What is the best/cheap 3-gun rifle?

[g-unit]

Looking to pick up a rifle to shoot 3-gun, I don't need a super hotrod king-daddy megabuck setup... just something to get started with. I have a 8-shot shotgun and a handgun, but need a rifle.

I'm guessing that an AR is the choice for most, but I'd consider an AK. I just want something that doesnt cost a fortune, but can be competitive.

For example, I shot a Marlin 2000 in smallbore when I was a junior, solid cheap and shot well. Thats the idea.

Alright, let the ideas fly.

[Joeywhat]

AK-74 with Ultimak rail and Aimpoint glass. Or run irons if you're hardcore. Good AK will run $500 or so. Figure another hundie for sling and mags, and a few hundred for a case of ammo.

[TFin04]

There is no way an AK can hold its own in competitions. Everyone knows that.

[remingtondude58]

What 3 gun? A 10/22 would probably work great and have low ammo costs. There are many options, depending on what you want to spend. I would probably go with what Joe said. You could wait for a cheap used AR, get a AK, most 22's with detachable mags, a SKS, ruger police carbine, kel tec sub 2000, mini 14. I can't comment on the quality of these, so hopefully someone else will. You need to figure out what is allowed where you plan to shoot 3 gun. There are many option, I have even seen one guy use a hi point carbine.

[HDDJT45]

I have a friend that shoots at Port Huron that uses a Glock and a Kel Tec carbine that uses the same mags. I am set up (for the future) with a Beretta 92F and a CX4 Carbine. My buddy told me that the required carbine shooting distances are minimal. Anyone with experience in SE Michigan with these 3 gun matches?

[RECON762WT]

Look into building an AR...You can spend the money when you have it and end up with a gun that is better than you would purchase from a lot of manufactures. You could probably build a nice 3 gun AR for around $650-$700. The 3 gun season really will not be in full swing until April-May so you do have some time.
-If you go the AK-47 rout for 3 gun use you'll probably just end up wishing you would have bought an AR
-Also can pick up a 22lr conversion for your AR to practice...saves TONS of $$$$

[g-unit]

There is no way an AK can hold its own in competitions. Everyone knows that.

I dont know the history here, but I take it that you shoot an AK well and take some crap for it? Is there a handful of key modifications to make to an AK? Say one of them WASR deals from dunhams?

If I shot a glock I would consider the keltec deal just as a cheap way to get started, but I wasnt sure on the distances that they are needed for in the competition. How well does that keltec shoot?

[Harv]

I think the key word in the original post was "competitive". With that in mind I think you're best off with a rifle that can reliably hit a bowling pin at 100 to 150 yards.

In my opinion, the AK47 is not likely on that list of possible rifles, the AK74 is probably on that list, and most, but not all, ARs are on that list. If the rifle has the mechanical ability to shoot that accurately, then it's just a matter of whether you can shoot that accurately.

[RECON762WT]

I guess the question that needs to be asked is...what is your $price$ range?

[mechredd]

SKS would work. It's not the best choice for competition, but it would work.

[sullyxlh]

AK-74 with Ultimak rail and Aimpoint glass. Or run irons if you're hardcore. Good AK will run $500 or so. Figure another hundie for sling and mags, and a few hundred for a case of ammo.
Not to hijack but
is glass necessary?
Am I wasting my time if I don't have it or is there a class for irons only in 3gun?

[Joeywhat]

I dont know the history here, but I take it that you shoot an AK well and take some crap for it? Is there a handful of key modifications to make to an AK? Say one of them WASR deals from dunhams?

If I shot a glock I would consider the keltec deal just as a cheap way to get started, but I wasnt sure on the distances that they are needed for in the competition. How well does that keltec shoot?

He runs an AK like it screwed his mother. Shows up quite a few AR guys, too.

Expect distances of 100 yards and less. Might see some longer depending on the course, might see shorter. Most ranges don't have any 100+ yard ranges anyways, they all stop at 100.

