SB 1058 (2010) Establish Full 5-Year CPL License Duration

[PhotoTom]

SB 1058 of 2010 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2010-SB-1058)
Weapons; licensing; renewal of concealed weapons license; establish as applicant's birthday in fifth year following date of issuance. Amends sec. 5l of 1927 PA 372 (MCL 28.425l).

Introduced: 1/14/2010
Last Action: 5/28/2010 Analysis File Added

[zigziggityzoo]

Nice!

[45/70fan]

About time this was addressed. I had applied for my renewal 60 days before my birthday, the board didn't approve until after my birthday. The clerk tried to issue me a 4 yr permit because I had applied before my b-day, I refused and told her it was supposed to be 5 yr. Got some dirty looks but got the extra year as I was supposed to, regardless of when I applied for renewal.

[Tallbear]

Nice!

If I'm reading this correctly, it not so nice.

He stuck out the education waiver on renewals, which means you have to apply like your first CPL and prove you took a class.

[Leader]

If I'm reading this correctly, it not so nice.

He stuck out the education waiver on renewals, which means you have to apply like your first CPL and prove you took a class.

But as I read it, it doesn't require you to review the laws or take a NEW class. You just need your cert from the original class.
I still don't like it, renewals should be good for 5 yrs from expiration of the old license. If you apply 60 days before you get the extension, if the board issues in less then 60 days you still only get 5 yrs. from when your permit expires.

[appliancebrad]

I'm waiting on the legal analysis but I'm concerned if it goes over 60 months the first cycle we could lose our NICS exemption.

[PhotoTom]

If I'm reading this correctly, it not so nice.

He stuck out the education waiver on renewals, which means you have to apply like your first CPL and prove you took a class.

Subsection 7 and 8 are still intact. It was just kind of redundant to reference them when they fall within the same statute. I think this was just housekeeping to remove unnecessary words...

[barber]

Last year when I renewed in Jackson Co, I called ahead and was told not to apply more than 60 days before expiration. So I made my appointment with the third party fingerprinting outfit a few weeks before it expired. Then I found out that it takes about " 60 days " to get your new permit back ! I wasn't real concerned about the lag time between, in fact I developed an attitude about the whole thing.

[PhotoTom]

So I made my appointment with the third party fingerprinting outfit a few weeks before it expired.

L-1 Identity Solutions?

[appliancebrad]

Legal analysis is back and it will screw up our NICS exemption. I'm willing to lose a couple months off my first renewal (problem only occurs once) in order to keep the ability to skip the NICS check.

I'm going to talk with the sponsor.

[PhotoTom]

Legal analysis is back and it will screw up our NICS exemption. I'm willing to lose a couple months off my first renewal (problem only occurs once) in order to keep the ability to skip the NICS check.

I'm going to talk with the sponsor.

Why would it only occur once? The way I read it, it will happen each and every time unless a bill such as this is passed.

[PhotoTom]

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425l


(2) A license to carry a concealed pistol issued or renewed on or after July 1, 2006 is valid until the applicant's date of birth that falls not less than 4 years or more than 5 years after the license is issued or renewed, as applicable. Except as provided in subsections (7) and (8), a renewal of a license under section 5b shall, except as provided in this section, be issued in the same manner as an original license issued under section 5b.

So...take Joe Schmo's CPL that was issued on December 15, 2006. It expires on his birthday in 2011. So let's say his birthday is September 20th...

Next year, Joe applies for a renewal on July 20th (62 days before his birthday/CPL expiration date). The gun board approves and issues Joe's renewal on August 15, 2011. The renewal will expire in 4 years and 36 days on September 20, 2015. Why? Because the renewal is "valid until the applicant's date of birth that falls not less than 4 years or more than 5 years after the license is issued or renewed, as applicable".

Each and every time...

[appliancebrad]

You are correct. I was taking it that it would have an issue date of the previous expiration date but that won't work either.

I'm going to contact the sponsor and see if there is a solution to this that LSB can come up with.

So guys and gals, your input please shall we just get rid of the birthday renewal?

