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View Full Version : Robbed at work?



John Kennedy
03-19-2003, 11:11 PM
If your place of business is being robbed and they don't just take the money and leave, they decide to put you (who is armed and female) and all of the other employees in the freezer or a back room. You don't know if they are just going to leave you locked up or kill you, they also have a weapon, what should you do? :roll: :?: :flag:

There is one person, with a gun or so you think, 6 employees, as you are walking to the back they (the bg) are behind you. :evil:

Quaamik
03-19-2003, 11:19 PM
Not enough info.

How many assailents?
Who is thier attention on / how much is on you?
What weapons do they have?
How are they positioned?
Is there a good chance to get the drop on them?

ANIMAL
03-19-2003, 11:45 PM
if your heading to the back room or freezer your options are running out fast. would you take their word that they are only going to lock you up? not me. try to hide your movements and pull your gun then get a position on the target. If only one has a gun take him out first if more than one take the closest threat then move to the next. the others will probably try to run at this point, if not keep shooting. a prayer thrown in for steady hands, nerves and a good eye wouldn't hurt either.


In this I have decided that I am a dead man anyway so have nothing to loose and you have the advantage of a bit of a suprise.

BigDaddy40
03-20-2003, 08:47 AM
if your heading to the back room or freezer your options are running out fast. would you take their word that they are only going to lock you up? not me. try to hide your movements and pull your gun then get a position on the target. If only one has a gun take him out first if more than one take the closest threat then move to the next. the others will probably try to run at this point, if not keep shooting. a prayer thrown in for steady hands, nerves and a good eye wouldn't hurt either.


In this I have decided that I am a dead man anyway so have nothing to loose and you have the advantage of a bit of a suprise.




I agree. This is the reason we carry. I'm only going to comply long enough to distract or find an opening to draw. I would figure if I'm being held at gunpoint, I'm dead if I don't act.

Kimber45
03-20-2003, 09:04 AM
Yeah, if I figure that I'm likly t o die then I'm going to do my best to take some of the bad guys with me.

Circumstances will decide how I go about doing that and I'll do my best to survive but as Dylan Thomas said: "Do not go gentle into that good night."

Fred Mager
03-22-2003, 11:04 PM
This is precisely the scenario that happened several weeks ago at the Hungry Howies on W McNichols in Detroit. The rats hit 3 other places before they hit Howie's and only beat up people but there they killed a driver and herded the employees in to the cooler. I was aquainted with the kid who died. I don't know what I'd do but I know that whenever I go through the security doors I have my hand on my pistol. Like they taught at the Infantry School, "It depends on the situation and the terrain". BTW Howie's was closed for 2 weeks after that as the whole staff quit! The place is open now but is up for sale.

HK USP
03-23-2003, 12:12 AM
Depends on each individual, and the preception of threat accessment. How good of a shot are you, this is a tactical situation Can you doubble tap, do you have a clear shot, Have they made threats of murder, can you get them one at a time with out endangering the others, dose the freezer safety release work if they just leave. You can only use lethal force in defence of human life.
I remember if another case of they shoved them in the freezer and killed them over a year ago. So such a threat is very real.

Scoop
08-25-2003, 08:14 AM
Not enough info.

How many assailents?
Who is thier attention on / how much is on you?
What weapons do they have?
How are they positioned?
Is there a good chance to get the drop on them? Not enough info? Huh? Isn't that what the situation would REALLY be like?

Are the robbers going to distribute their itinerary to you, prior to holding up the place?

How do you know HOW MANY there REALLY are? Perhaps there are some hanging out outside or around the corner, and you can't see them? Or perhaps one or more of the others in the store that you THINK are customers are REALLY part of the BG's gang, but are pretending to be a customer so that he can be a 'backup' in case somebody like you is carrying or tries to play hero, and is only focusing on one or two perps?

Who knows how many weapons they have? What are you going to do, play 20 questions with the BG's?

If you have to ask these types of questions before answering a hypothetical question like this, I'd hate to think what might happen if this was a real situation.

My point is, you WON'T know all the answers -- you WON'T know 'how many' or 'what weapons' -- but you STILL have to make a determination as to what you are or aren't going to do.

Scoop
08-25-2003, 08:20 AM
You can only use lethal force in defence of human life. I don't know about you, but as far as I am concerned, if someone is armed and is forcing to put me in a SUB-Z freezer, I consider myself in IMMINENT DANGER and IN FEAR OF DEATH or SEVERE BODILY INJURY.

What if he were leading you towards the edge of a cliff, with the intent on pushing you off or trying to force you to jump off? Wouldn't that be imminent danger of death or bodily harm?

How do you know if/when someone will come and open that freezer door that the BG's somehow locks shut or renders the safety inoperable?

Even if it wasn't a freezer, it wouldn't matter. Are they armed? If the BG has a gun or a knife, he's not threatening the money, the store or the goods -- he/she is threating *ME*. I would feel fully justified in my actions.

taurus92
08-25-2003, 08:40 AM
One must also consider that you will be taking incoming rounds. Can you move and take the other employess out of the line of fire?

ANIMAL
08-25-2003, 09:39 PM
Good lord! I hope you all don't take this long to make a decision when the stuff really hits the fan. You had better make some predetermined decisions on what constitutes self defense. In my opinion of that senario I am already a dead man. do what you can to walk out alive and bring as many hostages out with you that you can. some is better than none. It's a a tough decision but it has to be made.

Not to piss anyone off but its a small area and you can figure someone is going to get hurt, possibly killed. In this situation its your duty not to let all get killed. and to get as many BG's as you can.

Do your best, thats all that you can do.

Wesley w/Glock
08-27-2003, 01:02 PM
if your heading to the back room or freezer your options are running out fast. would you take their word that they are only going to lock you up? not me. ... If only one has a gun take him out first if more than one take the closest threat then move to the next. the others will probably try to run at this point, if not keep shooting.
This looks pretty sound. From the info given it is clear that full AOJ exists. I would take this opportunity to point out, though, that this is where training becomes paramount! The act of acquiring and hitting a target instantly after discharging at another is something that must be practiced with technique. Also, if multiple assailants exists one would want to shoot on the move (a learned skill) even if ever so slowly (assuming room exists to move to). This forces the assailants to draw on handgun skills that they are amost certain to not possess.

... a prayer thrown in for steady hands, nerves and a good eye wouldn't hurt either.
You can bet this will be the case in the moments preceding any action! Once TSHTF, however... I think one would be pre-occupied!