View Full Version : Firebomb attack
There is a nutcase outside your home holding a molotov cocktail and is about to throw it at your house. Your wife and kids are inside. You are outside, have your firearm in hand, and have told the person to drop it. The person does not comply and draws back to throw the lit firebomb at your house. You shoot the person before the firebomb is thrown.
Do you think you would arrested and charged with manslaughter/murder? Would the prosecutor argue that everyone could simply leave the house and there was no need to shoot?
The alternative would be that this situation would be considered an imminent threat since your family is in danger and there is nowhere else to retreat. It would be considered an acceptable use of force and no charges are filed.
Kimber45
03-25-2003, 05:11 PM
I don't know what you could be charged with but I'd find out.
I don't know what you could be charged with but I'd find out.
I am with you on this one, It would be worth anything they could throw at me
ANIMAL
03-25-2003, 05:30 PM
It would be too bad if the cocktail fell on him after he was shot. Oh well family safe and one less scumbag.
keyjockey
03-25-2003, 07:12 PM
It would be too bad if the cocktail fell on him after he was shot.
If the police show up, just tell them you are roasting marshmallows over the campfire. :shock:
jpeos
03-25-2003, 08:26 PM
Do you think you would arrested and charged with manslaughter/murder? Would the prosecutor argue that everyone could simply leave the house and there was no need to shoot?
Whose to say the formerly-living scumbag didn't intend to throw it at YOU instead of your house?
BigDaddy40
03-25-2003, 10:09 PM
I don't know what you could be charged with but I'd find out.
me too
HK USP
03-25-2003, 11:07 PM
Actually I would shoot the fire bomb, and let him die by his own device.
johnyee1029
03-26-2003, 05:38 AM
Actually I would shoot the fire bomb, and let him die by his own device.
That was my thought!
There are no charges they could throw at you. You are not required to retreat in your home, and there was an eminent treat to your home and it's occupants. End of story, bury the scum bag blood sucker.
paddy
03-26-2003, 06:29 AM
I didn't want to hurt him.
I was just trying to shoot the bottle from his hand.
I tried to put the fire out but the pick ax handle broke.
Now I'm going to have to replace the grass in the front lawn.
:ukliam2:
There are no charges they could throw at you. You are not required to retreat in your home, and there was an eminent treat to your home and it's occupants. End of story, bury the scum bag blood sucker.
I agree that you have no responsibility to retreat IN your own home, but
If you are outside (lawn/detached garage) you must make every effort to avoid using lethal force.(At least that was what I was told in CPL class by Jim Simmons.)
Yes there is an eminent threat to your home & occupants, but again lethal force cannot be used to protect property. (occupants are a different story)
Now, (IMHO) if your house is brick & the cocktail is gas & rag, odds are that if they hit the brick the fuel will burn itself out or you can put it out before igniting other material.
If they hit the roof say bye-bye house(depending on the thickness of the bottle)(you can probably throw a beer/whisky bottle on the roof without it breaking). If your house is wood sided, again bye-bye house.
goldwing2000
03-26-2003, 09:38 AM
Your house may be brick but your windows are certainly not!
Kimber45
03-26-2003, 10:02 AM
And, as others have mentioned how do you know you are not the target? A firebomb is not just a threat against property but against the lives of those in and around the house.
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
johnyee1029
03-26-2003, 10:08 AM
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
Yep, that's what I'm talk'in about! Double tap to center mass
M1911A1
03-26-2003, 10:33 AM
Not to be the voice of doom and not that I don't agree that self defense is called for in that situation but you can be assured that you will be arrested and charged with something. I don't know what, since I'm no attorney.
There are prosecutors out there that will charge you because you had the audacity to defend yourself and they want you defenseless and controlled. They may not get a conviction but the public will get a good dose of the "madman vigilante" news coverage to help spread the pernicious lie that all shootings are gun violence. They are fighting a propaganda war and have done a very good job of it to date.
Ok, just my opinion and I'll step off my soapbox now since the rest of it will just tick off everyone.
Your house may be brick but your windows are certainly not!
And, as others have mentioned how do you know you are not the target? A firebomb is not just a threat against property but against the lives of those in and around the house.
Both points are well taken. :oops:
If there was nobody in the house & you used lethal force to stop the threat, you would be up to your neck & sinking fast in legal :bs:
HK USP
03-26-2003, 12:32 PM
If there was nobody in the house & you used lethal force to stop the threat, you would be up to your neck & sinking fast in legal
True but the origional post said the family was at home.
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
If you cannot hit a object the size of a bottle at say 50' then comes the fun part Practice Practice Practice... But honey I needed that dillon so I could save us money after I am olny praticeing to keep you safe. :D :D
I didn't want to hurt him.
I was just trying to shoot the bottle from his hand.
I tried to put the fire out but the pick ax handle broke.
Now I'm going to have to replace the grass in the front lawn.
And honest I didn't realize that kerosene was an acelerant, I was just trying to douse the fire with what was handy.
Kimber45
03-26-2003, 01:02 PM
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
If you cannot hit a object the size of a bottle at say 50' then comes the fun part Practice Practice Practice... But honey I needed that dillon so I could save us money after I am olny praticeing to keep you safe. :D :D
Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tie a coke bottle on the end of a string, hang it up at 16 yards and put it in motion. That's your target. I'll also set up a USPSA target at the same distance. That's mine. We'll see who gets off the best shots. No adrenalin rush, no worry about stray rounds, no fear of getting hit with the cocktail, no people screaming in the background just straight shooting.
