questions from a new competitive shooter.

[raptorvan]

hey guys, i would like to start getting into competitive shooting but i dont know where to start. i probably need some serious practice so a range that it friendly would be nice and i dont know where to actually get my foot in the door if you know what i mean. any infor would be much appreciated.

thanks

[boganz45]

What kind of competitive shooting?

[raptorvan]

don t know

[RevDerb]

Here's some reading for you if you're interested in Bullseye competition: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

:stupid:

[Sargeyork]

I would suggest IDPA, IPSC, or 3 gun, check your local clubs or someone you know who belongs to a local club.

[Trebor]

What kind of shooting are you most interested in?

If you know what type of shooting you want to do, or what skills you want to improve, we can help you figure out what types of competition best meets your interest.

Here are some types of compeition:

NRA Bullseye - This is shot with handguns, one handed, at ranges of up to 25 yards or even 50 yards. Competitors can shoot either a .22 pistol or compete in a course that requires a .22, .45 ACP, and one other centefire (can use the .45 for this as well).

Bullseye places a premium on accuracy, not speed. The best shooters I know all shoot bullseye at one point or another. It is pure marksmanship. It is not geared towards simulating self defense.

NRA Highpower (rifle) and CMP Highpower - In Highpower shooting you shoot centerfire rifles at 200 yards from standing (rapid fire), 300 yards from sitting (rapid fire) and 600 yards from prone (slow fire). There are reduced size targets available that allow clubs to hold reduced distance matches at 200 or 300 yards only for clubs that do not have a 600 yard range.

Highpower is all about accuracy. In some ways it is the rifle equivilant of Bullseye. The rifles are specialized for match shooting.

For both Bullseye and Highpower you'd have to learn more about those sports and then acquire the appropriate firearms. You can shoot a local 200 yard match with a M-1 Garand, but you wouldn't be competitive against more experienced shooters with match AR's. The CMP offers similiar shoots and many clubs offer CMP clinics where you can learn more and shoot.

There's also "Action pistol" type matches that involve pistol shooting on the move.

IDPA is more "defense oriented." You can shoot pretty much any iron sighted handgun and the scenarios are supposed to represent defensive shooting. Many clubs in the area sponsor IDPA matches.

IPSC is a bit more "run and gun." They do have a "Production" class, which lets you shoot pretty much any production gun, and they also have "open" class which lets you shoot guns with red dot optics.

There are some rules differences and philosophical differences between IDPA and IPSC. If you practice and compete though both will help you learn how to shoot a pistol accuracy under pressure.

There's also "3 Gun" matches that involve a handgun, rifle and shotgun. These are based off of IPSC matches.

ACTS matches are just pistol and rifle and are set up with defensive shooting in mind. They aren't as common as 3 Gun, but there are some clubs in Michigan doing them.


There's also small bore rifle, shotgun shooting at Skeet or Trap or Sporting Clays ranges and Cowboy Action Shooting, which is kind of like 3 Gun with cowyboy clothes. There's probably some other competitions I'm not thinking of as well.

So, what type of shooting are you interested in?

[PhotoTom]

Moved to "Competitive/Sport Shooting" forum

- Admin

[johnzilla]

hey guys, i would like to start getting into competitive shooting but i dont know where to start. i probably need some serious practice so a range that it friendly would be nice and i dont know where to actually get my foot in the door if you know what i mean. any infor would be much appreciated.

thanks

Well, with the guns listed in your signature, IDPA is probably the easiest to start with.

http://www.idpa.com/

You can also do searches here on IDPA for lots of info.

Equipment: production, unmodified handguns, good holster, 4 mags, belt pouches to hold the mags, a concealment garment (jacket, shirt, etc), eye protection, ear protection

Ammo: usually 100-120 rounds per match

IDPA is "practical tactical". Anyone can shoot a match. If you have not classified or are just trying it out, you shoot as "Unclassified". That's the nice thing about IDPA...you are never ranked against anyone but those people at your own skill level. Once you are comfortable with shooting, you can take the classifier match and receive a classification. Most people start at Novice, but if you're good you could start higher.

