View Full Version : Point / reflexive shooting (Combat shooting)
taurus92
05-12-2003, 06:14 PM
July 12th
2nd class possible on the 13th.
How do you shoot in a combat situation? How about an unexpected threat suddenly attacks? How to shoot accuratly in close encounters 2 - 15 yards without using your sights. Yes it can be done.
Location West Branch.
Cost $125
What to bring:
Working handgun
Minimum 2 extra mags / speed loaders.
Extra mag / speed loader pouches.
Holster that covers trigger guard. No Shoulder or Cross draw.
400 Rounds of Ammo
Hat w/brim
Dress for all weather conditions
Lunch and beverage
Portion of the proceeds will be donated to MGO. Come out learn, shoot and help the org!
Love to come, however, I don't believe my skill level would be up to snuff yet. Offer anything more beginnerish?
Ken P
05-21-2003, 07:34 PM
Love to come, however, I don't believe my skill level would be up to snuff yet. Offer anything more beginnerish?
I'll let Mark chime in here...but my un-official take is that as ong as you know basic gun handling safety you'll be fine.
Look at it as you likely don't have a lot of bad habits to break!
I've seen Mark and Steve in action...I'm sure you would learn and benefit from the class.
taurus92
05-22-2003, 07:49 AM
Skills required:
Know how to keep your finger off the trigger.
Know the basic safety steps.
Thats all.
What you will learn:
4 step draw.
How to auto index your gun onto the target and hit what you are looking at without needing the sighst at distances from 2 - (10 - 15) yards.
How to transition from 1 target another while covering 360 degrees around you.
Basicly this is combat shooting. What skills will you need to survive a short and violent encounter with the BG's.
These are not target or competiton skills. When it comes down to life or death you will not be sitting there thinking is this the proper sight picture? Do I have a great weaver stance... Am I in the box? You will need to look ata target and hit it fast, hard and often while moving.
Red Sector A
05-22-2003, 11:30 AM
Sounds interesting to me! Things I need to learn being new to CCW. Couple questions? Is this a all day event? How do I sign up? When and how to pay?
goldwing2000
05-22-2003, 11:49 AM
You sure about those dates? That's a Sunday and Monday. I would think it would be Saturday and Sunday.
Just checking...
bluethunder
05-22-2003, 05:17 PM
I took this class with a couple of the same instructors. It''s a great class. A LOT of stuff you can't do at the traditional gun range. Just don't mind getting a little duct tape on your sights. :freak:
Red Sector A
05-22-2003, 05:23 PM
Duct tape? :shock:
bluethunder
05-22-2003, 05:28 PM
The class I took, the first thing the instructors did was tape up the front ( rear sights, maybe ?)sights on everybody's pistol. It's a reflex/point and shoot type class. You don't have time to acquire the sights. You just know where to point the gun to hit the desired point of impact. Try it with your index finger on you strong hand. I'll bet you can pick a spot on the wall, and then close your eyes and point right to it. Go ahead, try it.
Red Sector A
05-22-2003, 05:30 PM
Ahhh got it! :)
taurus92
05-22-2003, 06:12 PM
Thanks Kane... I fixed the dates..
I will be a little nicer and use the blue painters tape :D
yes.. Acquire the slide into your line of sight close your eyes and squeeze off a few rounds.. you will put them all into 8 1/2 x 11.
Place a sheet up to your chest. good enough to make it a bad day for the BG
So come on who is in?
Ken P
05-22-2003, 06:21 PM
I'm in....have heard a lot about point shooting
Red Sector A
05-22-2003, 06:24 PM
Sounds interesting to me! Things I need to learn being new to CCW. Couple questions? Is this a all day event? How do I sign up? When and how to pay?
