CCW CLASSES FOR THE NEEDY

[ZIPGRAVER]

Hi all,

I just posted this on MCRGO's board and am posting it here too just because there are some that don't read the other board anynmore and we are all on the same page on this topic. OK?

"OK gang here I go again. I posted a message to the old board about CCW training for those that couldn't afford it and are in need of a CCW... my daughter for one... and I am posting it again HERE and NOW. She is a single mom, mother of three sons without a job... still and would like to be able to carry a gun concealed but cannot afford the class. She sometimes is in a position that scares her as she has been followed on several occasions and has an abusive ex-husband. If she can get her CCW I will happily give her or get her a suitable gun.

The response I got to the last post before the board went to neverland was that the women's group was planning on something and Ross Dykman did offer to pay for her training himself. That was a fine gesture on his part but not the response I was looking for. Needless to say my daughter, and any other needful person, has so far not been trained and cannot get a CCW beacuse of a lack of money. I am just using my daughter a case in point but I believe there is a real and IMMEDIATE need for this and MCRGO should take control and see that these people are trained... after all isn't that what we are all about?

Here is my suggestion... and please don't take this wrong.. all the instructors that are endorsed by MCRGO all over the state should take one needy person per session and train that person for no fee. I don't know any of the details of the instructors finances but I can't imagine that giving training to one person out of 10 or 12 could possibly hurt anyone financially. If we really believe in the right to keep and bear arms we, as a group, should bend over backwards to see that everyone that is a potential target of violence like a low income, needy person has the capability to carry a gun for self defense. I know many big tough guys that carry $600.00 guns that really aren't much of a target to start with and carry only because they can and not out of fear. It's fearful one's that should be our concern.

Imagine the publicity a generous person would get in the gun community.

Please no flaming. I just posted this to get you all thinking. And don't tell me that I should pay for my daughter... believe me I have and I do. She has 3 BIG sons that have to be fed... need I say more?"

[Bernie]

Very good Zipgraver. Nice post.

I wish somehow, Gary, that you could tell us about your love of old airplanes without getting off the subject too far on this message board. Hey, I had a ride on the Ford Tri-motor based in Kalamazoo about three years ago. About five years ago I had a ride in a 40 or 50,s version plane over the everglades. (tail dragger).

[GreggB]

Actually this is not a bad idea. I realize that the instructors are in business to make a living but this might be an opportunity. I do not know the particulars but I am fairly certain that a "pro bono" class could somehow be deductable on the instructor's tax return. Any lawyers or accountants here that can verify or refute this concept? Just a thought.

[taurus92]

zipgraver

let me know when you have a class. I can help out. I am certified

[Chem_Geek]

If we really believe in the right to keep and bear arms we, as a group, should bend over backwards to see that everyone that is a potential target of violence like a low income, needy person has the capability to carry a gun for self defense. I know many big tough guys that carry $600.00 guns that really aren't much of a target to start with and carry only because they can and not out of fear. It's fearful one's that should be our concern.

Hear, hear! It's the single mother, it's the young graduate student working alone, it's the young father working two jobs trying to make ends meet, who we need to support in getting their CPLs. They're the ones who need it the most!

[ZIPGRAVER]

Very good Zipgraver. Nice post.

I wish somehow, Gary, that you could tell us about your love of old airplanes without getting off the subject too far on this message board. Hey, I had a ride on the Ford Tri-motor based in Kalamazoo about three years ago. About five years ago I had a ride in a 40 or 50,s version plane over the everglades. (tail dragger).

Thanks Bernie...

Yeah I like old planes and old guns and old women... uh... I mean... nevermind. You must have had fun flying around in those old birds but I'll tell ya... AIN'T NOTHING LIKE FLYING IN A B-17! HOOOOOOOO! WHAT A RIDE!! Standing there hanging on to those big 50's, imagining what it must have been like shooting at the ME's and FW's and having them shoot back.. damn.
I'm also helping reatore a B-25 and that's cool. As soon as we get it all set I'm going flying in that sweet thing. EEEEHAAA! :P :P :P :P

[ANIMAL]

A friend of the family had to bail from a B-17 over german occupied france in the dark. said he loved the plane but not the jump.

Pretty sure it was a 17. He told the story to us years ago.

[ZIPGRAVER]

A friend of the family had to bail from a B-17 over german occupied france in the dark. said he loved the plane but not the jump.

Pretty sure it was a 17. He told the story to us years ago.

It could have been a B-24 too. There was a lot more B-24's made than B-17's. They flew faster and had a bigger bomb capacity than the 17 but, hey, they were ugly while the 17 was graceful and sleek. Ford built about a third of the B-24's during WWII at Willow Run Field in what is now the GM Hydramatic plant. Ford developed a way to make the supercharger impellers much easier than originally produced and that allowed a tremendous increase in production of all the aircraft that used superchargers.

