Where to place a gun safe in the home: house fires

[BigIrish]

Since there's a dedicated space on the boards now for safe storage of guns, I thought I'd pull up an old post that I'd made last year about choosing a location for your gun safe in the house, with particular emphasis on house fires. I don't claim to be an expert on the issue, but I am a firefighter and I have some experience first hand seeing how homes burn.

At any rate, I thought it would be useful for anyone adding a safe to their home, and I'm sure others have good ideas about safe placement/location as well. This was my post on safe location from a fire perspective:

There are a lot of conisderations to weigh on where you'd like to put a gun safe. There is no perfect solution, and eventually you have to decide what's important to you.

That said, I've worked enough house fires to know that I would never put a safe of any size on the second floor. My guess is that, structurally, it would be fine under normal circumstances. But in a house fire, there's no sweet spot that will prevent your safe from winding up on the bottom floor.

Strictly from a fire perspective, I see two optimal places for your safe. Bear in mind that prolonged heat exposure will damage the contents no matter where you put it.

First and foremost, I'd put it in the corner of the garage furthest from your house (assuming it's attached). I'd bolt it to the floor and then I'd build a closet around it. Depending on the fire rating of the safe, that will give you the best chances of the contents surviving. It doesn't mean that it won't be exposed to 1000+ degree temperatures. It just means that it stands a better chance of being exposed to those temps for the shorter amount of time.

Building a closet around the safe when stored in the garage on an outer wall also adds more fire protection (in addition to covering it from prying eyes) in that drywall is fire resistant and will act as a temporary fire stop.

A word of warning (also good advice for fires in general): keep the fire load low. The more junk you have near or throughout the structure, the hotter and longer it will burn. People tend to fill their garages to the brim with plenty of combustibles, including chemicals. Recycle or dontate what you don't use. Put the rest in the trash and keep a clean home/garage.

If you must have it in the house, IMO, the next best place is the bottom floor, on an exterior wall. If that's the basement, so be it. It'll be exposed to more heat, but in the event of a structural collapse, it's much more likely to remain standing - especially if it's in a closet supported by a stud wall. A safe that remains standing won't jar the contents like one that has fallen through the floor, and although it won't prevent water from getting inside, it'll fill from the bottom up.

Particularly in houses with basements, in the event of a severe fire, it's not uncommon to have anywhere from 1-3 feet of water standing - sometimes more. A fully involved house fire will consume tens of thousands of gallons of water. Some is converted to steam, and the rest accumulates in the home. A safe that's not already in the basement is likely to wind up there in a bad fire, and a safe laying on it's side can fill almost entirely. A safe standing will protect everything but the butt end of your long gun stocks.

Lastly, in any consideration - basement, first floor, or upper floors, I would focus on putting the safe on an exterior wall as far away from heat sources as possible. Many fires start in furnaces and even more so, in wood stoves. The fire will spread from the source and weaken structural integrity as it spreads. The further it is away from the most likely source of fire, the more time you'll have for firefighters to do their job and potentially save the safe and its contents. Kitchens and common living areas where human error and higher electrical usage collide are other areas where fires are most likely to start.

A safe with fire rating should be on any gun owners must buy list if they care about their guns. Carrying pictures and knick knacks out of a burning house will make your wife cry. Carrying blackened barrels and receivers with no stocks out o a burning house will make most any husband cry.

[wwjmaj]

Thanks for the thoughts.

[ColonelKurtz]

Thanks for the thoughts.

:yeahthat:

[Done Deal]

Good post.

And, for those that discourage folks from placing the safe in an unheated space.....as long as the guns are not exposed to rapid warming....they are just fine in the garage.

[kevins_garage]

Good post.

And, for those that discourage folks from placing the safe in an unheated space.....as long as the guns are not exposed to rapid warming....they are just fine in the garage.

While there is an "environmental" issue with placing a safe in an unheated garage, I think the bigger issue is one of security. A garage is typical more accessible to vehicles than the inside of your home. It would be a lot easier for would be thieves to ram or pull the safe to dislodge it from wherever it is mounted so they can either tip it over and break into it on the spot, or winch it into/onto a vehicle and make off with the whole safe.

[one_fast_ls1]

I guess you'll just have to follow the drag marks than lol. The idea was that nobody would know you had it in the garage- although I do see your point... Guess it depends on the quality of the safe.

