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Bugsy
06-09-2009, 02:08 PM
So I installed a new ATI synthetic stock on my 91/30 mosin. Everything screwed right in until i tried to dry fire. The trigger was disconnected! In order to remove the bolt from the gun you have to hold down the trigger and pull straight back on the bolt. Since the trigger is broken there is no way to release the bolt from the receiver. You cant remove the stock with the bolt still in either so there is no way to access the trigger parts. I'm sort of a noob when it comes to guns. Are there any mosin owners that have had this happen to them? how can i fix this?

thanks!

wombat12
06-09-2009, 05:31 PM
You should be able to get to the screw by removing cocking piece. Turn the screw (actually the firing pin) to free up cocking knob. Careful- it's under spring pressure. To reassemble, follow instructions here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBQ9EVlaRmo

If you prefer pictures to video:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/finnishmosin/boltdisassembly/index.asp

dfrak
06-09-2009, 06:18 PM
Welcome to MGO, Bugsy.

I bet wombat12's approach will work.

If not, you might be able to depress the trigger spring-bolt stop by reaching under the bolt from the rear. My M44 seems to allow enough room, but I didn't have anything that could reach it to try.

Let us know how you resolve it.

Dan

Bugsy
06-10-2009, 02:02 PM
I'll try that as soon as I get home. Thank you guys so much. I was about to just go buy another one. lol

Bugsy
06-10-2009, 06:28 PM
YAAAAAAY IT WORKED!!

im so happy :D I slid a long screwdriver under the bolt to activate the trigger. Thanks guys

dfrak
06-10-2009, 06:36 PM
Glad it worked!

That's part of the fun of gun ownership, especially the old mil surps.

Now, what cause the problem in the first place?

Dan

wombat12
06-11-2009, 06:13 AM
Glad it worked!

That's part of the fun of gun ownership, especially the old mil surps.

Now, what cause the problem in the first place?

Dan

My guess is that the trigger pin was out. The trigger would still be held in the action by the bolt stop/spring. Not in the mood to take a Mosin apart right now, but I wonder if you couldn't pull down on the trigger to release the bolt?

dfrak
06-11-2009, 06:42 AM
... I wonder if you couldn't pull down on the trigger to release the bolt?

Looking at a diagram, it seems possible, provided there is enough room in the trigger guard.

Dan

Bugsy
06-11-2009, 02:44 PM
yep it was the trigger pin. i found it rolling around on the floor in my basement (oops) it must have fallen out when i installed the new stock. everything works now. just ordered a bipod and a cheap-o scope. should be a good gun for plinking. Shooter's service by my house has a bag of 50 Armor Piercing rounds in 7.62x54R for 20 bucks. I didn't know that was legal but it'll sure be fun

dfrak
06-11-2009, 03:48 PM
Good to hear you have it back in working order.

They are a lot of fun to shoot. I would guess that the ammo you described is corrosive, so keep that in mind after you are done blasting away.

I live a couple miles west of Shooter's Service and stop by there about once a week. I was there today, but still no primers...

Dan

wombat12
06-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Shooter's service by my house has a bag of 50 Armor Piercing rounds in 7.62x54R for 20 bucks. I didn't know that was legal but it'll sure be fun

Best guess is the ammo is Chinese with a soft steel core. Nor really armor piercing, just cheaper to produce.

wombat12
06-13-2009, 08:47 AM
Couple links on accurizing a Mosin:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=92531&highlight=mosin+shim

I think the gray automotive gasket material is the ticket.

dfrak
06-13-2009, 12:19 PM
wombat12,
Thanks for the posts. I just read the gunboards link you posted and now I am anxious to try it out!

I hope to have some time next weekend.

Have you tested it yet?

Dan

wombat12
06-13-2009, 01:03 PM
wombat12,
Thanks for the posts. I just read the gunboards link you posted and now I am anxious to try it out!

I hope to have some time next weekend.

Have you tested it yet?

Dan

Actually, no. I use iron sights on my Mosins and they already shoot as well as my old eyes will allow!

dfrak
06-14-2009, 12:43 PM
... they already shoot as well as my old eyes will allow!
I know what you mean! I don't really view these as target rifles, but I do have a Finnish and a Polish version that shoot really well.

I went out and picked up some of the gray gasket material today. One of my friends and I are going to test it out with his Russian M44 next weekend. It shoots several inches to left, so we will see if we can improve that.

I also have a beat up Chinese M53 that I will try to improve. It doesn't shoot anything resembling a group, so if should be fun to play with...

Maybe we'll take some pictures and write it up in a couple weeks...