[hopeitsfast]

You are correct. I was taking it that it would have an issue date of the previous expiration date but that won't work either.

I'm going to contact the sponsor and see if there is a solution to this that LSB can come up with.

So guys and gals, your input please shall we just get rid of the birthday renewal?
I vote for a lifetime CPL like Indiana gets. If we are going to have to jump though hoops to get the permit, i'd like to only do it once.

[appliancebrad]

I vote for a lifetime CPL like Indiana gets. If we are going to have to jump though hoops to get the permit, i'd like to only do it once.

And that creates worse problems. The first is we lose reciprocity with a bunch of state. The first would likely be Ohio. Secondly, we'd lose the NICS exemption completely.

Finally, lifetime permits are just not politically possible here in MI.

[donald150]

5 years


Date issued to date expired makes more sense. Forget the Birthday all together.

[hopeitsfast]

The first is we lose reciprocity with a bunch of state. I could live with that, if you couldn't there are a lot of out of state permits you can get.
Secondly, we'd lose the NICS exemption completely. Can you explain? I don't know about this.


Finally, lifetime permits are just not politically possible here in MI.
People use to say the same thig about 'shall issue'. Times are changing, more and more CPLs everyday.

[Joeywhat]

As it stands now the Michigan CPL can be used to exempt someone from a NICS check when buying a firearm. The idea is that the background check needed for obtaining the CPL is just as good as the NICS check, so why do it twice.

Granted, the ONLY dealers I've ever encountered that do that are the small time guys. Any fun shop or big time dealer still runs the check anyways (primarily to CYA).

What I don't understand is why this would effects the NICS exemption.

Quite frankly not having to go through NICS is pretty low on the list of things I care about for CPL's, though. I'm more concerned with reciprocity with more states, shorter times to actually get them, and more time between renewals. I can have a passport for 10 years before renewing, why not a CPL?

[Leader]

You are correct. I was taking it that it would have an issue date of the previous expiration date but that won't work either.

I'm going to contact the sponsor and see if there is a solution to this that LSB can come up with.

So guys and gals, your input please shall we just get rid of the birthday renewal?

Wait until all current licenses have cycled to birthday expiration (we are almost there) then make it same as drivers license, issue is expiration of old license. Renewal can be up to 90 days before expiration.

[PhotoTom]

Since renewals have become more streamlined (no more fingerprinting, faster, etc), a 4 year license (birthday to birthday) would be fine as long as they adjust the price down from $105 to $84.

This accomplishes:
1. Renewals spread-out throughout the year and easy for the applicant to remember.
2. The background check to license expiration is truly less than 5 years for NICS substitution (which may not necessarily be the case now, even with the current legislation).
3. A 1-year (max) advance renewal could (once again) be established and the 5 year (max) NICS provision would still be in effect.

Frankly, the cost should go down even further since there will no longer be any fingerprinting required, there has already been a significant reduction in manual handling/mailing of documents pertaining to application/renewal, etc.

Hell...since the applicant no longer even has to be fingerprinted for renewals...why can't the State come up with an online renewal system (for all 83 Counties) that allow the applicant to do all their own data entry for the renewal, thus further streamlining the process and reducing the workload on the Counties? Once the applicant fills-out and submits the renewal, it would automatically be forwarded to the appropriate County, along with the State/Federal background check results. That would be a huge potential process improvement, especially for the large/populous Counties.

[Quaamik]

I don't like to idea of having to prove you took the class (show a certificate) on renewal.

If you are renewing you obviously had a permit and took the class at some time. Forceing you to show the certificate jst throws up another buerocratic requirment to limit / delay renewals. Some people (how many I don't know) are not going to have a copy of thier permit from 5 years ago (or longer). Those will either have to re-take the class (an unnecessary expense) or will not renew (possibly because they don't have the extra $100 - $200 for another class.

Ditch the b-day renewal if needed. If necessary, ditch the 5 year part and make it "up to 5 years" like it has been. Anything to avoid people having to shell out the added money to re-take a class because they don't have 5 year old paperwork.

