAP

Totally agree!


To all MGO'ers!!!... NOW HEAR THIS!!!!

A THREAD WAS OPENED IN A SUB-FORUM THAT WASN'T 100% CORRECT FOR IT'S TOPIC CONTENT. THIS IS A FIRST HERE, AND A SHOCK TO MANY, I KNOW. THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS AGGREGIOUS ERROR, PLEASE PM ME FOR INFORMATION ON THE GROUP THAT WILL BE FORMING TO COUNSEL THOSE WHO ARE DEALING WITH THIS TRAUMA.

[tenthumbs]

Totally agree!


To all MGO'ers!!!... NOW HEAR THIS!!!!

A THREAD WAS OPENED IN A SUB-FORUM THAT WASN'T 100% CORRECT FOR IT'S TOPIC CONTENT. THIS IS A FIRST HERE, AND A SHOCK TO MANY, I KNOW. THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS AGGREGIOUS ERROR, PLEASE PM ME FOR INFORMATION ON THE GROUP THAT WILL BE FORMING TO COUNSEL THOSE WHO ARE DEALING WITH THIS TRAUMA.

Definitely needs a focus group! :wink:

63138

[Slossar1004]

Perfect storm. The guns are in the right place at the right time.

I don’t think it’s unusual for someone to leave a gun outside of the safe in the home as long as there are no minors present. Leaving it in the car unsecured? Whether it’s right or wrong, I don’t know. But I personally think it’s a bad idea.

[Leader]

Perfect storm. The guns are in the right place at the right time.

I don’t think it’s unusual for someone to leave a gun outside of the safe in the home as long as there are no minors present. Leaving it in the car unsecured? Whether it’s right or wrong, I don’t know. But I personally think it’s a bad idea.

We passed a LAW a long time ago against taking things that don't belong to you.
Works as good as the one against killing people.

[wizzi01]

The only victims are the ones getting shot by stolen firearm not secured properly by irrresponsibls gun owners

By your logic I shouldn’t have to wear my seat belt because my vehicle is my property and i didn’t give you permission to smash into me..

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you are so out of touch with reality it isn't even funny. I laughed anyways.

[technicldisastr]

family

[Meanie]

There are many victims here who witness the killing of English grammar and theft of proper punctuation. :hide:

[mikeb32]

I would only hope a robber would be like you. Yes my dogs would roll over for a belly rub if you gave them a hot dog. LOL They are loud but not killers. All my guns..**** everything I own can be replaced but not my dogs.

" For The Win!!!"

[DeSchaine]

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2018/04/gun_safe_with_multiple_firearm.html

Well, that's how. They just walk out with the safe.

[50 BMG]

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2018/04/gun_safe_with_multiple_firearm.html

Well, that's how. They just walk out with the safe.

(from the article) "A large Sentinel gun safe, holding multiple firearms, ammunition and personal items, was stolen. Archery equipment and tools were also taken.
A black Hummer H3 was seen driving in the area around the time of the break-in."

The thieves were in a Hummer H3? That will be an easy crime to solve; just wait for the H3 to break down... LoL...

