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tororider
03-16-2010, 03:30 PM
I believe it is a Canon fireproof safe in the warehouse for $499.

I think it is the same one they have online, just cheaper in the warehouse.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11498662&search=safe&Mo=27&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=4000364&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=safe&Ntt=safe&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&s=1&topnav=&Nty=1&s=1

kevins_garage
03-16-2010, 03:51 PM
Pretty much the same safe as the Centurion/Liberty CN20 at Lowes, except for the elec. lock and cheaper price. Pretty similar to the Stack On/Sentry models carried at Dick's/Dunhams/Sports Authority also. Heck, they may even be made by the same vendor and just branded differently for all of these makers (different paint, different lock - average consumer can't tell the diff anyway).

Not a bad safe for the average gunowner/homeowner, but the "safe snobs" do not care for these "bottom end" models at all. Apparently they are super easy to defeat and the 30 min fire protection is not considered to be adequate (in other words, they are not difficult to breach and contents are likely to be damaged in a fire). The lower end elec. locks can also be finicky and seem to go down more often than the good old fashioned dial locks.

All in all though - better than nothing...

dpgperftest
03-16-2010, 04:11 PM
Pretty much the same safe as the Centurion/Liberty CN20 at Lowes, except for the elec. lock and cheaper price. Pretty similar to the Stack On/Sentry models carried at Dick's/Dunhams/Sports Authority also. Heck, they may even be made by the same vendor and just branded differently for all of these makers (different paint, different lock - average consumer can't tell the diff anyway).

Not a bad safe for the average gunowner/homeowner, but the "safe snobs" do not care for these "bottom end" models at all. Apparently they are super easy to defeat and the 30 min fire protection is not considered to be adequate (in other words, they are not difficult to breach and contents are likely to be damaged in a fire). The lower end elec. locks can also be finicky and seem to go down more often than the good old fashioned dial locks.

All in all though - better than nothing...

1000x better than a cabnet

hopeitsfast
03-16-2010, 06:02 PM
I have a larger version of that safe and i like it for the price. It's pretty basic with a convertible interior,S&G electric lock and a 2 plug power source inside. I'm sure it's not the greatest thing in the world by far, but at 600lbs and plenty of storage, for the price i'm ok with it.

I'm sure a determined crook could get into it with the right tools, but i'm sure it will stop the typical teenage smash and grabber. Someday i'll get a better one and then this one will get used for something else.

Cannon does have a great warranty though if that matters.

dpgperftest
03-16-2010, 06:10 PM
I have a larger version of that safe and i like it for the price. It's pretty basic with a convertible interior,S&G electric lock and a 2 plug power source inside. I'm sure it's not the greatest thing in the world by far, but at 600lbs and plenty of storage, for the price i'm ok with it.

I'm sure a determined crook could get into it with the right tools, but i'm sure it will stop the typical teenage smash and grabber. Someday i'll get a better one and then this one will get used for something else.

Cannon does have a great warranty though if that matters.

600 lbs empty right .more like 1200 lbsnow lol?

Godfather JAM
03-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Any made in USA? I know the Costco one is from China.

dpgperftest
03-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Any made in USA? I know the Costco one is from China.

thay all are .the ones made in the usa 3k and up

ZYA_LTR
03-17-2010, 05:21 AM
Head to Gander Mountain, they carry Liberty Gun Safes....AMerican made, lifetime warranty, and very affordable....Way less than 3k.

kevins_garage
03-17-2010, 08:31 AM
Head to Gander Mountain, they carry Liberty Gun Safes....AMerican made, lifetime warranty, and very affordable....Way less than 3k.
Liberty and Cannon both have several lines of product - usually one or more "premium" offerings and at least one "value" offering. Cannon and Liberty also have "retail" lines that many say are nothing more than a "branded" line of safes made by a third party (some in the USA and others offshore).

The bottom end retail lines are branded with the good name of the manufacturer, but are not typically the best product. Sort of like how the Cadillac Cimarron was branded as a "Cadillac", but most people knew it was nothing more than a gussied up Chevy Cavalier...

This safe for $499 is not really a great price or deal. The going rate for these low end ~20 cubic foot 30 min fire rated safes is only $500-600 and you can get them on sale at places like Dick's/Dunham's/Sports Authority without having to buy a membership.

They are not all made in China either. Liberty has a 12 cubic foot safe at Lowe's that is made in China, but their 20 cubic foot offering at Lowe's was marked made in the USA and retails for ~$700 typically. They are decent safes for the money, but don't delude yourself into thinking they are impenetrable or will preserve their contents in a raging house fire. There are safe companies online that have done videos to show just how easy the bottom end retail safes are to breach and most do not last more than a couple of minutes and only require a pry bar and small hammer to breech - in other words, a typical smash and grab attempt. Take it FWIW - I am not advocating for or against them - just providing the info.

