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View Full Version : Hunters Orange changes coming for crossbow and blinds



Pistol Teacher
05-24-2009, 10:53 PM
The bill for usage of orange has not passed yet. Old rules still apply.If you hunt with a crossbow you will need to wear orange. H.B. 4897 will more than likely pass.

New rule also coming Deer Blinds will need orange on them.
Under the bill, a person could not hunt deer from a blind with a firearm unless 144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides.
A "blind" would mean "an enclosure used to help conceal or disguise the occupant for the purposes of taking game."


Keep a eye on this Link to H.B. 4897
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(lcj00j55hc4ysv45z404jz45))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2009-HB-4897 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(lcj00j55hc4ysv45z404jz45))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2009-HB-4897)

Maranatha
05-24-2009, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE=Pistol Teacher]

New rule also coming Deer Blinds will need orange on them. [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]
Under the bill, a person could not hunt deer from a blind with a firearm unless 144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides.
A "blind" would mean "an enclosure used to help conceal or disguise the occupant for the purposes of taking game."

this will suck

OpenSights
05-24-2009, 11:12 PM
You know, I always wondered why they don't make bilnds in realtree orange or something... in state land that would be nice... I've come across some real idiots out there.

Groo
05-24-2009, 11:44 PM
You know, I always wondered why they don't make bilnds in realtree orange or something... in state land that would be nice... I've come across some real idiots out there.

why would you put up a blind on state land. anyone could walk up and use it.

BBstacker
05-25-2009, 12:14 AM
well 144sq. in.=/4-6x6 sq,s. with the economy, this season will be -interesting.walk in past1/4 mi. from any 2-track and it,s way less crowded.

Hockey9019
05-25-2009, 04:34 AM
why would you put up a blind on state land. anyone could walk up and use it.


Pop up blind.

I agree with the above. I wish sometimes mine had it

327poc
05-25-2009, 08:25 AM
I have always put an orange hat on my ground blind when I am using it just because. It lets the others I hunt with know I am in the blind so they don't come over and disturb my hunting and want to use it. It's also a small piece of mind.

who dat
05-25-2009, 08:29 AM
well 144sq. in.=/4-6x6 sq,s. with the economy, this season will be -interesting.walk in past1/4 mi. from any 2-track and it,s way less crowded.
Under the bill, a person could not hunt deer from a blind with a firearm unless 144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides.

144 si=12x12 if you consider "all sides". Or a three sided triangle on the top of the blind.

Pistol Teacher
05-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Under the bill, a person could not hunt deer from a blind with a firearm unless 144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides.

144 si=12x12 if you consider "all sides". Or a three sided triangle on the top of the blind.


I take it that you would need 12x12 on each side. This is more than you think.

It states "144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides."

Rolex Dr.
05-25-2009, 09:15 AM
i have always used orange on any blind that covered me


and i have never had a deer spot me unless i move

and after i had a guy look in my blind thru his scope (he siad it was to see if i was in there) i now hang a orange vest out the window when im in it

who dat
05-25-2009, 09:18 AM
I take it that you would need 12x12 on each side. This is more than you think.

It states "144 square inches of hunter orange were visible on the exterior surface of the blind from all sides."
Yeah, I think that's what I meant. You would need to see 144 si on every side from any direction. That's 4 12x12s for a 4 sided blind or 144 si visible from all sides if mounted on the top...which could mean a three sided 12x12.

joe_robi
05-25-2009, 09:40 AM
i have used a orange safety cap for years.
http://www.ameristep.com/images/1803_cap_lg.jpg


______________
"KILL IT AND GRILL IT"
:deadhorse: :stirpot:

Pistol Teacher
05-25-2009, 10:46 AM
sweet, How much do the run.


i have used a orange safety cap for years.



______________
"KILL IT AND GRILL IT"
:deadhorse: :stirpot:

appliancebrad
05-25-2009, 10:48 AM
This requirement is needed and welcomed. Pam and I have been teaching about the problem with no visible hunter orange once you enter a blind to our Hunter Education students for years. It's nuts that we require Hunter Orange but then you conceal it when you step into a blind. This Bill was the direct result of a fatal shooting last year where the victim was in a pop up with no orange visible.

I've been working with the sponsor on this and a pennant with with the required 12x12 will be acceptable if it can be seen from all sides. I can see someone coming out with one like that for bicyclists that you can put up when you are in your stand.