[kevins_garage]

I guess you'll just have to follow the drag marks than lol. The idea was that nobody would know you had it in the garage- although I do see your point... Guess it depends on the quality of the safe.
I don't follow your idea of why "nobody would know you had it" just because it was in the garage as opposed to it being inside the house.

[one_fast_ls1]

No, because he mentioned building a closet around it, and hiding it.

[BigIrish]

While there is an "environmental" issue with placing a safe in an unheated garage, I think the bigger issue is one of security. A garage is typical more accessible to vehicles than the inside of your home. It would be a lot easier for would be thieves to ram or pull the safe to dislodge it from wherever it is mounted so they can either tip it over and break into it on the spot, or winch it into/onto a vehicle and make off with the whole safe.

you make a fair point, but in my opinion, a safe of any size is only a deterrent. if someone is willing to ram a vehicle into your garage and uproot it from where it's bolted to the floor/wall, they're willing to forcibly enter your home in a similar fashion.

bear in mind that my post was regarding the issue of fire protection. i'll readily agree that there are other sacrifices made by placing a safe in a garage. my philosophy is that you hide it by building a closet around it, and don't talk about your guns or your safe to anyone but your closest friends, and hope that nobody wants your stuff bad enough that they're willing to go to such lengths to take it.

as far as the heated/unheated issue, i keep a heating element in my safe, along with a couple of refillable tubs of damp-rid. i've never had a problem with the set up, but it's very rare that a gun from the safe makes it into the heated home. any guns that go in the home are already in the home in a separate handgun safe. i suppose results will vary, however, depending on an individual's personal situation.

[kevins_garage]

I wasn't trying to imply that someone would be willing to simply ram into it just because it was in the garage. Once it is found out or known though, a safe in a garage is definitely in an easier place for a burglar to ram with a vehicle or pull from its mounts and make off with. It wouldn't be nearly as easy for that criminal to drive a vehicle into a master bedroom or basement to do the same.

In the end, nothing is 100% secure nor 100% fire safe. One must balance both security and fire safety. The best deterrent is actually not a safe - it is exactly what you said - not talking about what you have... A safe is an after the fact deterrent once a criminal has decided to break into your house...

[dirtyharry]

Great insight. Never thought about the water in the basement.

[Done Deal]

I wasn't trying to imply that someone would be willing to simply ram into it just because it was in the garage. Once it is found out or known though, a safe in a garage is definitely in an easier place for a burglar to ram with a vehicle or pull from its mounts and make off with. It wouldn't be nearly as easy for that criminal to drive a vehicle into a master bedroom or basement to do the same.

In the end, nothing is 100% secure nor 100% fire safe. One must balance both security and fire safety. The best deterrent is actually not a safe - it is exactly what you said - not talking about what you have... A safe is an after the fact deterrent once a criminal has decided to break into your house...

I agree but... the bottom line is, if somebody is determined enough, even the best security measures will only slow somebody down.

Not everybody has room for a safe in their home....and a safe anywhere is betting than no safe.

[kevins_garage]

Not everybody has room for a safe in their home....and a safe anywhere is betting than no safe.
Seriously?

A 20 cubic foot fire safe takes up just under 4 square feet of floor space and a 30 only requires about 5 square feet of floor space. It shouldn't be that difficult to find 4-5 square feet, even in a house/apartment as small as 5-600 square feet...:twocents:

[dpgperftest]

Since there's a dedicated space on the boards now for safe storage of guns, I thought I'd pull up an old post that I'd made last year about choosing a location for your gun safe in the house, with particular emphasis on house fires. I don't claim to be an expert on the issue, but I am a firefighter and I have some experience first hand seeing how homes burn.

At any rate, I thought it would be useful for anyone adding a safe to their home, and I'm sure others have good ideas about safe placement/location as well. This was my post on safe location from a fire perspective:

There are a lot of conisderations to weigh on where you'd like to put a gun safe. There is no perfect solution, and eventually you have to decide what's important to you.

That said, I've worked enough house fires to know that I would never put a safe of any size on the second floor. My guess is that, structurally, it would be fine under normal circumstances. But in a house fire, there's no sweet spot that will prevent your safe from winding up on the bottom floor.

Strictly from a fire perspective, I see two optimal places for your safe. Bear in mind that prolonged heat exposure will damage the contents no matter where you put it.