If you want something better than a non-fire rated RSC, a low end Cannon/Liberty is a better alternative that won't break the bank, but they are far from 1000x better than a non-fire rated RSC. If you have a substantial collection or other stuff you want to protect from theft/fire and would like a 60 minute fire rating and something that will take time/effort for a BG to breech, many consider a Sturdy safe in the $1500-2000 range to be the minimum starting point.

There's a lot more to safes than just the name on the front, the price, and the features. Whether you get a Liberty or a Cannon or whatever else, I would suggest doing some real research on your own and make sure you know what you are looking at so you can compare price and features as apples-to-apples as possible...

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 09:17 AM
This safe is probably fine to protect valuables from from run of the mill break-ins and burgalaries. If it's mounted to the stud wall or floor, it will do its job.

This safe is NOT fine for any sort of serious fire protection. The rating provided in the specs states that it has 30 minutes of fire protection, but doesn't say at what temperature. Without stating temperature AND duration of fire protection, the 30 minute rating is meaningless.

The fact that they don't list the temp rating is a bad thing. If it were a good thing, they'd promote it like more expensive safe makers do.

I've worked a lot of house fires, and in my experience, there isn't a safe on the market that can guarantee that your valuables won't burn up in a house fire. Fire protection is about duration and intensity of the fire. There are a million factors that contribute to duration and intensity. Some you can control, some you can't. How far away do you live from a fire department? What time of day is it? What are the weather conditions? What is the fire load in your home? (E.g. do you keep stacks of newspapers or chords of wood in the garage?)

Most of us live in areas that are protected by un-staffed FDs. That means that from the time a fire is called in and dispatch issues a page, it might be 5-7 minutes before the first truck rolls. Depending on the location of the fire, it might be another 10 minutes to get there. Setup for water flow will take another few minutes.

Consider that a free burning fire, with sufficient fuel, can double in size ever 60 seconds. If your home was vacant and your neighbor saw flames and called it in, a 30 minute fire rated safe is probably already toast.

If you're worried about fire protection for your safe, buy something rated around 2000 degrees for 90 minutes. Then store the safe on an outer wall on a ground level floor, as far away as possible from the most likely sources of ignition, such as the kitchen, the furnace, or common living areas where electrical usage is the highest and most commonly overloaded.

Safes with high fire ratings are more expensive than the one listed above, but they don't have to break the bank. They can easily be acquired for $1200 to $1500. Or you can watch for them used. You don't see them come up frequently, but resale on safes is typically horrible, and there are deals to be found. I'd keep an eye on craigslist.

kevins_garage
03-17-2010, 09:28 AM
This safe is probably fine to protect valuables from from run of the mill break-ins and burgalaries. If it's mounted to the stud wall or floor, it will do its job.

This safe is NOT fine for any sort of serious fire protection. The rating provided in the specs states that it has 30 minutes of fire protection, but doesn't say at what temperature. Without stating temperature AND duration of fire protection, the 30 minute rating is meaningless.
It's an entry level/bottom end fire safe - one layer of 5/8 wall board all the way around, maybe 2 on top and 2 on the door - fire rating is likely 30 minutes @ 1200-1400°F like all the other entry level/bottom end fire safes.

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 09:46 AM
It's an entry level/bottom end fire safe - one layer of 5/8 wall board all the way around, maybe 2 on top and 2 on the door - fire rating is likely 30 minutes @ 1200-1400°F like all the other entry level/bottom end fire safes.

yup, and flash-over (fully involved) in a fire occurs at 900-1000 degrees. a 30 minute rating at 1200 degrees might sound good on paper, but it's probably only going to protect your valuables if the fire is well contained and extinguished quickly. But that's not the point of buying a safe for fire protection. A fire that's well contained and quickly extinguished probably wouldn't leave anything more than soot on your guns in a plain old cabinet. Fire safes are sold on the merits of catastrophic fires, and in that situation, this one doesn't offer much protection.

Keep in mind, I'm not suggesting it's not an entirely adequate safe for securing your valuables from theft and keeping guns from your kids. I'm only saying that realistically, the fire rating on this safe is intended to give you peace of mind, not protect your valuables from a serious fire.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 03:27 PM
Head to Gander Mountain, they carry Liberty Gun Safes....AMerican made, lifetime warranty, and very affordable....Way less than 3k.


that was just a # I pulled out of ma AZZ .I should say over $1000 that will hold 24 to 28 guns and if some one finds them i will be bumded

sse
03-17-2010, 03:58 PM
I wonder about the wisdom of fireproofing property, whether guns or anything else. You can get insurance. If heirlooms, these are a common loss in any fire and I doubt much can be done to protect them from damage in case of fire.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 04:00 PM
I wonder about the wisdom of fireproofing property, whether guns or anything else. You can get insurance. If heirlooms, these are a common loss in any fire and I doubt much can be done to protect them from damage in case of fire.