Pistol Teacher
05-25-2009, 10:56 AM
I've been working with the sponsor on this and a pennant with with the required 12x12 will be acceptable if it can be seen from all sides. I can see someone coming out with one like that for bicyclists that you can put up when you are in your stand.

My concern after safety is if it looks out of place or un-natural looking. The roof top is cool. I would look at a penent if it looked like a branch. Just a thought.

joe_robi
05-25-2009, 02:43 PM
sweet, How much do the run.

?
mom sewd it up.
hommade!!!

OpenSights
05-25-2009, 02:53 PM
?
mom sewd it up.
hommade!!!

how much would Mom want for labor/ material for one... once I get the pop-up I want I can give dimensions.... rough est... your mom may have a new job if she's wiling...

BTW I still don't have enough ammo for all those stripper clips you sold me! Damn ammo horders!

joe_robi
05-25-2009, 03:03 PM
BTW I still don't have enough ammo for all those stripper clips you sold me! Damn ammo horders!

thats why i sold them. lol

i'll have to talk to my mom about the cap and get back with ya

OpenSights
05-25-2009, 06:05 PM
thats why i sold them. lol

i'll have to talk to my mom about the cap and get back with ya

might even find some guys at deer camp and other friends that'd be interested.

Shooter McNasty
05-25-2009, 07:05 PM
Cant I just get some orange spray paint and goto town?? Heck I might just swipe some paint form work and sell it as "Michigan Legal" blind paint for $10 a can

Hunting on state land is pretty crazy nowadaze.

Done Deal
05-25-2009, 07:58 PM
IMO, that reg is a bit over the top. As it stands, an hunter only has to wear an orange hat but now....the blind has to light up the country side to be legal. I mean, if somebody is in a ******* tower blind, why in the world should they have to have it all oranged up? And, for those that sit with their back to a tree, it looks like they would have to do the same silly thing. My word....

In my opinion, if somebody wants to decorate their blind with orange, it should be their call.

What I would like to see is orange on all the joggers and bicyclists that mess up my hunting by using the rail/trail system during hunting season.

OpenSights
05-26-2009, 04:51 AM
[QUOTE=Done Deal]

In my opinion, if somebody wants to decorate their blind with orange, it should be their call.

QUOTE]


If I had my own property to hunt, I would not want to HAVE to wear orange... it shouldn't be law forcing us to do so, but in Dansville state land it's a good idea.

Done Deal
05-26-2009, 06:37 AM
I totally agree on public ground but NOT on private ground.

Still, if ya put a couple of sticks up against a tree and then lean up against it, it sounds like you would need to put up the orange on the other side of the tree.

I am all for safety and I agree that hunting in enclosed blinds sort of defeats the purpose of wearing orange but this regulation seems more than a little intrusive on private ground.

sullyxlh
05-27-2009, 12:04 PM
I totally agree on public ground but NOT on private ground.

Still, if ya put a couple of sticks up against a tree and then lean up against it, it sounds like you would need to put up the orange on the other side of the tree.

I am all for safety and I agree that hunting in enclosed blinds sort of defeats the purpose of wearing orange but this regulation seems more than a little intrusive on private ground. I believe this is only for pop up blinds and not blinds made from dead falls and such..

On another note, the way I'm reading it is
That this only applies to firearm hunters during FA deer season and not to bowhunters during FA deer season??
So to be straight,
As long as I have my orange on I can still bowhunt in a blind with no orange on the blind during FA deer season correct?
Thx

CnA
05-27-2009, 12:11 PM
Hope my blind won't have to look like this,

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x166/CnAPhot/Gladwin/treehousewithorange.jpg

OpenSights
05-27-2009, 04:37 PM
Hope my blind won't have to look like this,

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x166/CnAPhot/Gladwin/treehousewithorange.jpg

the newer looking addition is that an out house? nice blind! bet it wasn't easy to build!

Done Deal
05-27-2009, 06:09 PM
I believe this is only for pop up blinds and not blinds made from dead falls and such..



Did you read the definition of a blind as it pertains to this proposed legislation?

I can see folks getting all tripped up over this....

CnA
05-27-2009, 07:19 PM
the newer looking addition is that an out house? nice blind! bet it wasn't easy to build!
It's a game feeder that holds 250 lbs of corn....but since last year it may as well be an outhouse.