First and foremost, I'd put it in the corner of the garage furthest from your house (assuming it's attached). I'd bolt it to the floor and then I'd build a closet around it. Depending on the fire rating of the safe, that will give you the best chances of the contents surviving. It doesn't mean that it won't be exposed to 1000+ degree temperatures. It just means that it stands a better chance of being exposed to those temps for the shorter amount of time.

Building a closet around the safe when stored in the garage on an outer wall also adds more fire protection (in addition to covering it from prying eyes) in that drywall is fire resistant and will act as a temporary fire stop.

A word of warning (also good advice for fires in general): keep the fire load low. The more junk you have near or throughout the structure, the hotter and longer it will burn. People tend to fill their garages to the brim with plenty of combustibles, including chemicals. Recycle or dontate what you don't use. Put the rest in the trash and keep a clean home/garage.

If you must have it in the house, IMO, the next best place is the bottom floor, on an exterior wall. If that's the basement, so be it. It'll be exposed to more heat, but in the event of a structural collapse, it's much more likely to remain standing - especially if it's in a closet supported by a stud wall. A safe that remains standing won't jar the contents like one that has fallen through the floor, and although it won't prevent water from getting inside, it'll fill from the bottom up.

Particularly in houses with basements, in the event of a severe fire, it's not uncommon to have anywhere from 1-3 feet of water standing - sometimes more. A fully involved house fire will consume tens of thousands of gallons of water. Some is converted to steam, and the rest accumulates in the home. A safe that's not already in the basement is likely to wind up there in a bad fire, and a safe laying on it's side can fill almost entirely. A safe standing will protect everything but the butt end of your long gun stocks.

Lastly, in any consideration - basement, first floor, or upper floors, I would focus on putting the safe on an exterior wall as far away from heat sources as possible. Many fires start in furnaces and even more so, in wood stoves. The fire will spread from the source and weaken structural integrity as it spreads. The further it is away from the most likely source of fire, the more time you'll have for firefighters to do their job and potentially save the safe and its contents. Kitchens and common living areas where human error and higher electrical usage collide are other areas where fires are most likely to start.

A safe with fire rating should be on any gun owners must buy list if they care about their guns. Carrying pictures and knick knacks out of a burning house will make your wife cry. Carrying blackened barrels and receivers with no stocks out o a burning house will make most any husband cry.


look for gas line dont place under gas line

[Done Deal]

Seriously?



Seriously.

You have never been to my house.

T'ain't no way....

[fbuckner]

recently talked to a fella in Gaines. His home was broke into about a month ago and the thieves took coins,jewelry and his handgun in his night stand. He's 74 years young and lives alone. He went to the store for groceries and came back and it was gone. The State Police told him it was unlikely that they would be back again. They were wrong the thieves came back 10 days later again he was gone and took out his 800 Lb safe with the rest of his firearms inside it. I got to look around at the inside of his house and they wanted it bad. The had enough time to break out drywall instead of using the inner door and took the outside storm and entry door off the hinges and loaded it up.
Garage-house if they want it they will take it.

[kevins_garage]

Seriously.

You have never been to my house.

T'ain't no way....
My mind is going back and forth between the world's smallest house and a huge house that is decorated "hoarder" style...:-)


recently talked to a fella in Gaines. His home was broke into about a month ago and the thieves took coins,jewelry and his handgun in his night stand. He's 74 years young and lives alone. He went to the store for groceries and came back and it was gone. The State Police told him it was unlikely that they would be back again. They were wrong the thieves came back 10 days later again he was gone and took out his 800 Lb safe with the rest of his firearms inside it. I got to look around at the inside of his house and they wanted it bad. The had enough time to break out drywall instead of using the inner door and took the outside storm and entry door off the hinges and loaded it up.
Garage-house if they want it they will take it.
Bolted down? :doh:

Just think, if it was in the garage, it would have been even easier to steal...

[enfield]

Mine weighs 1150 lbs empty, and it ain't empty. It's also insured, safe and contents.

Nothing in it is irreplaceable.

[BigIrish]

My mind is going back and forth between the world's smallest house and a huge house that is decorated "hoarder" style...:-)


Bolted down? :doh:

Just think, if it was in the garage, it would have been even easier to steal...

we'll have to agree to disagree. but that's beside the point anyway. the issue at stake is not where the safe was located, but that thieves were willing to come back and tear through walls to remove it.

just think of what might have happened to him had he been home the next time they came calling intent on stealing a safe. maybe they decide that rather than haul it out of the house, they'll just take turns beating him until he coughs up a combination. maybe they just shoot him with the pistol they stole from him the week before and take their time getting the safe out.

the point being that if someone wants to steal a half ton safe, i'd rather they just go ahead and take it. i'm insured and my stuff isn't worth the confrontation.