Kel Tec S2000 is a pile of crap, don't bother with it. Distance wouldn't matter, it'll shoot out to 100 yards just fine (if it actually works...).

[Joeywhat]

Not to hijack but
is glass necessary?
Am I wasting my time if I don't have it or is there a class for irons only in 3gun?

If you only run irons you can probably fit into the 'service' or stock class. Check out each match rules for their take on the matter.

[autosurgeon]

I run a Tapcoed SKS with the tech sight 2000 apeture sight system on it. I run the 20 rd tapco mags as well. I have no problem out to 150 yards but most are 100 or less and it is even better at that range.

[boganz45]

Most run ARs. Others run AKs. Run whatever you want really. Seen a FBI agent running a select MP5 in .40 and they allowed it. Shot open with a guy running an AK with an Aimpoint and a 75 round drum although the drum did jam quite often. You do not need an optic (shoot in a limited class with irons only). Hell there are some guys I shoot with that use only irons and they out-shoot many people with optics. Start with irons and get a dot sight eventually if you want to do so. Buy something cheaper if you want, see what works for you, then go from there. The time-killer is shotgun reloads. I use a HBAR 5+1 590A1 and it is quite a disadvantage going against guys with Saigas with 20 round drums and 12 round mags when you have 25 pieces of steel to drop. Regardless, I try to improve myself and my times with what I have rather than buy guns just to use specifically for 3-Gun. That said there are guys out there with the Saigas and drums, ARs and drums, Glocks with 33 round mags, etc. It all depends on what your goals are.

[boganz45]

I dont know the history here, but I take it that you shoot an AK well and take some crap for it? Is there a handful of key modifications to make to an AK? Say one of them WASR deals from dunhams?

If I shot a glock I would consider the keltec deal just as a cheap way to get started, but I wasnt sure on the distances that they are needed for in the competition. How well does that keltec shoot?

He's being sarcastic regarding the AK usage in 3-Gun...

[g-unit]

He's being sarcastic regarding the AK usage in 3-Gun...

thanks for the heads up.

TO follow up...
I guess I dont know the difference between an AK47 and an AK74, anything specific to look for?

I'm not really into building a gun, I don't have the time for it, and I hate getting nickel and dimed.

I guess I dont have a price range exactly, but I'm not ready to spend a ton of money on something just to get started in 3-gun. I'm looking for the "middle of the road" choice.

thanks for the replies
:spiral:

[Joeywhat]

47 = 7.62x39
74 = 5.45x39

5.45 ammo is cheaper, and softer on the shoulder. Less muzzle rise never hurts, either.

[g-unit]

47 = 7.62x39
74 = 5.45x39

5.45 ammo is cheaper, and softer on the shoulder. Less muzzle rise never hurts, either.

right on, thanks.

BTW what is the deal with the iron sights? there is a service weapon class? That might be up my alley. and what I mean is... what's a good source for rules?

[boganz45]

right on, thanks.

BTW what is the deal with the iron sights? there is a service weapon class? That might be up my alley. and what I mean is... what's a good source for rules?

Nothing is wrong with iron sights - they work fine. There should be a shooting class i.e. the one you will choose to compete in that will forbid optics usage allowing only iron sights. 3-Gun classes (restrictions) vary from club to club but for the most part are the same.

LGC 3-Gun Class Descriptions: http://www.mi3gun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=25

BWSA 3-Gun Class Descriptions: http://www.michigan3guncombat.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=59

You will probably shoot 3-Gun at one if not both of these places.

[boganz45]

thanks for the heads up.

TO follow up...
I guess I dont know the difference between an AK47 and an AK74, anything specific to look for?

I'm not really into building a gun, I don't have the time for it, and I hate getting nickel and dimed.

I guess I dont have a price range exactly, but I'm not ready to spend a ton of money on something just to get started in 3-gun. I'm looking for the "middle of the road" choice.

thanks for the replies
:spiral:

As before, what price do you consider middle of the road?