Scenarios are usually 5 stages per match. Anywhere from 4-15 targets per stage. Scoring is simple...you are scored on time and accuracy. You get a time for the stage, and then seconds are added for inaccurate or missed shots. So fastest, most accurate has the lowest score.

Google around or check Youtube for diagrams and videos of past stages at clubs around the country to see what you can expect in a stage. Some clubs get very elaborate, some don't.

I've found the clubs around here (SE MI) very friendly to new shooters. When you go to register and at each stage, just tell the RSO (range safety officer) that you are new and they will be glad to help you out. Nobody will rush you.

You can take it as far as you like...just entertainment/fun once in awhile, or serious, or somewhere in between. If serious, there are regional and state-level matches as well as a national match.

Most clubs charge $20/match, sometimes a little more if you are not a IDPA member.

Closest range/club to you would be Raccoon Hunters (http://www.raccoonhunters.org/). Next closest would probably be LCSA (http://www.lcsa.info). There's also Detroit Sportsmens Congress out in the Utica area.

I think Raccoon Hunters has practices once a week. LCSA has an "Intro to IDPA" class every spring that takes you through the safety rules, etc and then out to the range for 3 or 4 practice stages. Well worth taking the class.

It is the most fun I've ever had shooting. The nice thing about IDPA vs. other shooting sports is that you use the stuff you have...no special firearms, no special modifications, etc needed. So very low cost to entry.

On a less formal front, many ranges around SE MI have "leagues" during the winter. Firing Line in Westland does this...it usually costs something like $275 for the season and there are something like 10-15 matches with a banquet and trophies at the end. It is a nice way to shoot competitively during the winter. Check other ranges for indoor leagues, too.

Other options besides those already listed in previous posts: GSSF (Glock Sport Shooting Foundation), bowling pin shoots (Top Gun does this), and more.

[raptorvan]

thanks for all the info guys. appreciate it.

[remingtondude58]

Come out to a 3 gun match at Spectacle lake outdoor club!

[tapandrack]

Trebor and Johnzilla,
Thanks for the generous and informative posts on IDPA and other classifications of shooting. I had the same question as the original poster and did not know where to start. It will be IDPA now.

Thanks again guys!

Tap

[wJAKE19]

visit

http://www.tacticalblasters.com/

the website of my local club's IDPA website.

[tapandrack]

Thanks, I saw the youtube video of the 2009 IDPA Championships last night and it was from this club. They seem top notch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBziYBq57Xc

[wJAKE19]

yes... we work hard to make it a fun match every month.. if you ever get a chance to come out, make sure you stop by and say hi..

[ltdave]

NRA Highpower (rifle) and CMP Highpower - In Highpower shooting you shoot centerfire rifles at 200 yards from standing (rapid fire), 300 yards from sitting (rapid fire) and 600 yards from prone (slow fire). There are reduced size targets available that allow clubs to hold reduced distance matches at 200 or 300 yards only for clubs that do not have a 600 yard range.

in Highpower Rifle Competition you have both CMP and NRA as mentioned but the matches are slightly different from each other...

200yds 10 rounds in 10 minutes STANDING
200yds 10 rounds in 60 seconds SITTING (nra) SITTING from STANDING (cmp)
300yds 10 rounds in 70 seconds PRONE (nra) PRONE from STANDING (cmp)
600yds 20 rounds in 20 minutes PRONE

these differences in the rapid fire (60 or 70 seconds) breaks down like this. you have a 3 minute preparation time and at the end of the prep time you stay in position with NRA competition, but you STAND when told to do so by the Range Officer and THEN get into position when the time starts...

in an NRA National Match Course you fire 22 rounds standing in 22 minutes with the first 2 rounds sighters. in the rapid fire stages you fire 2 slowfire sighters and then you fire your 10 rounds in the alloted time, twice. at 600yds you get 22 minutes for 22 rounds again with the first 2 rounds being sighters...

the NRA also has a 50 round match that mimics the CMP match but still allows 2 sighters in every position...