[OpenSights]

A word of warning (also good advice for fires in general): keep the fire load low. The more junk you have near or throughout the structure, the hotter and longer it will burn. People tend to fill their garages to the brim with plenty of combustibles, including chemicals. Recycle or dontate what you don't use. Put the rest in the trash and keep a clean home/garage.



I don't remember you being to my house.... and garage.....
I'd like to get a dumpster, the wife thinks there will be a use for it someday.

Great OP!

I have heard of the concern of water damage when your safe is in the basement. I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to water resist (don't think I'll be able to waterproof) the gun/safe room I'm going to build. I'm still in the planning stages, I want to do it right from the start. I'm at the point where I can start, well in May any way.

DING DING! I'll put a floor drain in it with a back water valve! That will at least remove any water that get's into it, there won't be any loose stuff on the floor to plug it off, and as long as I seal the top the only water that could get in would be through the floor, which will be slow as long as the door has no major gaps.

Sorry I was typing and thinking.

[kevins_garage]

we'll have to agree to disagree. but that's beside the point anyway. the issue at stake is not where the safe was located, but that thieves were willing to come back and tear through walls to remove it.

just think of what might have happened to him had he been home the next time they came calling intent on stealing a safe. maybe they decide that rather than haul it out of the house, they'll just take turns beating him until he coughs up a combination. maybe they just shoot him with the pistol they stole from him the week before and take their time getting the safe out.

the point being that if someone wants to steal a half ton safe, i'd rather they just go ahead and take it. i'm insured and my stuff isn't worth the confrontation.
I'm not disagreeing just to disagree - If the safe is bolted down securely inside a house, it is going to be that much harder to get out than if it is not bolted down, or if it were in a garage (bolted down or not). Safes are surprisingly easy to move - even heavy ones - they slide across carpet pretty easily - they slide across hardwood pretty easily - doorways and walls are easy to break for more access as thieves don't care.

If you insure your stuff, then the logical thing to do is not even waste money on a quality fire safe at all - just get a cheap RSC to show that you at least made an attempt to secure the contents and let the insurance take care of it after a fire/burglary.


I have heard of the concern of water damage when your safe is in the basement. I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to water resist (don't think I'll be able to waterproof) the gun/safe room I'm going to build. I'm still in the planning stages, I want to do it right from the start. I'm at the point where I can start, well in May any way.

DING DING! I'll put a floor drain in it with a back water valve! That will at least remove any water that get's into it, there won't be any loose stuff on the floor to plug it off, and as long as I seal the top the only water that could get in would be through the floor, which will be slow as long as the door has no major gaps.

Sorry I was typing and thinking.
In a fire, there is always "loose stuff" that will inevitably fall to the basement and potentially clog up drains or otherwise cause them to drain slower.

[fbuckner]

Regardless of where you put them be sure to anchor them the best you can. Im sure this guy relied on the weight alone and didnt bolt it to the floor.

It's a damn shame you can't have the things you want in life without some slim ball wanting to turn a dime for a piece of rock or a line to snort.

[one_fast_ls1]

If you insure your stuff, then the logical thing to do is not even waste money on a quality fire safe at all - just get a cheap RSC to show that you at least made an attempt to secure the contents and let the insurance take care of it after a fire/burglary.

Man, I hope your joking. I wouldn't want my stuff stolen- just for the fact that the guys doing the steeling could use my stuff in other "illegal activities"...

The harder it is to steel my stuff, the better. I'd rather it take a mack truck to get my stuff, rather than a couple guys lol.

[kevins_garage]

Man, I hope your joking. I wouldn't want my stuff stolen- just for the fact that the guys doing the steeling could use my stuff in other "illegal activities"...

The harder it is to steel my stuff, the better. I'd rather it take a mack truck to get my stuff, rather than a couple guys lol.

