Let's Talk Gun Safe Ratings

[GreaseMonkeySRT]

After researching what I hope to be the last safe I ever buy, just about every gun "safe" out there is pretty much just for fire protection. A UL-RSC certification only requires a safe to resist entry from hand tools for 5 minutes. Pretty pathetic.

This has caused me to look into safes that have at least a TL-15 rating. So far for price and size, this safe is winning: https://www.brownsafe.com/hd-safes/hd7256.html

Even still, the double door model with the options I'd like exceeds $8K.

That being said, with the combination of a home alarm system, living in a low crime area, having the safe bolted down in a walk-out basement, what are your opinions?

[castrotikon]

After researching what I hope to be the last safe I ever buy, just about every gun "safe" out there is pretty much just for fire protection. A UL-RSC certification only requires a safe to resist entry from hand tools for 5 minutes. Pretty pathetic.

This has caused me to look into safes that have at least a TL-15 rating. So far for price and size, this safe is winning: https://www.brownsafe.com/hd-safes/hd7256.html

Even still, the double door model with the options I'd like exceeds $8K.

That being said, with the combination of a home alarm system, living in a low crime area, having the safe bolted down in a walk-out basement, what are your opinions?

I agonized over this for months when I was looking at purchasing my first safe. I generally found the safe crowd split into 2 general opinions:

1. Any safe is better than no safe and a smash and grab thug is not going to waste his time trying to get into your safe
-or-
2. Unless you're buying a safe with quarter inch thick steel that weighs 5000 pounds, you're just wasting your money (I'm exaggerating of course but the amount of times I see a comment like this is kind of shocking)

Personally, as you indicated, I think having a good (loud) alarm system is going to be more beneficial than anything else, i.e. If I had $3k to spend on a safe, I would rather put half of that towards the safe and the other half towards a good alarm. Everything I've read seems to indicate that you could have the best safe in the world, but given enough time and the right tools, a determined intruder is going to get in eventually. May take them a few hours, but it'll happen. Now, if they have a siren blaring with the police likely on the way, they're probably less likely to waste time trying to break into your safe and more likely to grab what they can easily carry out and run.

Additionally, what I think is even more important than anything you mentioned is don't tell anyone about it. Don't tell all your friends or coworkers about how you've got 30 guns in a giant safe sitting in your basement, don't leave it out in the open for everyone to see, if you have someone over to work in your basement then cover it up...don't give someone a reason to try in the first place. All the best security in the world won't matter if someone comes in with a gun to your family's head demanding you open the safe.

I ended up getting what I believe is a "good enough" safe and a monitored alarm system that alerts me and the police when it goes off.

[Musta Demoni]

1. Any safe is better than no safe and a smash and grab thug is not going to waste his time trying to get into your safe


This.


Lots of people want to tell you that you need 12" thick titanium, and/or they can get into your safe with an angle grinder in 5 minutes... or there's a guy on YouTube who can....

Bottom line is that the likelihood of someone breaking into your home with the skill or will to get into any average $500 range safe is about the same as you getting struck by lightning. The need for $5,000 safes is a farce and is nothing more than internet extreme'ism.

Get a $500 safe and use that in conjuntion with some other measures, mostly common sense, and you'll never have your guns stolen. Be discreet, have home security/cameras/alarm, maybe a dog or two (or 4 in my case).

[mitommy]

From what I’ve Read, the most common ways of breaking into a safe is to tip in down and / or pry on the door. I made sure mine is bolted to the floor ( basement). And it is against a wall near a pole. There is no way to get ant leverage beyond 3, to pry with. I’m sure that given enough time and using the tools I have in the house / garage, someone could get in. But I Doubt most thieves will stay that long and work that hard.

[mittenman]

It's probably all in how you look at it, but given how easily nearly all RSC's are to break into with power tools Vs. the self proclaimed fire ratings but I see any safe with sheetrock for an insulator as more of a theft deterrent than I do fire protection. In a house burn down I'd expect expect extreme damage to guns and optics. On the other hand I've personally never heard of a thief bringing power tools to a robbery. I think you can get reasonable theft protection with a good safe bolted down for less money than you'll find a safe that will protect against a severe house fire.
To me a decent to good safe and an insurance policy is the best way to go.

[Blue XJ]

What do you need a safe for? Wasn't that you I saw on the lake the other day and lost all of your firearms when you broke through the ice?

[Flash-hider]

There is this fellow out of Indiana. http://www.johnsonsafes.net The guys on Indiana Gun Owners give him high marks. I have seen his safes at the Indy Gun Show and felt they are above a lot of other brands.

[guylaizure]

Nice looking safes.May have to take a trip to Indiana

[dstallguy]

Tagged for Indiana gun safe future viewing

[GreaseMonkeySRT]

Thanks for the replies. Thinking of doing something just a step up from an RSC, like a decent Fort Knox. Going up to a TL-15 is probably a bit overkill and too expensive, but having a safe that the outer wall can be cut through in a couple minutes by sawzall is no good either.