NRA matches are shot against your own classification and rifle type (match rifle or service rifle) service rifle is M-14/M1A, M-16/AR-15, match rifle is anything else. CMP is fired against everyone in the match and is only service rifle...

not mentioned is the CMP bullseye pistol match which again mimics the NRA match but with no sighters AND it must be shot with a service pistol being an M-1911/M-1911-A1 or an M-9/Beretta 92F...

[EricF517]

Is there an age limit for IDPA?

[mishooter]

Trebor and Johnzilla,
Thanks for the generous and informative posts on IDPA and other classifications of shooting. I had the same question as the original poster and did not know where to start. Tap, since you're on the east side, you might be interested also in shooting pins at Peter's, on Gratiot, on Thursday nights. Some Thursdays it's timed fire on paper targets, instead, so call first.

[tapandrack]

Tap, since you're on the east side, you might be interested also in shooting pins at Peter's, on Gratiot, on Thursday nights. Some Thursdays it's timed fire on paper targets, instead, so call first.

mishooter, thanks, you know I've been to Target Sports and Double Action but never shot at Peters. I'll look into that.

[Big_Jim]

..

[wurm]

Thanks again wJAKE19 for a great state match this year. I had a great time.

Tapandrack (or anyone else for that matter), if you are interested in trying IDPA soon we have a match at DSC http://www.d-s-c.org next Saturday the 26th. I'd be happy to meet you before the match and show you around and help get you comfortable. If you have any questions on gear needed feel free to ask and if you are short anything we can try and track something down. I would've offered to meet you at Raccoon Hunters this morning if I would've checked this thread before today. They put on a nice friendly match and it isn't too far away from you.

[tapandrack]

Thanks for the offer wurm! I'm up north for the next couple weekends so I can't make the 26th but appreciate the offer. I'm doing research on the sport and will be getting the appropriate gear (mag holster, etc). I'm going to try come out and watch the mid October 17 IDPA Match at Raccoon Hunters since it's close and they seem to have a great program. Maybe make a practice before then. Hope to see you and any other members there!

[EricF517]

No, but they need to be responsible and be able to take direction and safe gun handling is a must. Bring out the young'un and let them watch and help out the first time. Let them decide if they want to try it.

That was my plan. My daughter is getting her G19 for her birthday this year as she is graduating from her P22 and wants to try out shooting competition. Safe gun handling? LOL she gets on my case from time to time even when she knows they are unloaded and half way taken apart.

One more question. I have been reading the rules for the IDPA and it seems that a 1911 would automatically take you out of the service pistol class. Is that true? Also I don't see much in the way of the DA/SA actions and where they would fall.

[wJAKE19]

we have some youngin's out at south kent every month. the match directors daughter has been shooting sence she was 9 (G19 w/22conversion) we even had a junior at the state match, I think he was 14...

saftey is #1

[wurm]

That was my plan. My daughter is getting her G19 for her birthday this year as she is graduating from her P22 and wants to try out shooting competition. Safe gun handling? LOL she gets on my case from time to time even when she knows they are unloaded and half way taken apart.

One more question. I have been reading the rules for the IDPA and it seems that a 1911 would automatically take you out of the service pistol class. Is that true? Also I don't see much in the way of the DA/SA actions and where they would fall.

It is great seeing young people out there shooting.

1911s in .45 fall under CDP which is for .45 guns and has a limit of 8 rounds in the magazine. You can shoot other .45s like the Glock 21 but you have to download your magazines to 8 rounds to keep the single stack 1911s competitive. CDP people end up reloading more often so their times are usually a little slower than the SSP and ESP people who get ten rounds in their magazines. 1911s in 9mm or .40 fall under ESP and is what I've been shooting this past season (though I've been working with one of my Glocks lately to get my times up for SSP).

DA/SA guns like Sigs, HKs, M&Ps etc typically shoot in SSP with all the Glocks.