Late addition to this thread:
1). Yes, firearms should never be left unattended or unlocked WHEN AVOIDABLE. Any responsible gun owner should be aware of this. Houses are not impenetrable, so leaving a lot of firearms out where they can be easily found IS fairly irresponsible IMHO. Somebody here mentioned a well hidden yet accessible firearm. OK, while those two constraints are not always inclusive, at least an effort is made to hide what remains out of the safe to be a self defense/go to gun in the residence in case of assault. But really, the gun I carry every day is THAT gun for me when I am home. And, since it is with me and on me all the time, when I leave to buy a loaf of bread or a 6 of beer, possible theft at home is never an issue for it.
Sorry, but my handgun is forced to be left in the car when I have to go into a gun free zone, so if it gets stolen from that kind of a location, that would be one of those "unavoidable" thefts since I carry every day, every where it is legally possible. No, a little lock box bolted to the floor will not prevent a determined thief either. If anything, that lockbox (if visible) may telegraph to them that you actually have a gun in the car in the first place.
2). A "gun safe" has to be the biggest/best/thickest metal/well locked container that one can afford. Think of it this way too, it you own $20,000-$30,000 worth of guns, how does having a safe which only costs $400 make any sense? It should also be heavy enough that taking the whole safe from the house is pretty much impossible. IT MUST (minimally) be bolted to the floor and access to all sides of it should be limited by its location in the house if possible. If you can't limit 3 sides access, then 2 sides is the next best choice (like the corner of a basement, etc...). BUT, if even the biggest/baddest/heaviest/dynamite-proof/fire rated safe is left unbolted to the floor, and it can be knocked over on its side or back, there is NO WAY to ensure it will not be compromised if the thief has enough time to do so. The most common way a safe is "cut into" is with a simple axe and, it's usually YOUR AXE (taken from your garage or tool shed) that is used to open it up. But, a thief who knows you have a gun safe and is there specifically for it, will likely bring his own tools (namely large steel spuds to be used as giant pry bars) to open the front door of the safe, which is surprisingly easy and QUICK to do IF they can get the safe tipped over onto its back/side. (See point #3)
People have mentioned security systems, and those are great items to help eliminate the "time" that a thief will need to compromise ANY safe. even if they don't go directly to the cop-shop, a cruiser will usually be at your house in enough time once the alarm has been tripped that a decent quality safe has not been compromised.
3). Preventative measure; KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about how many guns you own and IF you even own a safe! Besides close family and "maybe" trusted friends, NOBODY needs to know the extent of your arsenal. Most people are very protective about how much money they make or what is the balance of their savings accounts. Well, a gun collection IS a savings account on many different levels; monetarily, life saving and Liberty saving. This information should be as closely guarded as the former usually is. If this privacy gets compromised, you are opening yourself up for nefarious activity, no matter how many guns you own. Loose lips sink ships...

[dirtmcgirt76239]

Edit: Whew, this one got off to an interesting start! Didn't think this one would have resorted to this level of intensity. Well, sit back and enjoy the show or share your opinion, that's what freedom of speech is for anyways (and so easily enhanced by the internet!).

I always wondered that with all these stolen guns. I get if they bust your window in your car when you’re out and about, but if you keep a gun in your car overnight and they bust the window and steal it, I don’t feel too bad for you.

But the ones stolen from homes, are these just laying around or in like 15lb stack on safes? My safe alone is 650lbs so unless they are torching that sucker open, they aren’t walking away with it.

Get a couple dogs, and that’s just another layer of protection haha.

I more posted this not to criticize others, but to keep myself and my firearms protected. I want to know if I’m not thinking of something that makes them more vulnerable than anticiped.

I get what happens with mail carrier and porch theft, that just pisses me off.

your 650 lb safe can be busted open with a 6 ft pry bar pretty easy, a torch, or grinder even easier.

They are not walking away with the safe.

Never mind picking a lock is very easy.

You can pick the lock, and if you have slings or their bring a hockey duffle back, or two guys, they can clean out 10 guns each person easy and be out of your house in 5 minutes.

[kryl]

You can stay married & still have unprotected sex.

LMAO, best one-liner yet and no purple font needed!

[costanza]

(from the article) "A large Sentinel gun safe, holding multiple firearms, ammunition and personal items, was stolen. Archery equipment and tools were also taken.
A black Hummer H3 was seen driving in the area around the time of the break-in."

The thieves were in a Hummer H3? That will be an easy crime to solve; just wait for the H3 to break down... LoL...