It was actually very easy to build. I Just lag bolted on the three main 2x6 supports on the trees, put a 3/4" base on top, then made a template of the base out of newspaper. I built the rest in my shop at home from the template, then hoisted up the finished panels and screwed them together on the base on my next trip up north (Gladwin). The base is 18' high.

Snowman2
05-29-2009, 09:34 PM
When I checked Pistol Tearchers link, the house version that has passed seems to be missing the portion on blinds. It appears that this only covers some clean-up involving hunter orange ( camo,flame...) crossbow and falcons. Any new info??

Pistol Teacher
05-29-2009, 09:47 PM
When I checked Pistol Tearchers link, the house version that has passed seems to be missing the portion on blinds. It appears that this only covers some clean-up involving hunter orange ( camo,flame...) crossbow and falcons. Any new info??

You are correct. See what the senete does

tenthumbs
06-01-2009, 09:13 PM
IMO, that reg is a bit over the top. As it stands, an hunter only has to wear an orange hat but now....the blind has to light up the country side to be legal. I mean, if somebody is in a ******* tower blind, why in the world should they have to have it all oranged up? And, for those that sit with their back to a tree, it looks like they would have to do the same silly thing. My word....

In my opinion, if somebody wants to decorate their blind with orange, it should be their call.

What I would like to see is orange on all the joggers and bicyclists that mess up my hunting by using the rail/trail system during hunting season.


That is Incorrect. I left my Instructor book in our Class Room or I could be More Specific.

Basically, you must Have a min.[don't want to cite without the # in front of me] Sq. inch visible from all sides. A hat alone doesn't meet the Requirement.

Done Deal
06-02-2009, 06:13 AM
That is Incorrect. I left my Instructor book in our Class Room or I could be More Specific.

Basically, you must Have a min.[don't want to cite without the # in front of me] Sq. inch visible from all sides. A hat alone doesn't meet the Requirement.


I have to disagree with you. An orange hat can alone can and does meet the requirement.

Snowman2
06-02-2009, 06:55 AM
Page 12 of the Michigan Hunting and Trapping Guide say's
"...you wear a hat,cap,vest,jacket or rain gear of highly visible orange"
No mention of square inches.

Done Deal
06-02-2009, 07:03 AM
If memory serves, waaaaay back when the hunter orange law came out, it had to be something like 12 square inches or some such thing. That would mean a big hat and didn't necessary allow camo orange hats.

That requirement was eliminated years ago.

Snowman2
06-02-2009, 09:04 AM
I just saw that I posted out of the 2008 guide. If someone has the 2009 guide they might be able to clear things up.

Pistol Teacher
06-02-2009, 09:59 AM
I just saw that I posted out of the 2008 guide. If someone has the 2009 guide they might be able to clear things up.



Existing Law

NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 451 of 1994


324.40116 Hunter orange; exceptions; noncompliance not as evidence of contributory negligence.

Sec. 40116.

(1) A person shall not take game during the established daylight shooting hours from August 15 through April 30 unless the person wears a cap, hat, vest, jacket, or rain gear of the highly visible color commonly referred to as hunter orange. Hunter orange includes blaze orange, flame orange, or fluorescent blaze orange, and camouflage that is not less than 50% hunter orange. The garments that are hunter orange shall be the hunter's outermost garment and shall be visible from all sides of the hunter.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person engaged in the taking of deer with a bow during archery deer season, a person taking bear with a bow, or a person engaged in the taking of turkey or migratory birds other than woodcock.

(3) The failure of a person to comply with this section is not evidence of contributory negligence in a civil action for injury to the person or for the person's wrongful death.

tenthumbs
06-02-2009, 10:09 AM
I have to disagree with you. An orange hat can alone can and does meet the requirement.


I stand Corrected....Age Induced Brain Fart I Guess.

We RECOMMEND in our class that Students wear more than a hat.