I agree

kevins_garage
03-17-2010, 04:34 PM
I wonder about the wisdom of fireproofing property, whether guns or anything else. You can get insurance. If heirlooms, these are a common loss in any fire and I doubt much can be done to protect them from damage in case of fire.
You'd be surprised how well a good safe can perform in a fire.

As far as the wisdom of fireproofing property, well I guess it depends on the individual.

Some people may be required to at least make an attempt at fireproofing (and securing) certain property in order to get insurance coverage, or at least get a better rate than someone that took no precautions (that's just underwriting 101 - the higher the risk, the higher the premiums).

To others, a safe may just be a placebo and the thought is all that counts - no one ever thinks that their house is actually going to burn down or be burglarized, so any safe is better than no safe.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 04:36 PM
You'd be surprised how well a low end safe can perform in a fire too

sse
03-17-2010, 07:33 PM
Put a roast and some veggies in there with the guns.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 07:41 PM
Put a roast and some veggies in there with the guns.

I am not trying to be a smart AZZ
If the Dearborn FD can't get to your house in 45 minutes thare will be nothing left no mater what kind of save you have.

I have seen $18 fire boxes burn for 20+ minutes in a structure fire and money and credit cards fully in tacked

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 07:42 PM
yummmmmmm roast:naughty:

kevins_garage
03-17-2010, 08:08 PM
I am not trying to be a smart AZZ
If the Dearborn FD can't get to your house in 45 minutes thare will be nothing left no mater what kind of save you have.

I have seen $18 fire boxes burn for 20+ minutes in a structure fire and money and credit cards fully in tacked
I'm not trying to be a smart AZZ either, but I hope Dearborn FD doesn't even respond to a fire at my house, let alone show up if it is burning...

Those small fire safes for documents and such are designed differently than a real safe. Comparing them to a large gun safe is just ridiculous...:shake:

Byron
03-17-2010, 09:02 PM
Put a roast and some veggies in there with the guns.
and your insurance policy, too!

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 09:12 PM
I'm not trying to be a smart AZZ either, but I hope Dearborn FD doesn't even respond to a fire at my house, let alone show up if it is burning...

Those small fire safes for documents and such are designed differently than a real safe. Comparing them to a large gun safe is just ridiculous...

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 09:37 PM
I am not trying to be a smart AZZ
If the Dearborn FD can't get to your house in 45 minutes thare will be nothing left no mater what kind of save you have.

I have seen $18 fire boxes burn for 20+ minutes in a structure fire and money and credit cards fully in tacked

the problem is that 70% of the FD's in the U.S. are paid on call/volunteer (although there's not a lot of true volunteers left these days - most everybody gets some sort of stipend).

If you live in Dearborn, that's great - your FD response will probably be excellent. But that's not the case for a good portion of the population, who aren't covered by full time departments.

The reality is that if your home is protected by an on-call department, it's not unrealistic for 20-30 minutes to pass between fire ignition, spread, call-in, dispatch, response, and the commencement of fire suppression. Its the price we pay for living in rural areas (and sometimes not so rural areas) and cutting fire/police funding every time there's a budget crisis. (that last part is a rant for a separate post.)

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
the problem is that 70% of the FD's in the U.S. are paid on call/volunteer (although there's not a lot of true volunteers left these days - most everybody gets some sort of stipend).

If you live in Dearborn, that's great - your FD response will probably be excellent. But that's not the case for a good portion of the population, who aren't covered by full time departments.

The reality is that if your home is protected by an on-call department, it's not unrealistic for 20-30 minutes to pass between fire ignition, spread, call-in, dispatch, response, and the commencement of fire suppression. Its the price we pay for living in rural areas (and sometimes not so rural areas) and cutting fire/police funding every time there's a budget crisis. (that last part is a rant for a separate post.)

