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Hillman
03-16-2003, 05:50 PM
Your wife's sister has come over to visit you and your family. Since she is about 4 weeks away from finalizing her divorce, her husband has stayed home. She has also brought her 2 kids, both under the age of 5. As the night progresses, she tells that her soon-to-be ex-husband has started becoming abusive, and shows various marks and bruises on her arms and shoulders. She tells you if he knew she was telling you this, he would kill her. And says for emphasis, "I mean it, he would kill me".

You answer a knock at the door - it's your brother-in-law, her husband. He's been drinking. You open the door to tell him to go home, that he's not welcome, and throws himself through the door forcing his way into your home. For illustration purposes, he is your size, maybe a bit taller, approximately same weight and build.

CHECKPOINT 'A': What do you do?

He rushes at your Sister-in-Law, and slaps her.

CHECKPOINT 'B': What do you do?

He takes a good-sized knife from the cutting block and makes threatening gestures toward your Sister-in-Law.

CHECKPOINT 'C': What do you do?

His attention turns from his wife to you. He begins making threatening gestures toward you with the knife.

CHECKPOINT 'D': What do you do?

He approaches you making stabbing motions with the knife.

CHECKPOINT 'E': What do you do?


ME? I'd yield to my sister-in-laws discretion at 'A', call the police and try physical intervention at 'B'. Also at 'B' the children would be ushered to another part of the house. Hopefully the police would arrive quickly. I'd try talking to him at 'C'. He'd see the business end of whatever I was carrying at 'D', including instructions to stop - drop the knife, etc. At 'E' (where are the police?) ... I may give him a little more leeway than a stranger at this point, hoping our 10 year friendship may settle things down (stalling for the police to arrive). But there will come a point when I feel fearful for my life and fire. Family or friend, drunk or sober, if it's him or me, I will survive.

And in case you're wondering, only the 1st paragraph of this scenario actually happened. But thinking about it led to the rest.

sprink
03-16-2003, 08:38 PM
I think by "C", deadly force is understandable and justified. As for him being "related" to you, judgement is your own. My sister is as important to me as anyone I know. I'd kill or die for her.

Greg

Bwomp
03-16-2003, 09:18 PM
He's messing with FAMILY (ie. your sister). But the kids are there also, and I wouldn't want my nephew seeing me shoot his father (long term psychological problems for the kid). Drunk = Stupid. Deadly force is justified with him entering your house like that. Intoxicated persons loose focus easily.....talk to him while someone else calls the police, then if he lets his guard down a little..continue to talk to him. But, if he makes to cause someone bodily harm..DROP HIM!!!!

I know its easy for me to sit here and THINK what I would do..but thinking and acting are two totally differnt things. Thank goodness I've never been put in that situation. Hope everything turns out ok, but remember, family is family, do whatever you need to do to protect them. I myself would gladly go to jail/prison protecting mine. Just my .02.

Bwomp
03-16-2003, 09:23 PM
Sorry...your wife's sister. Still, she's closer to you than he. Ten years is a long friendship, but still.......

Randycad
03-16-2003, 09:31 PM
I would have stopped him at the door or close to it (I am a former Tae Kwon Do Instructor) and would have keeped the sitution form becoming a very very bad one. But what ever you have to do stop it at the door! Most people are very easily redirected when the are drinking to much. When he is outside and the door is closed no one will see if you have to theach him some respect, he will feel it tomorrow.

Kimber45
03-17-2003, 07:13 AM
At the door - when I saw it was the BIL I would have instructed him to leave and I would have told my wife, sister and the kids to go to another room and call the police.

When he broke in I would have employed pepper spary - you should have several strategically located.

I would have tried to be in between my sister, assuming she hadn't gotten to another room, and prevented the slap using physical force if needed.

When he pulled the knife he would have been facing my gun and if he raised it he would have died.