When I became Certified the DNR did send Me an orange Hat and Vest to wear while Teaching.





www.michigan.gov

(To Print: use your browser's print function) Release Date: April 29, 2002
Last Update: August 04, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hunter Orange Clothing Requirements
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may not hunt with any device, or trap with a firearm, on any lands during daylight hunting hours from August 15-April 30 unless you wear a hat, cap, vest, jacket or rain gear of highly visible color, commonly referred to as Hunter Orange. When hunting in any season with a license that aurthorizes the use of a firearm, you must wear Hunter Orange except as noted below. During the November firearm deer season, this law applies to all deer hunters, including those hunting with a bow and arrow. The garment, featuring Hunter Orange, must be the outermost garment and must be visible from all sides. Camouflage orange garments, with 50 percent or more of the surface in Hunter Orange, are legal.
Exception: This law does not apply to persons hunting waterfowl, crow and wild turkey, or to archery bear hunters. Archery deer hunters also are not required to wear Hunter Orange except during the youth firearm season and the November firearm deer season.



Copyright © 2009 State of Michigan

Done Deal
06-02-2009, 04:59 PM
I stand Corrected....Age Induced Brain Fart I Guess.



No biggie....

I would gladly trade for the old requirement if they would also back to the no bolt in gun as legal or allow centerfire after dark for varmints but, thats the way it goes I guess...

Edwin
06-11-2009, 02:56 PM
good to see you have hunting education here

JimmyC
06-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Interesting, I'll stay tuned to this one.

DickTracy1953
06-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Often I only wear a hunters orange hat, one that has the pull down ear flaps that can be tied down. If I am on an adjacent farm then I reverse the top of my field jacket to display orange on all sides. When I go on public land I would never go a field with just the minimum amount of orange visible. When you are walking about or stalking a hunters orange cap provides good visibility to other hunters. Your head moves around more than you might think. For this very reason I would not want to wear orange gloves or mittens.

Over the past two years I have done some hunting from ground blinds. On more than one occasion I left my blind to engage in scouting activities trying to find possible alternative setups. I noticed that from one hundred fifty meters distance that I had trouble spotting my blind even when I knew where it was located.

I think that marking your blind with a hunters orange hat or some type of a flag would improve your safety. If there are multiple ground blinds it is helpful to know which ones are being used.

Done Deal
07-02-2009, 09:10 PM
If there are multiple ground blinds it is helpful to know which ones are being used.


Ah yes....and then there is the old trick of leaving a orange hat propped up in a blind so your neighbor thinks you are hunting that blind and refrains from sneaking over and hunting out of it.

Zofchak
07-03-2009, 04:58 PM
Personally I would never hunt a blind without visible hunters orange during the firearm deer season (State or public). The tragic incidents during last season show those hunting private property are at risk as well.

Barrettone
07-04-2009, 11:21 AM
I think on private land it should not be mandated. It is an erosion of property/personal rights IMO. On public land, they can make the rules. I can control what happens on my property for the most part.

Leader
07-06-2009, 12:49 PM
I still don't understand why I am in so much more danger then a bow hunter during small gams season?
If I hunt with a gun, I need orange but the bow hunter sitting in the blind with me doesn't. (Shootin' tree rats)

Done Deal
07-07-2009, 09:55 AM
I still don't understand why I am in so much more danger then a bow hunter during small gams season?
If I hunt with a gun, I need orange but the bow hunter sitting in the blind with me doesn't. (Shootin' tree rats)

You have a friend that bow hunts tree rats from a ground blind? Over bait or what?

Leader
07-07-2009, 10:13 AM
You have a friend that bow hunts tree rats from a ground blind? Over bait or what?

Ok.. No blind, just a bow hunter and a gun hunter shooting treerats.
How am I in more danger then he is?
Maybe it is rabbits we're hunting.
It's September, he's hunting deer from the ground and I'm hunting (insert any small game in season).
He is safer because he MAY have cammo on?
I can't wear cammo because it is too dangerous?

Done Deal
07-07-2009, 10:56 AM
I can't wear cammo because it is too dangerous?

You certainly can wear camo, just remember to wear an orange hat when hunting bunnies or squirrels with a firearm. Now if you are hunting ducks or turkeys, that would be a different story.

The requirements are not strictly about safety. The DNR would never be able to enact legislation requiring waterfowl and turkey hunters to wear orange....and bow hunters can wear orange if they want to (I have seen it).

Leader
07-07-2009, 11:10 AM
You certainly can wear camo, just remember to wear an orange hat when hunting bunnies or squirrels with a firearm. Now if you are hunting ducks or turkeys, that would be a different story.