Late addition to this thread:
1). Yes, firearms should never be left unattended or unlocked WHEN AVOIDABLE. Any responsible gun owner should be aware of this. Houses are not impenetrable, so leaving a lot of firearms out where they can be easily found IS fairly irresponsible IMHO. Somebody here mentioned a well hidden yet accessible firearm. OK, while those two constraints are not always inclusive, at least an effort is made to hide what remains out of the safe to be a self defense/go to gun in the residence in case of assault. But really, the gun I carry every day is THAT gun for me when I am home. And, since it is with me and on me all the time, when I leave to buy a loaf of bread or a 6 of beer, possible theft at home is never an issue for it.
Sorry, but my handgun is forced to be left in the car when I have to go into a gun free zone, so if it gets stolen from that kind of a location, that would be one of those "unavoidable" thefts since I carry every day, every where it is legally possible. No, a little lock box bolted to the floor will not prevent a determined thief either. If anything, that lockbox (if visible) may telegraph to them that you actually have a gun in the car in the first place.
2). A "gun safe" has to be the biggest/best/thickest metal/well locked container that one can afford. Think of it this way too, it you own $20,000-$30,000 worth of guns, how does having a safe which only costs $400 make any sense? It should also be heavy enough that taking the whole safe from the house is pretty much impossible. IT MUST (minimally) be bolted to the floor and access to all sides of it should be limited by its location in the house if possible. If you can't limit 3 sides access, then 2 sides is the next best choice (like the corner of a basement, etc...). BUT, if even the biggest/baddest/heaviest/dynamite-proof/fire rated safe is left unbolted to the floor, and it can be knocked over on its side or back, there is NO WAY to ensure it will not be compromised if the thief has enough time to do so. The most common way a safe is "cut into" is with a simple axe and, it's usually YOUR AXE (taken from your garage or tool shed) that is used to open it up. But, a thief who knows you have a gun safe and is there specifically for it, will likely bring his own tools (namely large steel spuds to be used as giant pry bars) to open the front door of the safe, which is surprisingly easy and QUICK to do IF they can get the safe tipped over onto its back/side. (See point #3)
People have mentioned security systems, and those are great items to help eliminate the "time" that a thief will need to compromise ANY safe. even if they don't go directly to the cop-shop, a cruiser will usually be at your house in enough time once the alarm has been tripped that a decent quality safe has not been compromised.
3). Preventative measure; KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about how many guns you own and IF you even own a safe! Besides close family and "maybe" trusted friends, NOBODY needs to know the extent of your arsenal. Most people are very protective about how much money they make or what is the balance of their savings accounts. Well, a gun collection IS a savings account on many different levels; monetarily, life saving and Liberty saving. This information should be as closely guarded as the former usually is. If this privacy gets compromised, you are opening yourself up for nefarious activity, no matter how many guns you own. Loose lips sink ships...
So, are you saying that having my 'not in a vault gun' stolen from inside my deadbolt locked/steel door home is MY fault, but your gun stolen from inside your car in a gun free zone is NOT your fault? Hmmm...

[50 BMG]

So, are you saying that having my 'not in a vault gun' stolen from inside my deadbolt locked/steel door home is MY fault, but your gun stolen from inside your car in a gun free zone is NOT your fault? Hmmm...

No, not necessarily...
The gun that you leave unlocked for use in the house or wherever you live would be the same thing as the gun I am forced to leave in my car when I have to go into a ridiculous gun free zone. That is a similar "unavoidable" circumstance because I do think you SHOULD have a gun available for use in the home.
Should that gun be locked up when you leave the house if it is not your daily carry gun (like mine in house gun is)? Probably...
The point I was trying to make was this; having one defensive gun stolen from a home,car, etc... is not like losing a dozen or more guns that are left unlocked in a home when you leave and they are also not hidden very well (the back of the closet or under a bed is not a hiding place).

I know guys who do not even own a gun safe and they own dozens of firearms! But, where they keep their guns hidden would not be found without 1). the thief knowing exactly where they are (and they are in multiple locations throughout the house) Or, 2). they used a wrecking bar and a sledge hammer to just start tearing down everything in the house. Almost 100% of thieves are not going to demolish walls/ceilings/furniture of a house looking for money, guns, or anything valuable... They may flip stuff over and dump drawers, but anything else takes too much time for most residential locations.
Now, if you live in the country and 100's of yards or even MILES away from anyone, and you leave town for a period of time and the criminal somehow knows that fact, they may spend a week in your house dismantling everything. At the point, even a "good" gun safe will probably be compromised...

Do you leave big wads of money, valuable jewelry, gold bars/coins, etc... in an underwear drawer when you leave the house, especially for extended vacations?

[RayMich]

If someone was to do a home invasion, there's no chance in heck I'm gonna make it to the safe in time to get one out. You may be thinking a young/healthy 20 year old running to the safe, what about Grandma/Grandpa who have bad knees and it takes 2-3 minutes to get up out of a chair. Your giving the criminals too much undeserved credit/sympathy here. Guns are bad, cars are bad in the wrong hands, knives are bad...........

if you keep one handgun on your person at all times, you don't need to run and unlock your safe to get a gun if there is a home invasion in progress while you are home.