Dam lil Lyon TWP has a 3 minete response time w/ volunteer .

but i see what your saying

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 09:51 PM
Dam lil Lyon TWP has a 3 minete response time w/ volunteer .

but i see what your saying

Yeah, our first truck is typically rolling within 4 minutes of the initial page. but there are a lot of factors that go into that. we can only drive so fast to the opposite corner of our coverage area, and weather, time of day, road conditions, etc., all factor into that response time.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 09:54 PM
Yeah, our first truck is typically rolling within 4 minutes of the initial page. but there are a lot of factors that go into that. we can only drive so fast to the opposite corner of our coverage area, and weather, time of day, road conditions, etc., all factor into that response time.

still not bad .

hopeitsfast
03-17-2010, 09:54 PM
Yeah, our first truck is typically rolling within 4 minutes of the initial page. but there are a lot of factors that go into that. we can only drive so fast to the opposite corner of our coverage area, and weather, time of day, road conditions, etc., all factor into that response time.
Is there a site where you can find the response times of certain cities? I'd love to know my cities.

dpgperftest
03-17-2010, 09:56 PM
Is there a site where you can find the response times of certain cities? I'd love to know my cities.
not sure its part of The fire response time that has to do with your fire insurance rating for the city /TWP thats a state requires

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 10:02 PM
Is there a site where you can find the response times of certain cities? I'd love to know my cities.

I'm not aware of a site, I'd start by simply calling the department that protects your area. They should be able to provide the info pretty easily, but if for some reason they can't/won't tell you, your county/city dispatcher will definitely have records. Trucks will check in route to inform both dispatch and other responders of their status, and 911 dispatch will record and log every direct radio communication and note when trucks roll.

BigIrish
03-17-2010, 10:04 PM
not sure its part of The fire response time that has to do with your fire insurance rating for the city /TWP thats a state requires

response time, infrastructure (ie, wet and dry hydrants), apparatus, and equipment all factor into the insurance rating for a given jurisdiction.

sse
03-18-2010, 09:23 AM
If you live in Dearborn, that's great - your FD response will probably be excellent.
This is true.

These houses built 50+ years ago were built with wood that contains a lot of resin. When they get going its more of an explosion.

PhotoTom
03-18-2010, 10:13 AM
I keep opening this thread thinking I am going to learn more about the safe at Costco for some reason...

- Admin

PhotoTom
03-18-2010, 10:15 AM
I believe it is a Canon fireproof safe in the warehouse for $499.

I think it is the same one they have online, just cheaper in the warehouse.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11498662&search=safe&Mo=27&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=4000364&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=safe&Ntt=safe&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&s=1&topnav=&Nty=1&s=1

According to a Costco email I received, the online $579 price includes delivery.

kevins_garage
03-18-2010, 10:40 AM
I keep opening this thread thinking I am going to learn more about the safe at Costco for some reason...

- Admin
That's funny - what more were you hoping to learn about this safe? It's a basic, entry level safe and it is priced accordingly. It is not a super deal - basically $5-600 is the going rate for this type/size of safe. It may be made in China, but I would go to a store and look it over for a marking just to be sure. I have a same/similar sized "bottom end" Liberty safe that is made in the USA (mine didn't come with a $5 power strip included though, but the hole for it was there). I also have a smaller safe that is made in China for Liberty. Neither is highly secure, nor terribly fire resistant. I got a helluva deal on mine, so it was a no brainer to pick them up as "extras"...


According to a Costco email I received, the online $579 price includes delivery.
It also says "Shipping & handling included" right under the price on the product web page, plus the Shipping & Terms tab also indicates curbside delivery is included...

BigIrish
03-18-2010, 02:24 PM
That's funny - what more were you hoping to learn about this safe? It's a basic, entry level safe and it is priced accordingly. It is not a super deal - basically $5-600 is the going rate for this type/size of safe. It may be made in China, but I would go to a store and look it over for a marking just to be sure. I have a same/similar sized "bottom end" Liberty safe that is made in the USA (mine didn't come with a $5 power strip included though, but the hole for it was there). I also have a smaller safe that is made in China for Liberty. Neither is highly secure, nor terribly fire resistant. I got a helluva deal on mine, so it was a no brainer to pick them up as "extras"...


It also says "Shipping & handling included" right under the price on the product web page, plus the Shipping & Terms tab also indicates curbside delivery is included...

This.

There's not much more to say about a safe at this level outside of the fact that if an individual can manage to scrape together another $400 to $600, they could buy a safe with better security (locking mech, dial, etc) and fire rating. if they can't scrape the extra money together, this isn't much better or worse than any other $500 - $600 safe.

dpgperftest
03-18-2010, 03:20 PM
response time, infrastructure (ie, wet and dry hydrants), apparatus, and equipment all factor into the insurance rating for a given jurisdiction.

Basically yes

dpgperftest
03-18-2010, 03:22 PM
This.

There's not much more to say about a safe at this level outside of the fact that if an individual can manage to scrape together another $400 to $600, they could buy a safe with better security (locking mech, dial, etc) and fire rating. if they can't scrape the extra money together, this isn't much better or worse than any other $500 - $600 safe.

bingo .

if thy want it thay will get it