The requirements are not strictly about safety. The DNR would never be able to enact legislation requiring waterfowl and turkey hunters to wear orange....and bow hunters can wear orange if they want to (I have seen it).

The problem is some archers (crossbow hunters) are *REQUIRED* to wear orange and the rest of the archers (long bow & compound hunters) are not.
Now all of a sudden, we need to have orange on our blinds????
How many people have been shot in blinds in the last 25 years?
Is this really a big problem?
By comparison, how many hunters wearing orange have been shot in the last 25 years?
Will longbow & compound bow hunters be required to have orange on their blinds & treestands?
And if it is NOT about safety, what IS it about?

Done Deal
07-07-2009, 12:03 PM
And if it is NOT about safety, what IS it about?

I said not strictly about safety. If it was, they would figure out a way to make the spandex peddlers and rail/trail walkers wear it when they are messing up my hunting. But they don't do they?

Some hunting requires concealment for success. That is why not all hunters are required to wear orange.

I am not gonna even start on the crossbow thing....except maybe to say that they aren't typical "archers".

Leader
07-08-2009, 01:55 PM
I said not strictly about safety. .;.............

Some hunting requires concealment for success. That is why not all hunters are required to wear orange.

I am not gonna even start on the crossbow thing....except maybe to say that they aren't typical "archers".

What hunting "REQUIRES" concealment? I don't remember seeing that in any of the hunting guides.

Crossbow archers have been around a LOT longer then those using a compound bow.

Done Deal
07-13-2009, 12:58 PM
What hunting "REQUIRES" concealment? I don't remember seeing that in any of the hunting guides.

Crossbow archers have been around a LOT longer then those using a compound bow.

Archers?

Oh, you mean the x-gun guys and their bolts?

I will advocate loosening up on that requirement when they eliminate the requirement for most varmint hunters to wear orange too. Where were you when they tightened those requirements?

Leader
07-13-2009, 01:07 PM
Archers?

Oh, you mean the x-gun guys and their bolts?

I will advocate loosening up on that requirement when they eliminate the requirement for most varmint hunters to wear orange too. Where were you when they tightened those requirements?

Ya didn't answer my question nor dispute the fact that crossbow archers have been around MUCH LONGER then compound shooters.

Actually I was working when that happened, didn't have much time to hunt back then. I didn't pay much attention to varmint hunting until the ground hogs started trying to play with my daughters horses.

Done Deal
07-13-2009, 02:22 PM
Ya didn't answer my question nor dispute the fact that crossbow archers have been around MUCH LONGER then compound shooters.



Sure, crossbow hunters have been around longer than compounds but, I don't understand quite what bearing that has on the DNR's decision to require them to wear orange.

I never said that I agree with the DNR decision, it is not a well thought out plan at all (one would hope) but, I just don't think that how long they have been around is gonna hold alot of water in any debate to get it changed.

pilotmg1501
07-22-2009, 10:52 AM
Ok...so as I read it, the bill passed WITHOUT the requirement to have orange on the blinds?

So all this bill did was tighten up some language regarding orange use?

Seems like a waste to me, but I'm glad they removed the part about orange on the blinds

Leader
07-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Ok...so as I read it, the bill passed WITHOUT the requirement to have orange on the blinds?

So all this bill did was tighten up some language regarding orange use?

Seems like a waste to me, but I'm glad they removed the part about orange on the blinds

Biggest thing it did was remove the requirement that some archers had to wear hunter orange & others didn't.
At least now all archers have the same rules.

SWMP15
09-11-2009, 12:01 AM
whoever thought of this should be painted in hunters orange and shot at! are you serious!? hunters orange on a blind....our blinds are even camo'd out inside!!

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs276.snc1/10316_529153969704_66303949_31230113_2298672_n.jpg

and how many inches for this one?
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs276.snc1/10316_529153954734_66303949_31230110_5490395_n.jpg

and the new one is in the process (about 85% complete)....maybe we should just paint the whole thing orange since its a ******* octagon!!

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs276.snc1/10316_529153934774_66303949_31230106_5790531_n.jpg

glock4life
09-16-2009, 08:23 AM
nice job on the blind ! what kind of cash do you have in that house o sorry i mean blind ?

ro2
09-16-2009, 10:58 AM
I can see you really like to ruff it out there

Garbo
09-16-2009, 11:35 AM
85% complete? what is the plumbing not in yet?