My comments were a reply to these comments and although they don't reflect what I would do, I was not joking:


we'll have to agree to disagree. but that's beside the point anyway. the issue at stake is not where the safe was located, but that thieves were willing to come back and tear through walls to remove it.

just think of what might have happened to him had he been home the next time they came calling intent on stealing a safe. maybe they decide that rather than haul it out of the house, they'll just take turns beating him until he coughs up a combination. maybe they just shoot him with the pistol they stole from him the week before and take their time getting the safe out.

the point being that if someone wants to steal a half ton safe, i'd rather they just go ahead and take it. i'm insured and my stuff isn't worth the confrontation.
If one is going to go through the trouble to secure items in a safe and then say they are insured and would rather the thieves just go ahead and take their stuff because it is insured, then logically, there is no point in securing the items in the first place - save the money on a safe and just leave them out so hopefully the thieves will just take them with a minimum of fuss and leave without confrontation...

I basically agree with your comments - secure your stuff and make it hard to get at and just as hard, or harder, to steel the whole safe...

[one_fast_ls1]

Ah... I must've missed what you were commenting on... Understood.

[Havok_Beoulve]

Hmmm, Im lost as far as the cold to heated thing about guns... Someone mind explaining why its a bad idea to take a cold gun into a warm home?

[Bad Monkey]

Hmmm, Im lost as far as the cold to heated thing about guns... Someone mind explaining why its a bad idea to take a cold gun into a warm home?
I try to avoid taking a cold gun into my house just for condensation and rust reasons. If a fire situation I would worry more about stocks cracking and metal warping for fast and extreme temp. changes. I could be wrong but those would be my worries.

[boganz45]

Best fire protection I have found for all of my firearms is insurance. I have all of my firearms and optics insured to their full values. In the event of a fire (or theft or loss), it is reassuring to know that for a few bucks a year they all could be replaced at no cost (less that annual insurance payment). If anyone is interested in low cost, high quality, full coverage firearms insurance, shoot me a PM.

[mechredd]

My safe is in the basement, however it is elevated about 2 feet off the ground and is in a room with very good drainage. This is done to prevent water damage, as my house sits between 2 rivers that are only about a mile apart. The closer one is only about 400 yards away.

[BigIrish]

My comments were a reply to these comments and although they don't reflect what I would do, I was not joking:


If one is going to go through the trouble to secure items in a safe and then say they are insured and would rather the thieves just go ahead and take their stuff because it is insured, then logically, there is no point in securing the items in the first place - save the money on a safe and just leave them out so hopefully the thieves will just take them with a minimum of fuss and leave without confrontation...

I basically agree with your comments - secure your stuff and make it hard to get at and just as hard, or harder, to steel the whole safe...

Yeah, you're misrepresenting my words. but again, that's missing the point.

You seem to be saying that putting a safe in the garage (in a closet, behind lock and key, bolted to cement floor) would somehow motivate would-be thieves to action and make them more likely to attempt a theft, whereas in a house, there's some sort of greater disincentive for them to steal your safe.

That doesn't make sense. If you want to believe that the type of bad guys that are willing to come to your house and tear out a wall in order to steal a half ton safe are going to be more likely to do it because its in a garage versus the interior of the house, that's your prerogative.

But I believe that that men that are willing to come to your home and demolish your walls to steal your safe CARE LITTLE ABOUT WHETHER THE SAFE IS IN THE HOUSE OR THE GARAGE. they're intent on taking your safe and don't care where its located.

Moreover, unless you paint a big red sign on the side of the garage saying "safe located here," how is a thief to know you have a safe at all? The only way for them to know is to have been in your house prior, or to have heard about it from someone that has been in your home. In either situation, if the safe is in a closet, it's out of "public" view and shouldn't be common knowledge.

At the end of the day, we're talking about an extreme circumstance. It's not as if thieves are punching holes in the walls of every house on the block and stealing gun safes.

If you're trying to make the point that there's no perfect place to put a safe where it cannot be stolen, tampered with, or impacted by fire/natural disaster, you'll get no disagreement from me. Armed with that knowledge, it's about playing the odds. Are you more likely to have a portion or all of your home burned in a house fire, or are you more likely to be robbed?

How many people reading this thread personally know someone that has had their half ton safe stolen from their home?

How many people reading this thread personally know someone that has had their home burn down?

Do you have space in your home/garage where you can put a safe in a closet behind a locked door and bolt the safe to the floor/wall?

Readers should answer those questions for themselves and pick their safe location accordingly.