[g-unit]

As before, what price do you consider middle of the road?

Sorry that point was "middle of the road" performance. I'm looking for the best buy, not necessarily the best performance.

Lemme 'splain, if a fella had to choose between a corvette and a ZR1 corvette, but in a race a corvette will perform 80-90% as well as the ZR1 but costs 1/2 as much. I want the corvette not the ZR1.

I'm thinking this is harder than just lining up the possible guns by cost and picking the middle one... hence the question.

[hopeitsfast]

Lemme "splain". Middle of the road to some people is 400-500 dollars. To others it's 2-3 thousand dollars. You really need to pick a number that is close to what you want to spend. Otherwise no one will be able to help you. You can go from a SKS that is 150 bucks to an AR that is 3K+. See where i'm going with this.....we need more info.:)

[HDDJT45]

I dont know the history here, but I take it that you shoot an AK well and take some crap for it? Is there a handful of key modifications to make to an AK? Say one of them WASR deals from dunhams?

If I shot a glock I would consider the keltec deal just as a cheap way to get started, but I wasnt sure on the distances that they are needed for in the competition. How well does that keltec shoot?


From the discussion we had, I thought distances for the carbine portions were less than 75 yards.

[g-unit]

Lemme "splain". Middle of the road to some people is 400-500 dollars. To others it's 2-3 thousand dollars. You really need to pick a number that is close to what you want to spend. Otherwise no one will be able to help you. You can go from a SKS that is 150 bucks to an AR that is 3K+. See where i'm going with this.....we need more info.:)

I totally understand where you are headed, but a $3k rifle doesn't belong in a thread about looking for a cheap gun.

So cost is the only factor in performance? I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I'm looking for the performance bargain. I want to avoid the thought of "this one costs $100 more than that one, so it must be better"

To comply with the request, I want to be frugal, I don't want to buy a cheap piece of junk... I WONT spend more than $800-900, and prefer to spend $500-ish.

banter aside, I am grateful for the reply.

[hopeitsfast]

If it was me, for $500 it would be an AK. You could get a used AK and some ammo for $500 bucks. I doubt you'd get a good AR for the money, unless you found a smoking deal. Plus the ammo is more money.

[g-unit]

If it was me, for $500 it would be an AK. You could get a used AK and some ammo for $500 bucks. I doubt you'd get a good AR for the money, unless you found a smoking deal. Plus the ammo is more money.

That's why I'm a little hesitant to say I would only spend $500, cause if an $800 AR is worth spending $300more on that's what I want to know. Part of this is figuring out how much money to save up.

Are there issues with running an AK that a guy should know? I'd like to factor that into the equation.

I've shot an AR in "position" matches, but never a tactical match. Never fired an AK. Shot an SKS from a bench, it shot well, had been converted to mag fed.

[boganz45]

Sorry that point was "middle of the road" performance. I'm looking for the best buy, not necessarily the best performance.

Lemme 'splain, if a fella had to choose between a corvette and a ZR1 corvette, but in a race a corvette will perform 80-90% as well as the ZR1 but costs 1/2 as much. I want the corvette not the ZR1.

I'm thinking this is harder than just lining up the possible guns by cost and picking the middle one... hence the question.

I get what you are getting at but it varies so much between rifle types and brands it is hard to say. A S&W M&P AR-15 can be had for $800 and this is a nice bang-for-the-buck rifle, but it is $300 more than your older AK, which is also a good deal. Either will work but if it were me I'd rather get the AR. Have you shot both? Which do you prefer?

[boganz45]

From the discussion we had, I thought distances for the carbine portions were less than 75 yards.

The rifle portions of 3-Guns are almost always 100 yards and less (e.g. one stage will be or have a 100 yard prone while 2 or 3 other stages will be varying targets from 5 yards to 45 yards, etc.).