I've already got the Dillon 650 and I shoot in a league and USPSA not to mention that I do practice and I even take advanced classes. In fact that's why I know that the best shot with the the gun is the largest and most stable target offered.
Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tie a coke bottle on the end of a string, hang it up at 16 yards and put it in motion. That's your target. I'll also set up a USPSA target at the same distance. That's mine. We'll see who gets off the best shots. No adrenalin rush, no worry about stray rounds, no fear of getting hit with the cocktail, no people screaming in the background just straight shooting.
Sounds like fun, can I come too? :lol:
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
I agree, but I would rather use 1 shot from a 12 gauge using 00 buck. Shooting the gasoline filled bottle would be impressive though. One high velocity round exploding the bottle with a lit wick would make a nice fireball.
goldwing2000
03-26-2003, 02:04 PM
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
I agree, but I would rather use 1 shot from a 12 gauge using 00 buck. Shooting the gasoline filled bottle would be impressive though. One high velocity round exploding the bottle with a lit wick would make a nice fireball.
Nicer than a bag of flour (http://www.geocities.com/kvincen1/Bang_Stuff.html)? :biggrin:
HK USP
03-26-2003, 05:44 PM
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
If you cannot hit a object the size of a bottle at say 50' then comes the fun part Practice Practice Practice... But honey I needed that dillon so I could save us money after I am olny praticeing to keep you safe. :D :D
Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tie a coke bottle on the end of a string, hang it up at 16 yards and put it in motion. That's your target. I'll also set up a USPSA target at the same distance. That's mine. We'll see who gets off the best shots. No adrenalin rush, no worry about stray rounds, no fear of getting hit with the cocktail, no people screaming in the background just straight shooting.
I've already got the Dillon 650 and I shoot in a league and USPSA not to mention that I do practice and I even take advanced classes. In fact that's why I know that the best shot with the the gun is the largest and most stable target offered.
Sounds like fun, I'll use my .22 and shoot from the hip, should be able to hit it by the 2nd round.... I use to do that as a game one my grandfather farm in Tenn. as a kid, and boy did I use up a lot of bricks of 22's before I got it right.
Kimber45
03-27-2003, 07:13 AM
No fancy shooting at the molotov coktail from me - double tap to center mass.
If you cannot hit a object the size of a bottle at say 50' then comes the fun part Practice Practice Practice... But honey I needed that dillon so I could save us money after I am olny praticeing to keep you safe. :D :D
Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tie a coke bottle on the end of a string, hang it up at 16 yards and put it in motion. That's your target. I'll also set up a USPSA target at the same distance. That's mine. We'll see who gets off the best shots. No adrenalin rush, no worry about stray rounds, no fear of getting hit with the cocktail, no people screaming in the background just straight shooting.
I've already got the Dillon 650 and I shoot in a league and USPSA not to mention that I do practice and I even take advanced classes. In fact that's why I know that the best shot with the the gun is the largest and most stable target offered.
Sounds like fun, I'll use my .22 and shoot from the hip, should be able to hit it by the 2nd round.... I use to do that as a game one my grandfather farm in Tenn. as a kid, and boy did I use up a lot of bricks of 22's before I got it right.
Okay, give me a date and time. I belong to Livingston Gun Club and we can do it there. I'll even pick-up the guest fee. It'll have to be a plastic bottle though - no glass on the ranges.
BTW, in the scenerio "should be able to hit it " means you or your house is aflame.
HK USP
03-28-2003, 12:45 AM
:D :D This will be a hoot, I haven't done a moving target is several years. If you fill the bottles with water it makes for a more stable swing. :D :D N check you PM
Oh ya I hope you don't plan on lighting me on fire, I don't have much hair left and I would like to keep what little I still have intact. :wink:
If you fill the bottles with water it makes for a more stable swing.
True, but if you fill them with gasoline, it makes for more realistic training!
SteveS
03-28-2003, 02:15 PM
Do you think you would arrested and charged with manslaughter/murder? Would the prosecutor argue that everyone could simply leave the house and there was no need to shoot?
I have a recollection from my criminal law class that, under the common law, it was permissable to use lethal force to prevent someone from burning your home. I am not absolutely sure and I don't know if MI follows this.
OTOH, any dumb-a** prosecutor that would go after someone under the circumstances you described would hopefully be recalled!
HK USP
03-28-2003, 11:57 PM
If you fill the bottles with water it makes for a more stable swing.
True, but if you fill them with gasoline, it makes for more realistic training!
That is a myth, unless you are using tracers, or are really close, as in muzzle flash close, a bullet will not light up the fuel. However if you light a candle and leave in on the ground under, then splat it with a nice large cal round :D
johnyee1029
03-29-2003, 05:01 AM
If you fill the bottles with water it makes for a more stable swing.
True, but if you fill them with gasoline, it makes for more realistic training!
That is a myth, unless you are using tracers, or are really close, as in muzzle flash close, a bullet will not light up the fuel. However if you light a candle and leave in on the ground under, then splat it with a nice large cal round :D
Wow, you people sure know how to party!!!! I love it. :bow:
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