[kevins_garage]

I called several local fire departments around SE Oakland County and every one said that, in their area, fires in attached and detached garages were typically the #1 or #2 location for home fires - the other most common location was kitchens (which is incidentally the #1 location for home fires on a nationwide basis).

As far as where they suggested to put a safe, every single one suggested a basement corner at least a foot off the floor or in a living space as close to a corner of the house as possible - as far away from the kitchen and garage as possible. Most of these were the fire chief or commander that I spoke with, if that makes any difference to you.

I was actually laughed at by more than a few when I asked if a garage would be a good location for a fire safe.

I've said my piece - have fun...

[Done Deal]

I called several local fire departments around SE Oakland County and every one said that, in their area, fires in attached and detached garages were typically the #1 or #2 location for home fires - the other most common location was kitchens (which is incidentally the #1 location for home fires on a nationwide basis).

As far as where they suggested to put a safe, every single one suggested a basement corner at least a foot off the floor or in a living space as close to a corner of the house as possible - as far away from the kitchen and garage as possible. Most of these were the fire chief or commander that I spoke with, if that makes any difference to you.

I was actually laughed at by more than a few when I asked if a garage would be a good location for a fire safe.

I've said my piece - have fun...

A quick review of the OP indicates that he pretty much said the same thing about locations inside residential structures.

Everybody knows that garages are quite often a source of fires, even insurance companies. But for some folks, the fact remains...that a garage location is better than no location and might just be a better place if the structure fire starts in the dwelling itself.

It it the off season around here or what????

[BigIrish]

I called several local fire departments around SE Oakland County and every one said that, in their area, fires in attached and detached garages were typically the #1 or #2 location for home fires - the other most common location was kitchens (which is incidentally the #1 location for home fires on a nationwide basis).

As far as where they suggested to put a safe, every single one suggested a basement corner at least a foot off the floor or in a living space as close to a corner of the house as possible - as far away from the kitchen and garage as possible. Most of these were the fire chief or commander that I spoke with, if that makes any difference to you.

I was actually laughed at by more than a few when I asked if a garage would be a good location for a fire safe.

I've said my piece - have fun...

Well, I'm laughing at you too, but probably not for the same reasons. If you're going to go to such lengths to try and discredit me and prove a point, I suppose I'll tell you what I really think of your opinion.

[Deep breath...]

So if fires in a garage were the number one or two location for a fire, where else could it possibly be?!? In the servant's quarters? The horse stable?

Holy crap - could it be the house!?! Are you honestly telling me that in a that the fire "commanders" that you spoke to told you that for their typical house fire, either the #1 OR #2 source of the fire was either the GARAGE or the HOUSE!?! Brilliant! Were you amazed at their powers of deductive reasoning?

Feel free to operate on the the advice of the fire staff in your area. I can assure you that the garage is not the number 1 source of fires in central Michigan and the HOUSE FIRES THAT I PERSONALLY WORK. Evidently, making a couple phone calls (or at least claiming to have done so) makes you the expert. Thank you for your due-diligence.

Here's a thought...call those FDs back and ask each of them how often they run a water shuttle and how many tenders they require to keep a constant flow of water on a fire. Ask them if they've ever even SEEN a water shuttle in action. Have YOU ever worked a water shuttle? Do you even know what one is?

It might come as a shock to you, but there are a lot of differences between rural and urban firefighting.

The next time you try and do your job-shadowing, try and understand that whole house losses are much more common in areas with paid on call firefighters rather than full time, staffed departments. Un-staffed departments constitute about 70 percent of the fire protection in the United States, and by their nature, take longer to get trucks on scene and fires extinguished. More time to respond = more chances of catastrophic fires rather than a single room fire.

If your safe is in the corner of your garage on an exterior wall, behind a closet and sitting on a cement pad, your safe will be clear of fire danger 1) when the walls around it are done burning, or 2) when your FD uses a vent saw to cut through the exterior wall and pull the safe from the garage.

Either way, in the event of a CATASTROPHIC FIRE (not a room and contents), a garage will typically burn for a shorter period of time because it's SMALLER THAN THE HOUSE. Unless you load a cord of wood into it or fill it to the brim with chemicals, it's not going to burn any hotter than a home would.

Yes, as firefighters, we do work to save personal property even while the fire is still burning. If someone tells us there's a gun safe in the corner of the garage and they want it protected, we CAN and DO protect high value property. We can pull a vent saw, cut through the wall, and pull a hose and cool it. Or we can focus firefighting efforts on that corner in general without ever cutting through the wall.