[boganz45]

That's why I'm a little hesitant to say I would only spend $500, cause if an $800 AR is worth spending $300more on that's what I want to know. Part of this is figuring out how much money to save up.

Are there issues with running an AK that a guy should know? I'd like to factor that into the equation.

I've shot an AR in "position" matches, but never a tactical match. Never fired an AK. Shot an SKS from a bench, it shot well, had been converted to mag fed.

Whether it's "worth" $300 is a subjective call - this you must decide. You can get the AK for around 5 or the AR for around 8 - both will work fine and get the job done as long as you can shoot 'em. Which platform do you prefer? No issues I know of running an AK in 3-Gun assuming you can shoot it well. The only disadvantages to the AK would be the greater recoil and slightly decreased accuracy. However there are people with AKs who shoot better than people with ARs; it is all what YOU want and what YOU are comfortable with. I'm not an AK guy but if buying one make sure the sights are not canted, the parts are all solid, the gun dry fires fine (function check the gun), etc. Hopefully postban will see this and offer more input on shooting AKs in competition. If going AR I can offer more perspective, as well as some others here. Go to a competition and watch (usually free to the public) to get an idea or shoot one and borrow rifle/s from friends.

[TFin04]

Is there a handful of key modifications to make to an AK?

Joey nailed it.

AK 74
Ultimak tube
Aimpoint micro or Comp M series
Tapco G2 trigger

Glass isn't needed but is a huge force multiplier in competitions, training, and real life. Anybody who says otherwise is full of it.

[TFin04]

-If you go the AK-47 rout for 3 gun use you'll probably just end up wishing you would have bought an AR

Why?

[RSF]

Why?



well you know there ***** non accurate they are slow to load and they smell funny..


I mean jeesh off ahand we were shooting poppers with folder at 100 yards the other day like mad and oh my Krebs gun sucks ballls too cant do well at 200 yards with it at all.........


with all do respect to your service you seen there to what some of us own here is night and day

[RECON762WT]

Try looking into a AR build...you will get a lot more bang for your buck. If you’re leaning towards AK it might be lacking in the accuracy department. It is true that most ranges only shoot out to 100yds but there are also bowling pin/4” steel size TGT's at 50yds-75yds that prove harder than the larger TGT's at 100yds. There is a reason about 90% of people shoot AR's at 3 guns...there great for it and probably the best platform out there for this sport. People also use other stuff, but I rarely see the “others” ending up that competitive with the AR platforms. Please don't start the AK this AK that...I know a guy who shots an AK better than Chuck Norris stuff.

[TFin04]

I rarely see the “others” ending up that competitive

Here is the root issue. It's the dancer, not the pole.


you will get a lot more bang for your buck

How?

[EricF517]

Don't worry about the glass all too much off the get go. Glass is always nice but you need to learn to use iron sights effectively first. Irons will never have a battery die.

[RSF]

Don't worry about the glass all too much off the get go. Glass is always nice but you need to learn to use iron sights effectively first. Irons will never have a battery die.


irons suck in low light
irons suck in the rain
irons suck when bright sun is on them or behind them changing POI

Aimpoint s and trijicons rule. 4 years + battery life and some no batts..

[RECON762WT]

Here is the root issue. It's the dancer, not the pole.

Hey man I know your proud you can shoot your AK...Great...just about everyone on the internet knows you think AK's are the ****... I get it. But this guy doesn’t sound like a firearms instructor. I am just trying to point him in the right direction. Ak's are a great firearm...AR's still rule the 3 gun arena. If AK's were the best firearm to shoot a three gun people would be overwhelmingly using them.

[EricF517]

irons suck in low light
irons suck in the rain
irons suck when bright sun is on them or behind them changing POI

Aimpoint s and trijicons rule. 4 years + battery life and some no batts..