Unless the gun is with you at all times, there is always a chance that the home invasion might occur while you are not sitting/standing next to where you've stashed your guns. And if they find and grab your gun before you do, you are screwed.

Criminals are way more resourceful than many people give them credit. If you experience a home invasion while you are not at home and your guns are not locked up, they will find and steal every gun you've stashed around the house.

Yes, a gun safe is not an impenetrable Fort Knox and given enough time they can be broken into. But they do slow down the criminal's ability to do a grab 'n run.

A monitored burglar alarm also help to reduce your chances of being the victim of a home invasion, as long as you use it.

[costanza]

No, not necessarily...
The gun that you leave unlocked for use in the house or wherever you live would be the same thing as the gun I am forced to leave in my car when I have to go into a ridiculous gun free zone. That is a similar "unavoidable" circumstance because I do think you SHOULD have a gun available for use in the home.
Should that gun be locked up when you leave the house if it is not your daily carry gun (like mine in house gun is)? Probably...
The point I was trying to make was this; having one defensive gun stolen from a home,car, etc... is not like losing a dozen or more guns that are left unlocked in a home when you leave and they are also not hidden very well (the back of the closet or under a bed is not a hiding place).

I know guys who do not even own a gun safe and they own dozens of firearms! But, where they keep their guns hidden would not be found without 1). the thief knowing exactly where they are (and they are in multiple locations throughout the house) Or, 2). they used a wrecking bar and a sledge hammer to just start tearing down everything in the house. Almost 100% of thieves are not going to demolish walls/ceilings/furniture of a house looking for money, guns, or anything valuable... They may flip stuff over and dump drawers, but anything else takes too much time for most residential locations.
Now, if you live in the country and 100's of yards or even MILES away from anyone, and you leave town for a period of time and the criminal somehow knows that fact, they may spend a week in your house dismantling everything. At the point, even a "good" gun safe will probably be compromised...

Do you leave big wads of money, valuable jewelry, gold bars/coins, etc... in an underwear drawer when you leave the house, especially for extended vacations?I see your point. No I don't, but I was stupid once and did learn the hard way. My home break-in happened in 2011 and I thought the locked house was deterrent enough. Not all guns were in the vault for whatever reason, mostly just being lazy. The amount of destruction just to get in was crazy. I'm now alarmed, with a bigger, tougher vault, and EVERYTHING now goes in the vault if I'm gone overnight or longer, guns, watches, checkbook, laptop, and all important papers and records. I don't keep my guns out of the vault anyway, except my carry gun. My home defense shotgun was great, until it was stolen while I wasn't there to use it...

[Kpkimmel83]

Again, why should I have to secure MY property in MY home that I have given no access to anyone but myself?

Stay out of my home and there wouldn't be any stolen property.

God I hate victim blaming. "That damn girl shoulda never wore that dress and she wouldn't have been raped". Such a stupid argument.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

you confuse what is 'right' with what is reality. Sorry life isn't fair with they 'why should i have to..".

[TylerV76]

you confuse what is 'right' with what is reality. Sorry life isn't fair with they 'why should i have to..".

Reality is, breaking into someones home is an illegal act. Im not confused at all by that.

[costanza]

if you keep one handgun on your person at all times, you don't need to run and unlock your safe to get a gun if there is a home invasion in progress while you are home.

Unless the gun is with you at all times, there is always a chance that the home invasion might occur while you are not sitting/standing next to where you've stashed your guns. And if they find and grab your gun before you do, you are screwed.

Criminals are way more resourceful than many people give them credit. If you experience a home invasion while you are not at home and your guns are not locked up, they will find and steal every gun you've stashed around the house.

Yes, a gun safe is not an impenetrable Fort Knox and given enough time they can be broken into. But they do slow down the criminal's ability to do a grab 'n run.

A monitored burglar alarm also help to reduce your chances of being the victim of a home invasion, as long as you use it.Well said RayMich:
A pistol on your nightstand in your bedroom does little good when you are watching TV in the living room and someone kicks in your door. A home invasion is a pretty brazen attack with very bad intent. Anything other than a carried or stashed pistol nearby will be of little help, as they know they have the drop on you. A burglary while you are gone is more of a crime of opportunity, and much less violent. When my house was robbed, I wish I was home, with my home defense shotgun that was stored behind my bedroom door. Sadly, that gun is gone now, as are four others that I did not lock up immediately upon returning from a trip up north. Most were safely in my vault, thankfully. The punks did find all the guns that were not locked up.