If your safe is inside your residence and the home is fully involved with fire, good luck. We'll have no way of accessing it and no way to protect it until the fire is out. But you can certainly feel free to keep your fingers crossed that it wasn't exposed to 1000 degree temps and that your floor joists were of the solid wood variety, rather than the pressboard beams so popular in recent years that lose structural integrity within just a few minutes of fire exposure and fall apart completely with water exposure.

And once you've managed to wrap your mind around the fact that the level of fire protection in your area has a significant impact upon how badly your house could burn in a fire and, by extension, how it impacts the placement and effectiveness of your fire safe, perhaps you can pause to reflect for a moment on what 50,000 to 70,000 gallons of water looks like in the basement of a collapsed structure.

Never seen it? I have. And it steams for days. So good luck with putting your safe 1 foot off the ground in a basement with 5 feet of water in it and one or two stories worth of burned materials on top of it. Never mind the fact that by the time your insurance company finishes its investigation, your safe will have sat in the bottom of the basement, buried under all that crap and water for days or weeks.

I'd love to sit and be schooled on firefighting by a guy that knows nothing about firefighting or how houses burn, but I'm losing patience. I offered this post up as an OPINION, and you've done nothing but stomp your feet and demand that people agree with you about where YOU would put your safe.

Go ahead and argue till your blue in the face about the burglars that only steal safes from garages and not homes. I have nothing but my opinion to stand on in that regard.

But if you're going to make a couple random phone calls to FDs and talk to some guy that may or may not have actually given the issue any serious consideration and then turn around and spout off here as if you know something about fire protection, I'm going to have to call BS on it.

[BigIrish]

go back and read specifically what i said about basements and garages:

first and foremost:

There are a lot of considerations to weigh on where you'd like to put a gun safe. There is no perfect solution, and eventually you have to decide what's important to you.

On garages:

First and foremost, I'd put it in the corner of the garage furthest from your house (assuming it's attached). I'd bolt it to the floor and then I'd build a closet around it. Depending on the fire rating of the safe, that will give you the best chances of the contents surviving. It doesn't mean that it won't be exposed to 1000+ degree temperatures. It just means that it stands a better chance of being exposed to those temps for the shorter amount of time.

A word of warning (also good advice for fires in general): keep the fire load low. The more junk you have near or throughout the structure, the hotter and longer it will burn. People tend to fill their garages to the brim with plenty of combustibles, including chemicals. Recycle or dontate what you don't use. Put the rest in the trash and keep a clean home/garage.

On basements:

If you must have it in the house, IMO, the next best place is the bottom floor, on an exterior wall. If that's the basement, so be it. It'll be exposed to more heat, but in the event of a structural collapse, it's much more likely to remain standing - especially if it's in a closet supported by a stud wall. A safe that remains standing won't jar the contents like one that has fallen through the floor, and although it won't prevent water from getting inside, it'll fill from the bottom up.

Lastly, in any consideration - basement, first floor, or upper floors, I would focus on putting the safe on an exterior wall as far away from heat sources as possible. Many fires start in furnaces and even more so, in wood stoves. The fire will spread from the source and weaken structural integrity as it spreads. The further it is away from the most likely source of fire, the more time you'll have for firefighters to do their job and potentially save the safe and its contents. Kitchens and common living areas where human error and higher electrical usage collide are other areas where fires are most likely to start.

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The question isn't as much of an issue about where a fire will start. It's about where the safe is most likely to be exposed to the most heat for the most amount of time. Even when burning, the outer wall of a garage is more accessible than the basement or interior rooms of the house. an outer wall of the home is accessible, but since garages are usually only one story, they are much easier to control the fire and access at the same time.

Ground floors are more favorable than upper floors. Outer walls are more favorable than inner walls. Garages aren't subject to upper floor collapses and water pooling, so IN MY OPINION, the garage wins. There's no right or wrong answer, and there's no perfect solution.

EDIT:

Upon further reflection, since the direction of this thread has taken a turn toward a flame war, I'm going to go ahead and close it. I think the salient points about the good and bad of fire protection have already been made, and its unfortunate that it's turned into an argument.

If anyone wants to know more about the fire protection in their area, I encourage them to contact their local FD and take a tour of the facilities, ask questions, etc.