There are only a few flying B-24's left in the world today. Many more B-17's. Ford Motor Co. had a flying B-24 and the Yankee Air Force wanted to get it..after all we are there at Willow Run preserving that part of history. Well old Alex Trotman, that dispicable limey that was running Ford a while back, gave that plane, which was built at Willow Run, to the British instead of giving it to the loving care of the YAF.

OK no more rant :D

[Bernie]

As a direct result of Zipgraver's post I have made an offer. One of my daughters wants to take a CCW type of training course. She surely cannot afford to pay the cost. Because of Gary's post I have offered to pay for the daughters training.

[RSF]

bernie, gary you guys get in touch with me! we can set up some dates

[bluesoftail]

This is a great point to think about. Single moms, people on fixed incomes, etc. would have a tough time getting a CPL just because of the costs alone. It would be nice if there was a fund that those of us who can, could donate to. If the instructors donate their time, the fund could finance ammo, range time, etc. Its something to consider.

[Craig]

I jsut happened to see this posting today, was there any luck on it?

[nifman]

If there are any instructors in NW lower Mi giving these classes I would give a hand at no charge, if I have not got something else going on at that time. Right now I am certified for basic pistol, but would get certified for personal protection or home protection, which ever the NRA requires.
I had been instructing at the Manistee club, but I could not do all the classes, and it is all or none with them. I have 5 years under my belt.
If intrested email me at dennisr@chartermi.net. I will need a month or so for the PP and would need 5 students to get my full certification.
Hope to hear from someone in my area.
Dennis Risser

[Wesley w/Glock]

This is a great point to think about. Single moms, people on fixed incomes, etc. would have a tough time getting a CPL just because of the costs alone. It would be nice if there was a fund that those of us who can, could donate to. If the instructors donate their time, the fund could finance ammo, range time, etc. Its something to consider.
I would like to commit here and now... to contribute $100 toward someone's (some people's) training. The offer is good through the end of 2003. Here is how I would like to do it.

I think outright giveaways are a mistake. People need to contribute or they won't have a proper value for what they receive. I propose that someone receiving such aid first perform a service. Perhaps serve at other training classes to assist with gofer jobs or something similar. I'm talking about jobs that ordinarily wouldn't exist but would be beneficial nevertheless. It could be any service at all really as long as it has value to someone or some people. How about the Karate Kid's famous, "...wax on... wax off." :) I would also like to know that the instructor has some type of benevolent program himself.

Therefore, if an instructor I know (or one endorsed by someone I know) will just claim the money I will give it. All he or she needs to do is train (or schedule for training) someone needy who has agreed to some specific task anywhere that same instructor figures out.

[G22]

Very generous offer Wes, :D
I hope someone takes you up on it. 8)

[Wesley w/Glock]

Very generous offer Wes, :D
I hope someone takes you up on it. 8)
I'll follow through with more next year if others follow suit.

[bluethunder]

That's a great idea,Wes. As well as being a generous personal donation. :biggrin:

[CnA]

I'm certified in Personal Protection and would be glad to help out. Wes's generous donation could be used to purchase class materials from the NRA. They are not free.

[DANNY ELLER]

At $6.00 per student for NRA materals the club will not turn any one away who needs training whether they have the money for the class or not. Any one in montcalm county in need get in tuch with me, we are not in it for the money. Our normal cost is $60.00 and that includes the use of our guns and ammo, plus we do the photo for $5.00

[sprink]

Welcome Danny Eller!

[Kouger]

At $6.00 per student for NRA materals the club will not turn any one away who needs training whether they have the money for the class or not. Any one in montcalm county in need get in tuch with me, we are not in it for the money. Our normal cost is $60.00 and that includes the use of our guns and ammo, plus we do the photo for $5.00


and an instructor steps up and is ready to run with it.......awesome

[DANNY ELLER]

Class October 27-29 and shooting when we can any one in need dan

[johnlive]

I've taken one of danny's classes,I rate it an A.If you get the chance take it.

[DANNY ELLER]

Had my first reply to this post tonight. Put him on the list for the next class. We wont go broke may even get a member that has time to participate and help out.

[garyjt]

I know a young nursing student, who wants to carry. She has read Paxton Quigley's book Armed and Female, but she has very little money and cant afford a safety course.

[DANNY ELLER]

WHATS HER LOCATION PUTTING TOGETHER A CLASS FOR JANUARY

[RSF]

danny if you need help iam in

[garyjt]

WHATS HER LOCATION PUTTING TOGETHER A CLASS FOR JANUARY

She lives in southern troy.