SteveS
03-17-2003, 03:49 PM
I hate to parrot what someone else said, but I would pretty much do exactly what John said. I hate to change the hypo, but we have a "peep hole" in our door and I would not have immediately opened the door to someone that I just found out was abusive.

BigDaddy40
03-17-2003, 04:43 PM
A: The fight would be on
B: Draw and order him to drop the knife (family is in the house and I'm the last line of defense)
C: He would be on micoscopically thin ice
D: He would be dead
E: See D above

greaneyk
03-17-2003, 11:14 PM
I'm too impatient to go through the entire list, Hillman, but I'm reminded of many a classic scene where the king of the jungle is "tamed" by a simple bullwhip and a chair. Not being Indiana Jones, all I'd have is a kitchen chair. Should the need arise, I'd rather be cut a few times and beat him with the chair than kill him in front of his and my own family.

That's all presuming I didn't check and see for whom I was opening the door...

Good luck.

Kevin

jr-vass
03-18-2003, 10:39 PM
All good responses that I have nothing to add to.

But what's the "end of the story"?

Is your sister & kids safe? At your house or a spouse abuse shelter? Is the Drunk BIL in jail?

Just curious. Good luck.

James

Renegade
03-23-2003, 09:37 AM
Sorry folks I am not from the city.

Deputy what do you think? Feed him to the pigs?

RSF
03-23-2003, 04:59 PM
hey, i think those hogs need a good feeding! you know how i feel about you and yours, anytime any place

Hillman
03-23-2003, 10:05 PM
Well, the situation as it stands disgusts me. She's still in the house, but their divorce should be final in the next 3-4 weeks. I suggested she get him removed from the house prior to the divorce becoming final, so he doesn't get a fit of rage on that day.

ANIMAL
03-23-2003, 11:42 PM
Feed him to the pigs?

I was going to suggest that but didn't think anyone would understand.

country boy too.

jr-vass
03-24-2003, 05:02 AM
Well, the situation as it stands disgusts me. She's still in the house, but their divorce should be final in the next 3-4 weeks. I suggested she get him removed from the house prior to the divorce becoming final, so he doesn't get a fit of rage on that day.

It sounds like your sister is going to do what she wants :( without taking advice from you. :roll:

Since this clod has been physically abusive in the past, try to get your sister in touch with the local spouse abuse shelter. My sister used to work at HAVEN in Pontiac, and I've donated old cell phones to LACASA in Livingston county (they can still dial 911 without phone service).

We all know that PPO's aren't worth the paper they're printed on. If your sister doesn't have a pistol yet, maybe she should.

Good luck to you and your family.

James

Kimber45
03-24-2003, 07:13 AM
... If your sister doesn't have a pistol yet, maybe she should.

Good luck to you and your family.



Normally I would agree with that but if she is in the same house as this *****hole it might get used against her. She needs to get out of that house NOW.

jr-vass
03-24-2003, 10:03 AM
John,

I agree she shouldn't let her husband know she has a new gun.

Hide it where he won't find it... like the bottom of the laundry hamper or in a box of Kotex. :shock:

James

Quaamik
03-24-2003, 07:03 PM
John,

I agree she shouldn't let her husband know she has a new gun.

Hide it where he won't find it... like the bottom of the laundry hamper or in a box of Kotex. :shock:

James

DEFINATELY NOT!!!!

There is only one safe place to hide a gun in that type of situation: In a concealment holster on you.

Any other place, and she runs the risk of him finding it and the fact that she has it throwing him into a rage.

Or he could find it, deactivate it (anything from unloading it to dripping crazy glue into it) and then start an incident that would make her grab the gun, then kill her and claim it was self defense and that SHE was the one rying to kill him, not the other way around.

jr-vass
03-24-2003, 09:50 PM
Jeff,

You're right. Her best defense is to get the hell out of there with her kids and have a concealed gun.

I'm not an expert in domestic violence, but I hope the lady seeks out those who are.

James