I look at it as the same way an old indian told me when I said that I wanted to learn how to shoot a bow and hunt. He loaned me his recurve with nothing on it other than a flimsy plastic arrow rest. He told me to master that before I put anything on it that would "help" me shoot better. "You need to master you instincts first" was his reasoning. Granted I lost about $60 in arrows but once I figured it out I was hitting a target out to 25yds. After the first year hunting with it I graduated to a compound and was hitting with ease. I look at it the same way as a rifle. Start with the bare minimum before making it easy.

[RSF]

agree.

[RECON762WT]

irons suck in low light
irons suck in the rain
irons suck when bright sun is on them or behind them changing POI

Aimpoint s and trijicons rule. 4 years + battery life and some no batts..
Aimpoints/Eotech's suck when they
-fall and break
-run out of batteries
-salt water gets in them and corrodes everything and don't work
-windange/elevation knobs get sheered off
-batteries corrode and don't work
-mount snaps (wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it)
-just stop working randomly (eotech)

[TFin04]

Hey man I know your proud you can shoot your AK...Great...just about everyone on the internet knows you think AK's are the ****... I get it. But this guy doesn’t sound like a firearms instructor. I am just trying to point him in the right direction. Ak's are a great firearm...AR's still rule the 3 gun arena. If AK's were the best firearm to shoot a three gun people would be overwhelmingly using them.
You still haven't provided any factual info as to what makes an AR better. "Other people use them" is not a valid reason.

You are also grossly misunderstanding their accuracy capability as well.


Aimpoints/Eotech's suck when they
-fall and break
-run out of batteries
-salt water gets in them and corrodes everything and don't work
-windange/elevation knobs get sheered off
-batteries corrode and don't work
-mount snaps (wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it)
-just stop working randomly (eotech)

EoTech's suck, that I agree with.

We also have to consider the target market we are talking about here. A competition shooter CONUS has next to nothing in common with somebody overseas. Salt water, batteries, mounts snapping off, etc are non issues unless you are using an ARMS mount.

You say that AR's are the best rifle to get because that's what all the top 3 gunners are using, then say to use iron sights. I'm sorry, but aren't all the top 3 gunners using some sort of glass as well? Inconsistent logic there.

[RSF]

Aimpoints/Eotech's suck when they
-fall and break
-run out of batteries
-salt water gets in them and corrodes everything and don't work
-windange/elevation knobs get sheered off
-batteries corrode and don't work
-mount snaps (wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it)
-just stop working randomly (eotech)



eotech more so than aimpoints having seen an M$ aimpoint with a flashbang strapped to it and detonated then turned backon and ran on gun with repeat zero...Humm/

there was an issue with knobs on comp c units doing that,
aimpoint better in salt water. there are ways to protect it there seals are good for that.( i saw one sitting in a salt tank for a 24 hour period then used no issue)

eotech nahhh not so much i think

mounts One word LARUE

I have seen irons knoked out of zero a2 knobs busted as well there are +/-to both eotech is way more prone to failure.

I have seen acogs with holes in them and aimpoint bounced off ranges and steel plates and more than you can think of and work fine.

but again ... see more High speed unit running them than irons dont you?

yeap **** breaks as well as irons and irons suck more then RDS/or ACOGS



eotech isisue is due to recoil and battery spring compression and **** life span of batts and bad coatings the new xps line not to bad so far.

[RECON762WT]