[Swissk31]

And therein lies the problem just because you think it's legal does NOT make you responsible, your far from it along with anyone else who thinks along those lines.

People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns.

Part of gun ownership is being responsible for them and not having the attitude of so what if my guns get stolen and they kill an innocent who cares, not my problem. When in reality it is.

If you can afford guns and ammo you can afford what it takes to secure them properly.

The days of stashing them in a closet or between the mattresses or behind the door are long gone and have been for years now.

Responsible gun owners do their damnest to keep them out of bad hands and the irresponsible ones could care less will never understand it and make every owner look bad.


Congrats your my first post on this forum.

U made plenty of other silly comments I could reply to directly such as the only victims in a home invasion where guns are stolen are those shot by the bad guy with the stolen gun but this one really stood out to me.


I wont disagree with u that most of our firearms should be kept in a safe or similar construct. HOWEVER with your logic u keep laying out u are also blaming those who are robbed that have said safe. What really is annoying though is u state that TylerV76

is a bad gun owner with bad judgment simply for stating the OBVIOUS. Home invasion and subsequent murder with stolen firearm is ILLEGAL. Yet somehow u blame the gun owner who was robbed, not the law breaker who is breaking societal norm and the contract we all sign as citizens of the united states when we all follow the same laws.

The worst part though is then u blame people like TylerV76 for causing as u say "People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns". He clearly states he is single and if there kids the guns would be put away. Also from your other comments its clear u think people like TylerV76 are the reason lawmakers make other gun laws that are illegal.

I argue that gun owners like u that blame the rest of us for things outside of our control is the reason these laws are in place. Obviously if kids or roommates live with u then the guns will all be put away. However as an American we have the right to own firearms and also have the right to store those firearms as we see fit. In the end the Criminal is always the initiator and your victim blaming does nothing but cut a rift amongst gun owners that anti gunners use against us.

If a elderly woman owns a hi point is she going to but a 200 fingerprint safe? Does she need 2 large dogs? Cameras that cost her months worth of SS? U turned this thread into a sideshow and over a year later I enjoy calling u out.


Good day.

[dirtmcgirt76239]

And therein lies the problem just because you think it's legal does NOT make you responsible, your far from it along with anyone else who thinks along those lines.

People like yourself are the reason our lawmakers enacted laws holding irresponsible gun owning parents responsible when their kids get a hold of guns.

Part of gun ownership is being responsible for them and not having the attitude of so what if my guns get stolen and they kill an innocent who cares, not my problem. When in reality it is.

If you can afford guns and ammo you can afford what it takes to secure them properly.

The days of stashing them in a closet or between the mattresses or behind the door are long gone and have been for years now.

Responsible gun owners do their damnest to keep them out of bad hands and the irresponsible ones could care less will never understand it and make every owner look bad.

lawmakers making anti gun laws, want to take all your guns away and melt them down and push them into a volcano and make a speciticle of it.

Its alll slow creep on our rights.

Look at how they deal with crime, with repeat offenders, with murderers, the big cities do not care.

With respect to what you do, they care more about a working stiff making a small error, than a criminal with 50-100 offenses.

Its all long term racial, and politcal.

Nothing you can do, will make them like you.

Nothing you can do is good enough.

Where we are at right now, you can do everything by the book, and if the guy is black and you do not let him kick your ass with the gun kept in your pocket, if it goes down on camera, your rights and the law, are NOT the law anymore.

Its all public opinion.

Your life is basically over.

You are suggesting safes matter.

LOL

No one person can mak everyone that owns guns look bad.

Do you do that do car drivers, can one driver make everyone look bad?

One boater?

One teacher ?


How about the above guy with so many chances, do you think that same public and dem leaders this one guy makes all guys not deserve a second chance?


Nope. None of these ideas apply to anything else.

Its a special set of rules.

[westcliffe01]

Lamero, tell me: Have you ever been burgled ? Ever been mugged ? Ever been beat up "for fun" by a bunch of pranksters ? Do you have any enemies ? Has anyone ever slashed any of your car tires ? Has anyone broken the window of your car to steal a factory car stereo that requires a special tool to remove ? Has one of your cars ever been stolen by a gang that steals cars to order ?