Dan

wombat12
06-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Assume you saw the part of POI change with bayonet extended/folded. Would also apply to the M53.

dfrak
06-14-2009, 04:31 PM
Re: bayo extended.
I'll have to remember to add that to my test cases.

Dan

dfrak
06-23-2009, 05:03 AM
I thought I would give the “bedding” technique in the Gunboards link above a try this past weekend. According to the comments there, people who tried this technique reported that their groups improved and, in some instances, the group as a whole moved either horizontally or vertically.

I decided to try out three M44s to see which had the poorest group with two different types of military surplus ammo. My Romanian M44, built it, 1954 “won.”

I fired a few rounds of 7.62x54R through it, disassembled it, did the bedding, and then fired the same ammo through it. All shots were fired from a rest.

For the bedding, I used the gray gasket material, per wombat12’s suggestion. I was concerned that it might absorb moisture, so I rubbed oil into the gasket material before I put it in place.

Here is essentially what the bedding looked like:
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/dfrak/Romanian%20M44%20AL/RomBedding.jpg

I changed a couple things while putting the gun together. At point 1, I cut the strip to be only about a half inch long, instead of the approximately three inches shown here. The stock, barrel and handgun fit was not good with such a long piece of material. At points 1 and 2, I pounded the gasket material down just slightly with a plastic mallet for a better fit. It was just a little too thick. Although it is not shown in this picture, I also added a piece of gasket material against the rear of the cutout in the stock (point 3) for the recoil lug on the barrel. The material fit against the cross bolt in the stock. All told, it took about 45 minutes to complete the process.

The photo below shows the shots fired before the bedding was done.
For reference, the pink target square is 2 inches.
E represents Hungarian Surplus Yellow Tip – Heavy Ball.
F represents the Czech Silver tip in the blue boxes.
All six shots were fired at 25 yards.
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/dfrak/Romanian%20M44%20AL/RomTest1a.jpg

Once the bedding was completed, I took the following shots shown below. Again, for reference, the green target square is 2 inches.
G represents the same Hungarian Surplus Yellow Tip – Heavy Ball as E in the picture above.

After the first three shots, I tightened up the two screws that hold the action in the stock. They needed just a little tweak, maybe about a quarter turn each. Unfortunately, I did not note which shots were the first three.

H represents the same Czech Silver tip in the blue boxes as F in the photo above. All shots were fired at 25 yards, but note that I shot six rounds of the Hungarian (G) and three rounds of the Czech this time.
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/dfrak/Romanian%20M44%20AL/RomTest2a.jpg

It is a little difficult to tell the difference between the photos without a ruler or other reference, but it is obvious the groups improved, especially with the Czech ammo. Note that with both types of ammo, I was able to put two rounds in the same hole. The Czech group (H) was about a half inch.

A friend also did a test on his Russian M44. Although I don’t have pictures, the results were very impressive. Using the lightweight Czech “Practice” ammo, the group went from over two inches, horizontally strung progressively from right to left, to a little under a half inch, with two in the same hole. The smaller group was approximately an inch higher, above the right-most shot of the previous group.

In addition to testing if the bedding would improve the group, we also wanted to see if it would affect the point of impact. Other people reported that this changed in their tests. In both of the M44s we tested it did not change considerably; they shot to the left of the point of aim before the bedding and they shot to the left of the point of aim after the bedding.

Despite that, the results convinced me that it is worth the effort and I will probably try it again, testing at a longer distance. I'll also have to remember the suggestion to try it with the bayonet extended. Another good reason to go out to the range!

I hope this helps and I am interested to know if anyone else has tried it.

Dan

nascarkent
06-23-2009, 07:24 AM
That is a very interesting and informative post . Thanks for your time and effort.

wombat12
06-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Great info Dan. One more thing to try. Somewhere I have read that the front guard screw should be tight, but the rear should be let off approx 1/8 turn. Hope I don't cause you to run out of ammo just when you get it perfect!

dfrak
06-23-2009, 07:09 PM
That is a very interesting and informative post . Thanks for your time and effort.
Thanks and it was fun doing it.
It will be interesting to see if anyone else gives it a try.

Dan

dfrak
06-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Great info Dan. One more thing to try. Somewhere I have read that the front guard screw should be tight, but the rear should be let off approx 1/8 turn. Hope I don't cause you to run out of ammo just when you get it perfect!
Thanks, wombat12, and I appreciated the suggestion about the gasket material. It helped eliminate a lot of trial and error.

So, I have to start a check list:
1) Open another tin of ammo :)
2) Extended bayo vs. non-extended bayo
3) Rear screw tight vs rear screw 1/8 turn loose.

I'll give an update once I get a chance to try it out.

Dan