[One of Many]

The birthday renewal is a good idea. Very few people forget when their birthday occurs, but people do forget when licenses expire, unless they fall on the birthday.
Figure out how to fix the issues, rather than scrapping a good idea.

It would be possible to have the renewal run from the expiration date of the expiring license until the birthday occurring during the fourth to the fifth year past the current license expiration (not to exceed five years, or be less than four years), and that would solve the issue of exceeding a five year license term, and still give everyone the maximum time on their license. Only the first renewal under that provision would be less than a full five years.

Provide that the current license is extended until the renewal is approved or denied by the gun board, as long as the renewal application is dated between 180 days through 30 days prior to the expiration of the current license. License applications submitted with less than 30 days before the current license expiring would not be automatically extended, and would be allowed to expire until the gun board approved the new license.

The presentation of a current or expired Michigan CPL issued under the training provisions currently in effect, substitutes for presenting the certificate of training.

New licenses expire on the birthday during the fourth to fifth year after issuance, with the license term to be at least four years but not greater than five years.

Any more issues that need to be solved?

[45/70fan]

I don't like to idea of having to prove you took the class (show a certificate) on renewal.

You don't have to take a class for renewal.

For an individual licensed after July 1, 2001, and subsequently applying for a renewal:

Pistol safety training course is not required
Applicant shall present a statement signed by the applicant certifying that he/she has:Some of the boards, Tuscola and Huron Co.s will call you before them if you don't take the renewal class but they still have to issue you a permit as long as you:

Completed at least three (3) hours of review of the pistol safety training course and has at least 1 hour of firing range time in the 6 months immediately preceding the renewal application.

I wish that more people going before these boards would object to this intimidation tactic and treat the people equal as the 14 Amendment requires.

[bsf]

First, I do not want to expend any political capital on this issue that would eventually be wasted if we go to a SOS issue system in the next few years.

Second, I do not like paying for a 5 year license and getting less than a 5 year license. I say keep the current language on date of birth expiration but tweak the extension language if that can be done without losing the NICS exemption.

I am not exactly certain how to make that change. Here is a stab at it, but the sentence structure just sucks.


(4) The expiration date of a license is extended by either 180 days, until the renewal license is issued, or until the renewal license is denied, whichever occurs first, as long as the following conditions are met:
(a) The application for a renewal license is made prior to the expiration date of a license.
(b) The applicant pays the renewal fee at the time the renewal application is submitted.
(c) A license is not revoked prior to expiration.
(d) bla bla Possibly some background check stuff. Since I am not certain how the background check actually occurs, especially now that the fingerprint requirement has changed, I can not address this. Bla bla.

Third, I do not want to expend any political capital on this issue that would eventually be wasted if we go to a SOS issue system in the next few years.




BTW, here is the current subsection (4).


(4) If the concealed weapon licensing board fails to deny or issue a renewal license to the person within 60 days as required under subsection (3), the expiration date of the current license is extended by 180 days or until the renewal license is issued, whichever occurs first. This subsection does not apply unless the person pays the renewal fee at the time the renewal application is submitted and the person has submitted a receipt from a police agency that confirms that a background check has been requested by the applicant.

[PhotoTom]

Status update:
Last Action: 5/28/2010 Analysis File Added (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billanalysis/Senate/htm/2009-SFA-1058-S.htm)

[langenc]

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425l



So...take Joe Schmo's CPL that was issued on December 15, 2006. It expires on his birthday in 2011. So let's say his birthday is September 20th...

Next year, Joe applies for a renewal on July 20th (62 days before his birthday/CPL expiration date). The gun board approves and issues Joe's renewal on August 15, 2011. The renewal will expire in 4 years and 36 days on September 20, 2015. Why? Because the renewal is "valid until the applicant's date of birth that falls not less than 4 years or more than 5 years after the license is issued or renewed, as applicable".

Each and every time...
That is exactly how I got 4 years instead of 5!!

As discussed above-..."the birthday is a good idea..." but if you only get 4 years then you only pay for 4 years.. No private business charges for something you dont get..