[mishooter]

Tapandrack (or anyone else for that matter), if you are interested in trying IDPA soon we have a match at DSC http://www.d-s-c.org next Saturday the 26th.I'd almost be prone to giving it a try this coming weekend, had I the holster and mag pouches for my G34. Unfortunately, finances dictate those'll have to wait for Santa Claus ;). Perhaps I'll come out and watch, tho.

[wurm]

Don't happen to be left handed do you? I've got a Glock setup for those of us afflicted with the crippling south pawedness you could try out.

[mishooter]

Don't happen to be left handed do you?No, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending upon perspective), I'm right-handed. And while I am mildly ambidexterous, I'm not that ambidexterous. Thanks for the offer, tho :).

[tapandrack]

Hey guys,

I checked out the Racoon Hunters IDPA match this past Saturday 10/17 and participated in their practice on Sunday 10/18. It was a blast! Best part was I shot all 0's in my last scenario. What a great bunch of people I met! Very helpful.

It was so much more interesting than shooting at a range, cost only $5 for 2 hours and I learned a lot about myself and the challenges of draw firing and firing on the move and fast reloading. All of which I never did before yesterday.

I'm gonna like this! :usa:

Tap

[wurm]

I wish I would've known you were going to be there. It would have been nice to meet you. I was finally shooting my Glock 35 for the first time in competition so it was a fun day. I did pretty good except for dropping a mag and having to pick it back up off the ground. Ooops! That'll slow you down some. Did you get to shoot the match on Saturday or just stop by and watch? The people that work there put on a heck of a match and are really nice too. I like shooting there a lot.

So, are you hooked? Raccoon Hunters is supposed to be having a November match on the 14th (at least they said they were if enough people were interested). DSC is having their Halloween match this Saturday if you are looking for something a little sooner.

[tapandrack]

Hey Wurm,
I only watched part of the match on Saturday but it was enough for me to see it looked like fun. When I shot the practice on Sunday it was intense and a great time. Funny how things change when the buzzer goes off in your ear.

Yep, I'm hooked and am working on bringing a buddy or two in 2 weeks. This week I'm up north so I can't make practice. Thanks for the encouragement!

Tap :biggrin:

[wurm]

Damn buzzer. It is amazing how the best laid plans can just disappear when that thing goes off in your ear. I'm working on actually visualizing the stage before I shoot and then just letting my brain run on auto pilot when the buzzer goes off. Works, sometimes.

Bringing a friend is actually a great idea. I started shooting with a friend who still goes out with me every weekend. It took the edge off a bit when we first started by having someone to share the experience with, share rides and talk about the match after on the ride home. We've been video taping each other lately which has been a big help. Recently he picked up a Smith M&P and I've been shooting my Glock so we get to give each other a hard time about it and talk smack to each other. I started out better than him but he's been catching up lately so it pushes me to do better. My wife always asks me if I beat him when I come home from a match. It is pretty funny.

I look forward to shooting with you some day. Shoot my a message if you make it out to a match soon or want to come to DSC to practice.

[tapandrack]

Wurm,
When are practices for IDPA at the DSC? All I see on the website is defensive pistol practice from 4-8pm on Wed.
Tap

[Will-IB-Ready]

I live quite a ways up north of you fellas. Does anyone know of competitions in the Grand Rapids area or even further north? I'm especially interested in a good indoor range that has IDPA stages to practice through the winter.
Thanks,
Chris

[wJAKE19]

silver bullet runs IDPA in the winter

get a hold of the sportsman club in cadilac if thats not to far north.

also the rockford sportsman club runs an IDPA like combat action pistol match.

south kent sportsman club has IDPA, just south of GR

[Will-IB-Ready]

Wow. That's great news. Thanks a lot! Do you compete/practice in this area? I'd love to be able to connect with some like minded people to do some training.

[wurm]

Wurm,
When are practices for IDPA at the DSC? All I see on the website is defensive pistol practice from 4-8pm on Wed.
Tap

Sorry for the delay in responding, DSC got a new match director a little while back and I wanted to make sure my info was correct. Starting in November practices move to Saturday mornings. I didn't get hours but last winter they were 9am to 1pm so I'd assume something similar to that. Right now practices are Friday from 4 till dark but this week is match setup instead of practice and next week is the last Friday practice.