Irons vs. Red dot: I was just refuting your irons suck in rain, light, dark, ect…they have weaknesses comment. So do ALL optics…everything fails at some point. Being efficient in your irons first and foremost “I believe will make you a better shooter.” I see your flash bang statement and raise you a slammed in car door and didn’t work anymore statement. The point being stuff breaks, but your Irons usually break last. Yep high speed units do use all the great optics, but they start off at a crawl with Irons before they graduate to that level. Also never made the comment that “you should use Iron sights for 3 gun” or correlated that to “that’s what the top 3 gunner’s use”. Every 3 gun I have shot almost everyone uses AR’s it doesn’t matter if it was the first or last place finisher. Agreeing it is the “stripper not, not the poll” These people use every type of optic and sight under the sun on their rifles…that’s more of a preference for the shooter and may determines what class they fall into. Many skilled shooters choose to use irons or optics…as well as unskilled shooters using their optics as a crutch.
I’m not Miss understanding the accuracy of the AK. They have a shorter sight radius than an AR, harder recoiling round and gas system, usually poorer quality BBL, different ballistics, less refined sights, less refined trigger pull…I own and shoot both. Most of these deficits are the reason why the AR is inherently more accurate weapon system. Once again you can list your accomplishments with your AK, and I believe you. With practice accuracy and proficiency are achievable, but this thread is about a shooter getting into 3 guns and when it comes down to it I believe that an AR is probably the better bet over an AK with a newer shooter behind the trigger. Going with the AR would provide the shooter with a good platform to do lots of later upgrades; trigger springs, new BBL’s, tons of sight options, all the stocks and grips, compensators, the ability to change calibers easily, plus all the upgrades directly made for 3 gun competition. There are hundreds of more options available for an AR over an AK. This being said I can’t put myself in the mindset of Mr. G-UNIT. When it comes down to shooting matches that cost $100-$200+ the cost difference between an AR and AK seem that much smaller…Shoot in April with an AK…or save the money and shoot in May with an AR?

[boganz45]

irons suck in low light
irons suck in the rain
irons suck when bright sun is on them or behind them changing POI

Aimpoint s and trijicons rule. 4 years + battery life and some no batts..

No doubt Aimpoints are great. However, do you logically think someone who wants to stay on the cheap for a rifle i.e. buy one for around $500 is going to then turn around and drop another $500 on glass?

[g-unit]

I look at it as the same way an old indian told me when I said that I wanted to learn how to shoot a bow and hunt. He loaned me his recurve with nothing on it other than a flimsy plastic arrow rest. He told me to master that before I put anything on it that would "help" me shoot better. "You need to master you instincts first" was his reasoning. Granted I lost about $60 in arrows but once I figured it out I was hitting a target out to 25yds. After the first year hunting with it I graduated to a compound and was hitting with ease. I look at it the same way as a rifle. Start with the bare minimum before making it easy.

That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for, I don't need all the whizbangs yet. I would like to own some form of a "tactical" rifle, and I want to shoot a few three guns. I'm not going to pretend that I'll be going pro soon, or brag to anyone about the awesome sights that I have on my rifle and shotgun. I'm not looking to buy a better score, which never works from what I can tell anyways, I just don't want to buy something that is NOT going to hold the average Joe back. Just for my background, I shot smallbore as a junior for 8years (13years ago) and was an NRA distinguished expert, I realize that doesnt amount to a hill of beans in the 3-gun world... but I have experience shooting... and I made it to that level with a $300 rifle in a $1200 arena. It was fun having an upper end score with the cheapest rifle at Camp Perry.

Tfin,
As far as AK's go is there a lot of accuracy variation between rifles that cause people to say its the pole and not the dancer (sometimes)? If so is there anything to look for when buying one, or do you just have to get lucky? I'll look into the mods you suggest, thanks.

[boganz45]

EoTech's suck, that I agree with.

We also have to consider the target market we are talking about here. A competition shooter CONUS has next to nothing in common with somebody overseas. Salt water, batteries, mounts snapping off, etc are non issues unless you are using an ARMS mount.

You say that AR's are the best rifle to get because that's what all the top 3 gunners are using, then say to use iron sights. I'm sorry, but aren't all the top 3 gunners using some sort of glass as well? Inconsistent logic there.