I'm just trying to get a feeling for what kind of a life you have lived and how safe and invincible you feel ? Because I discern a little lack of practical experience in your writing....

[coltpython22]

1000000% it’s our homes and I don’t care if someone is breaking in to feed their family. A dieing family member. Money to pay there rent. There is no reason to steel!!!!!! It’s my home I work and I work hard to pay for things like food. So I agree our govt gives enough free money away to people who use it to buy a new ps5 or benz and not food. My family comes first over toys. Over the better car , those are luxuries we work hard for. I’m sorry if you can rob a house you can work. I’m not going to bed without a gun near my bedside. I have a safe and a room that has a reinforced door. As well as adt and Comcast cameras. That’s sad we need all that to protect our homes. I have zero feelings for animals who rob people. It’s the same as the “protest” that the apple store had 1.7 million in iPhones and iPads stolen from from looters. What’s that have to do with “protesting”. It’s sad we have to worry about our homes , our cars , our mail. Why would I even give a 💩 about someone’s situation. Especially now everyone who wants a job could have one. Micky d is almost 17$ a hour. I’m sorry for misspells, it just hit a nerve . Some people lost items that are irreplaceable. And I guarantee some skell junky who steels a original colt python has no idea what’s it worth. And going to sell it for food yeah I’m sure probably traded for a few bags of junk. Stealing is wrong , white. Black , green yellow no one deserves to be robbed. And there is no reason for anyone to steal.idc if your hungry you don’t rob people to cut corners in life. Work work work

[coltpython22]

I could care less about a theif, there is no reason to steel. Don’t put the blame on gun owners. The blame is the dirtbag doing it. We all have families and have needs we work. If you can rob you can work.
They rob because they useless lazy skells of society who want what we worked hard for without the working part.
And I don’t care your family is hungry, We pay taxes for all these programs to give free housing. Free food. But it’s not used on what they need it’s used on a new benz, and they steal. It’s like these people who make statements like well he left his window open a little. Ok that’s not a pass to rob. Unreal feeling bad for anyone that has the low life gutter garbage of a person to rob our home. Yea I had a big dog up until last week he passed. And cameras. It’s that same thing people wanting things and not earning them. It’s the the sad story of making criminals angels once they die, or get sentenced to a good jolt.
But why don’t people who feel bad for because they can’t buy food but they have a Escalade. People get all this free money and programs we pay for. Have arrest records 3 miles long . It should be like trump wanted you get 2 felonies for drugs, theft etc. you loose your welfare , or your section 8. Housing. After “Covid” jobs are everywhere. My son is 20 and goes to uofm, and on his way to Nyu for a semester. He is a good kid and I promised him school comes first don’t worry about working if it’s going to cause any issues. Smart kid just took a job (i won’t say ware) but a type of job that they need help so bad he got a 800$ signing bonus and he told the owner he was going to have to leave before the year. And that was the deal
To get the 800$ the owner still gave it to him.
He is loving it making good money. He was able to get 2 of his friends jobs. I’m proud of him because he didn’t need to but he he did. So jobs is no longer a excuse. Some guy who protects his family goes to jail for life. But the jerkoff who breaks in steals your gun and shoots a old lady gets 7 years. Tired of all this PC let’s all get along. Going to blame the home owners for owning nice things . So maybe I should leave the windows and keys in my raptor so someone who needs a car can take mine

[Moreproservices]

Sounds like an inside job waiting to happen.

[Moreproservices]

[QUOTE=BPS;2989795]my cameras will notify me when your on my property let alone in my house let alone to where my safe is located and my police station is less than a mile away so between the cameras dog and safe and distance from LE i’ve cut that 10-15 minute window down to around 2 minutes and they will not be in my safe in that time frame.
I get notified the second my cameras pick up motion and If need be LE is

[jack1943]

It should read 'you're neither', not your neither. (sorry, devil makes me do stuff like this)

[Meanie]

It should read 'you're neither', not your neither. (sorry, devil makes me do stuff like this)
I hope he doesn't make you do it often because you could be on the internet 24/7 making corrections to people who haven't a clue about contractions and possession. Even ****phones confuse the hell out of many. Good luck.