The Wednesday night practice isn't our IDPA practice but has a lot of the same people, though not usually me unless I get out of work early. A bit more laid back and maybe a bit more geared towards the non gamer who wants to practice drawing from a holster, shooting on the move, etc. Unfortunately it is only running till next week and then it goes dormant for winter unless they can find somewhere indoors for it.

[mikee1973]

I plan on being at DSC for the zombie shoot Saturday morning. this would be my first venture into IDPA but have been to a couple of the DPP's on Wednesday nights.

I'll be the super slow newbie in ESP running an XD.

[mikee1973]

Zombie Match @ DSC for tomorrow has been moved to next Saturday 10/31/09. Just spoke to Ben and with the weather we are having they wont be able to get the match set up done today for tomorrow's shoot.

Hope to make it out there for that.

[wurm]

Zombie Match @ DSC for tomorrow has been moved to next Saturday 10/31/09. Just spoke to Ben and with the weather we are having they wont be able to get the match set up done today for tomorrow's shoot.

Hope to make it out there for that.

I am so bummed. I was realllly itching to shoot a match tomorrow :( Oh well, I'll see everyone next weekend then.

[tapandrack]

Did my last outdoor IDPA practice at Racoon Hunters in Romulus this past Sunday. That's it for them until Spring. Great guys they are!

Any ideas on who has indoor or outdoor IDPA practices throughout the year? :badass:

Thanks!

[wurm]

Just shot the Saturday IDPA match this past Saturday at Raccoon Hunters and it was a great day for it. Most people were down to t-shirts it was so nice. Good match too. Nothing too fancy this time but all 5 stages were fun.

DSC is back to practicing on Saturday mornings for the winter. 10am to 1pm or so. Weather.com says it is going to be a high of 50 and cloudy. Bring boots or shoes you don't mind getting a little muddy. DSC doesn't have rocks on the ground like Raccoon Hunters (there are wood chips in places but not everywhere) so it can get a bit gooey in spots. I'll be there working with my Glock 35. The weekend before last was just practicing transitions. I lose a lot of time there.

Linden may still have Saturday practices through the winter. Not real sure. If anyone knows please post it up.

[tapandrack]

Hey Wurm,

Thanks for the heads up. So you're saying there is an IDPA practice at DSC outside on Saturday at 10AM?

I was also looking at their IPSC practices since they run year round and indoors in winter. They practice 5-8pm on Saturdays. Any experience with them?

Tap

[wurm]

There had better be a practice this Saturday at 10am or I'll be at the font gate crying. I have some freshly reloaded ammo to burn up. IDPA practices at the outdoor pistol bays year round. The USPSA guys get the nice and warm indoor range. I'll shoot an email to the director or assistant director and make sure everything is a go for this weekend. I'd hate for you to make a long drive for nothing.

I haven't made it to any USPSA shoots yet though i'm always game to try any kind of shooting. I've met some of them and they seem like a nice group. If I end up with more time next season I definitely plan on trying it out. Like I need an excuse to buy more guns or equipment :)

[RECON762WT]

It is so easy to get hooked on competitive shooting!

[RobDog]

Did my last outdoor IDPA practice at Racoon Hunters in Romulus this past Sunday. That's it for them until Spring. Great guys they are!

Any ideas on who has indoor or outdoor IDPA practices throughout the year? :badass:

Thanks!


Just came across this thread. I'm Downriver and am looking to find a club closer than the one I currently belong to. Are you a member of the Racoon Hunters now?

[RobDog]

Did my last outdoor IDPA practice at Racoon Hunters in Romulus this past Sunday. That's it for them until Spring. Great guys they are!

Any ideas on who has indoor or outdoor IDPA practices throughout the year? :badass:

Thanks!


Just came across this thread. I'm Downriver and I'm looking to find a club closer than the one I currently belong to. Are you a member of the Racoon Hunters now?