Not a fan of Eotech or ARMS either. However your logic above in assuming his logic is inconsistent is, apropos, just that. I do not believe anyone here is saying that glass is not beneficial. As addressed previously, one can still compete with others in the same class with just irons and as said there are very skilled shooters who, with only irons, consistently post top times regardless of class. Ultimately it is the shooter not the firearm, which I am sure both of you know. The bottom line is glass is not needed to shoot 3-Gun. Does it make shooting accurately quicker/easier? Absolutely. Do I shoot with glass? Aimpoints all day. Is it absolutely necessary to shoot 3-Guns with glass? Of course not. Would I again shoot 3-Gun with just iron? Obviously yes. One needs to be proficient with all sighting systems one would potentially use. As the preceding post establishes, it is illogical (from reading the OP's posts) that someone who does not own a fighting rifle and only wants to spend around $500 (per his own admission) to try out 3-Gun is going to spend the cost of their rifle if not more on an optic and mount. The point being made was you can use irons to start out and practice with at 3-Gun and compete just fine (no need to alienate people from the sport by suggesting to them that they would neither compete nor enjoy themselves without glass) then get optics later on if you feel the need and/or want to do so. The "AR recommendation" was made per personal preference and based off what most people use in 3-Gun. Not saying I agree with this statement, but I am here arguing logic now. The "using irons is fine recommendation" was made to help new shooters get a feel for the sport without dropping serious coin (can always be done later) and because the OP himself is not looking to invest thousands for the latest HSLD setup. I did not see him say use irons because most 3-Gunners do, because he didn't. There was no correlation between recommendations, as they never followed the same reason of thought, and without such, the two considerations could not have been logically inconsistent.

Now let's get this thread back on topic discussing the "best/cheap 3-gun rifle" and leave the attacks on posters' assumed logic for threads specifically devoted to the art of erudite argumentation.

[boganz45]

That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for, I don't need all the whizbangs yet. I would like to own some form of a "tactical" rifle, and I want to shoot a few three guns. I'm not going to pretend that I'll be going pro soon, or brag to anyone about the awesome sights that I have on my rifle and shotgun. I'm not looking to buy a better score, which never works from what I can tell anyways, I just don't want to buy something that is NOT going to hold the average Joe back. Just for my background, I shot smallbore as a junior for 8years (13years ago) and was an NRA distinguished expert, I realize that doesnt amount to a hill of beans in the 3-gun world... but I have experience shooting... and I made it to that level with a $300 rifle in a $1200 arena. It was fun having an upper end score with the cheapest rifle at Camp Perry.

Tfin,
As far as AK's go is there a lot of accuracy variation between rifles that cause people to say its the pole and not the dancer (sometimes)? If so is there anything to look for when buying one, or do you just have to get lucky? I'll look into the mods you suggest, thanks.

You can compete fine with an AR or an AK. I think it is easier and you have a greater advantage using an AR. Same points hold true with optics. Regardless, either will work, and if you can shoot, will suit you well. It all comes down to preference and cost; get what (the best for your price point) you prefer at the price you are willing to spend.

If leaning towards the AK I'll step aside and let others offer you advice on the best ones for the money as I am not the most knowledgeable regarding AK brands, spec differences, costs, etc. All I know is that I do like Arsenals.

[RSF]

No doubt Aimpoints are great. However, do you logically think someone who wants to stay on the cheap for a rifle i.e. buy one for around $500 is going to then turn around and drop another $500 on glass?


ah i just a used one for 250 bucks. shop around. the deals are there. i was making reference to Ericks post.

more so if dude wishes to say on the cheap then run irons.... or keep looking searching the ad boards and get a smoking deal on something

[boganz45]

ah i just a used one for 250 bucks. shop around. the deals are there. i was making reference to Ericks post.

more so if dude wishes to say on the cheap then run irons.... or keep looking searching the ad boards and get a smoking deal on something

What'd ya find for $250? That is a hell of a price for an Aimpoint almost irrespective of model.

[RSF]

a comp m2

[karcent]

Keep in mind that some clubs will not allow the use of steel core or steel jacket ammunition.
That may have an effect on your rifle/carbine choice.