[Viking]

The important takeaways on safes is, any safe is typically better than no safe, a hidden safe is several times better than most well made safes, and do not be fooled by marketing tomfoolery.

For example UL listings for safes are typically only applicable to the electrical components of digital lock mechanisms, or plugs for safe driers/lighting etc. (Buttons on electronic safes are only warrantied for typically two years as the contacts wear out and your safe becomes inaccessible to you the owner) Safe manufacturers usually give their own very ambiguous ratings for fire protection that are typically unrealistic, and they do their own testing for fire ratings because they cannot pass (nor will they pay for) UL ratings for fire protection, and for many of the major manufacturers found that they could sell a door with thinner steel rolled around what is essentially concrete board that goes under your tiles, make the door thicker with concrete, call the whole thing composite and charge more for it than actually building a decent secure door.

I am not trying to say the whole go big or go home buy a 9934938297$ safe, I just don't want you to be completely misled by marketing, the problem is you cannot just ask the kid behind the counter or in another aisle stocking shelves, because honestly, no one in the store knows whats inside a product, and manufactures are purposefully misleading to get you to buy their most expensive big vault super expensive safe.

What is more likely to happen than getting robbed is have a fire, I'd personally rate having fire prevention/protection well above someone finding a safe and entering it to take its contents, aside from that, neighbors and friends with loose lips sink ships? or houses, or vacations, but you get what I mean, neighbors that know your patterns may not necessarily have any ill will towards you and mention in the workplace overheard by another that you're on vacation for 5 days. (hell all they really need to know is no one will be home for a day) it is more important for you to have operational security than a safe that meets a california rating, for 5minutes against handtools.

That all being said http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/how-to-protect-your-guns/ has some interesting things to read, has broken a lot of safes to show pictures of how they are made, and has reviews and blogs of different ways to protect a safe against fire, being found, and forced entry. If nothing else its a very interesting read to learn about how safes are made and sometimes how well they are or are not made, and also how to find alternatives to the traditional gun safe.

[cmr19xx]

After researching what I hope to be the last safe I ever buy, just about every gun "safe" out there is pretty much just for fire protection. A UL-RSC certification only requires a safe to resist entry from hand tools for 5 minutes. Pretty pathetic.

This has caused me to look into safes that have at least a TL-15 rating. So far for price and size, this safe is winning: https://www.brownsafe.com/hd-safes/hd7256.html

Even still, the double door model with the options I'd like exceeds $8K.

That being said, with the combination of a home alarm system, living in a low crime area, having the safe bolted down in a walk-out basement, what are your opinions?

You could build a bare bones safe room in your basement for a lot less than $8K.

[DeSchaine]

Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

https://www.stack-on.com/product/total-defense-24-gun-safe/

[Slossar1004]

Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

https://www.stack-on.com/product/total-defense-24-gun-safe/

I don’t have an opinion on this brand or model, but I think many of the mass produced safes are manufactured by the same companies and branded. Similar to televisions that may be branded Sony but have parts manufactured by Samsung etc.

[Musta Demoni]

Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

https://www.stack-on.com/product/total-defense-24-gun-safe/


I think this kind of safe is all most people will ever need. If in the exponentially unlikely event that you're broken into by a sawzall wielding intruder, you've made other mistakes.


Maybe someone could post some statistics that show how often actual break-ins occur where safes are compromised by intruders, maybe that could put this discussion in perspective for the readers of this thread.

[GreaseMonkeySRT]

I think this kind of safe is all most people will ever need. If in the exponentially unlikely event that you're broken into by a sawzall wielding intruder, you've made other mistakes.


Maybe someone could post some statistics that show how often actual break-ins occur where safes are compromised by intruders, maybe that could put this discussion in perspective for the readers of this thread.

Good idea. There's a website called crime map that if they have access to local PD reports, shows crime in the area. I think this will vary differently by area, obviously. The other thing too is I see people posting pictures of their safe, the inside of their safe, etc. on social media. So dumb. I share a picture here and there of my guns, but not all that I own or where they are stored, etc.

I do want to get something above a typical RSC, but not to the level of a TL-15. With a home alarm system, good placement of the safe in the home, the safe being bolted down, and accessibility to it limited should be all that's needed.

[DogStar]

The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.

[john.41]

A large part of a safes price, depends on the fire rating.
Anyone who is handy, can build a closet around the safe(s) and cover it with double 5/8ths drywall, even the door and ceiling.
Also, in basements, putting them on a base of concrete blocks, may keep them high enough to prevent water damage from putting the fire out.
If you want to go all the way, a fire sprinkler head, plumbed to your water supply (with an inline shut off) can be mounted over the closet. The shut off is for when you accidentally break that little tube on the bottom of the sprinkler head.
All of this can be done much cheaper the a top shelf fire protected safe.

[costanza]

The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.
I was not aware he broke into the safe. I thought all this time that he had access, and I've been very critical of his mom since then, for not securing the gun. Oops. She at least made an effort to secure the gun.

[dirtmcgirt76239]

The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.

I have one there is not much too it, its a keep hands off lox box with a key on it, more than it is a "safe". A crow bar I imagne could get you in 1 minute flat.