[karcent]

I have a friend that shoots at Port Huron that uses a Glock and a Kel Tec carbine that uses the same mags. I am set up (for the future) with a Beretta 92F and a CX4 Carbine. My buddy told me that the required carbine shooting distances are minimal. Anyone with experience in SE Michigan with these 3 gun matches?

The shoots at BWSA (Port Huron) generally include one stage with some long shots - 100-150 yards.
You'll have a tough time on those with a 9mm carbine, but if you know your equipment, it's do-able with a pistol cal.

As far as optics go, I won't enter the "these are the best and those suck" competition. Look through as many sight systems as you can and go with looks good to your eyes.

One option that hasn't been mentioned is the 1-4 power scope such as the Millet DMS (about $240.00) or the Trijicon Accupoint ($675ish)
I used an EoTech (I know....they suck, but I like the sight picture and mine hasn't gone down yet) for a long time and recently made the switch to the AccuPoint to help out on those longer shots.

Don't get too tied up in these internet wars. Just get some gear and come on out and shoot. You'll figure out what is best for you as you go and someone will always buy the gear you aren't happy with.

[RSF]

Best would be to bring ammo and ask a few guys to try there rigs out most are very happy to let you .........

we do it at the acts shoots al ot after the match and have play time

[remingtondude58]

I shoot 3 gun at SLOC (http://www.sloc10.com/announecents.htm) and some people use AK's and shoot great. In the October match, the person in second place used open sights.

[fuerstma]

While I don't compete on TFIn04's level, I too run a AK-74 rifle (TFIn04 was once nice enough to loan me his own rifle for a competition as well). I wouldn't trade it for the highest high end AR, simply because I prefer the AK platform. I am comfortable with it, I can change mags with my eyes closed/in the dark, I have my FTF/FTE patterns memorized, etc... I've owned AR's and didn't like them.

Running an AK at a 3 Gun competition you do feel a little bit like an outsider, but I'm OK with that. I generally get quality questions from the guys in my group and I manage to do OK (generally middle of the pack). The ammo is very inexpensive (which is important if you're asking about the price of the rifle, since if you're using the rifle, your cost of ammo will quickly be a bigger investment than the one time rifle cost) which I love and lets me get out to the static range 1-2X a month to shoot.

I'm too cheap/broke for glass, so like most people said, running iron sights are fine. 100 yard shots with an AK, in spite of any internet lore, are competely fine. My girlfriend used my AK at a 3 Gun for the first time, and made 6 100 yard steel shots in 7 attempts, iron sights. She's no Annie Oakley and neither am I.

All that being said, for a total newbie, I'm not sure I would whole heartedly recommend someone who has never run either an AK or an AR to simply go out and buy one to use in competition. Based on my experience the biggest stumbling block a newbie will have is in magazine changes. I much prefer the AK mag mechanism to the AR one (I get much more positive feedback the mag is inserted, and inserted properly), but I think that puts me in the huge minority.

Before I spent any money I'd try to get ahold of the organizer for a 3 Gun event and see if there's a chance I could borrow someones AR (hoping for an AK is probably asking too much) to use at the event, just to get a feel for that. I know I've had guys in my group more than willing to loan me their "backup" AR at competitions, availability won't be the problem. I'd be somewhat hesitant to loan my gun to a total newbie but competitions are safety oriented.

[g-unit]

All good info, thanks guys...

I am a little nervous about just strutting into a match and asking to borrow someone's rifle, especially knowing what they cost. I'm in no hurry though, I'll probably go watch a couple Sunday matches this summer, and try to learn what the hot setup is.

[EricF517]

All good info, thanks guys...

I am a little nervous about just strutting into a match and asking to borrow someone's rifle, especially knowing what they cost. I'm in no hurry though, I'll probably go watch a couple Sunday matches this summer, and try to learn what the hot setup is.

Bring your own rounds and you can use my rifle.