This sounds good to me, but could you answer these couple questions from above? :) Me thinks Kane Distracted you with the Duct tape! :)
Ken P
05-22-2003, 06:43 PM
Sounds interesting to me! Things I need to learn being new to CCW. Couple questions? Is this a all day event? How do I sign up? When and how to pay?
normally classes run in the range from 9 to 4 or 5 (depends on classs size and how much fun we're having!)
it says to pack a lunch and bring beverages, I'd add bring a lawnchair/stool
sign up for this class by sending an e-mail to mlevis@mgouc.com
payment arrangements will be taken care of via e-mail.
LivoniaDan
05-22-2003, 07:07 PM
Tentatively in...... Will let you know for sure....
taurus92
05-22-2003, 07:48 PM
Sounds interesting to me! Things I need to learn being new to CCW. Couple questions? Is this a all day event? How do I sign up? When and how to pay?
This sounds good to me, but could you answer these couple questions from above? :) Me thinks Kane Distracted you with the Duct tape! :)
Sign up by posting interest here... or send me an email at mlevis@mgouc.com.
Pay at the class or we can make arrangments via email.
Yes this will be an all day event. Lots of reps on the drills! We want muscle memory started.
I'm convinced. Ammo type? Do we need 400 rounds of high quality HP rounds or will just crappy old WinWhite 9mm FMJ do?
Ken P
05-22-2003, 10:26 PM
I'm convinced. Ammo type? Do we need 400 rounds of high quality HP rounds or will just crappy old WinWhite 9mm FMJ do?
you're punching holes in paper/cardboard...save the hp's for the real bad guys....cheap is good...as long as it's quality cheap!
Red Sector A
05-23-2003, 06:39 AM
Sign up by posting interest here... or send me an email at mlevis@mgouc.com.
Pay at the class or we can make arrangments via email.
Yes this will be an all day event. Lots of reps on the drills! We want muscle memory started.
Sounds good to me! Please SIGN ME UP! I'll bring cash to the shoot if that is alright!
I have a friend who might be interested, he is not an MGO member though (I have been working on them but he is hesitant so far). Can non-MGO members participate? I'm thinking we might be able to sign them up at the shoot! :)
I'm looking forward to this shoot, this will be my first time! :D
I cannot commit 100%, but I am making arrangements to attend this Hoot-nanny. :D Sounds like its a perfect class for me. 8)
Is there an RSVP date, or can we be last minute?
taurus92
05-23-2003, 07:32 AM
I cannot commit 100%, but I am making arrangements to attend this Hoot-nanny. :D Sounds like its a perfect class for me. 8)
Is there an RSVP date, or can we be last minute?
As long as there are openings you can wait.... But when it starst filling....
Red Sector A
05-23-2003, 11:58 AM
Ok one more question :)
When you say...
Extra mag / speed loader pouches.
Is a single mag carrier sufficient? Or do you require a double mag pouch?
goldwing2000
05-23-2003, 12:17 PM
I'd like to go but that's only three days after the girlfriend will be back from a three week trip abroad. I think I may still be *ahem* otherwise occupied. :wink:
I'm up for the next one, though!
taurus92
05-23-2003, 07:07 PM
Ok one more question :)
When you say...
Extra mag / speed loader pouches.
Is a single mag carrier sufficient? Or do you require a double mag pouch?
Single is fine... just be prepared to load from your back pocket :)
Red Sector A
05-23-2003, 07:16 PM
Ok one more question :)
When you say...
Extra mag / speed loader pouches.
Is a single mag carrier sufficient? Or do you require a double mag pouch?
Single is fine... just be prepared to load from your back pocket :)
Not a problem.. a mag will fit there as well! :)
Hey, I plan on wearing cargo pants. Hopefully my Glock is back by then...
Autumnlovr
05-27-2003, 06:10 PM
Sign me up Mark, I'll do this one first....then I'll go for the 2-day Advanced Handgun training some time in the future (AFTER we set up to reload, 1,500 rounds gets quite PRICEY over the counter!!!!)
Ken P
05-27-2003, 07:38 PM
I'm in....have heard a lot about point shooting
put me on the standby list... I know I'm going to have a family 'to do' to attend that weekend..likely going to be on Saturday..so hopefully we can get 2 days and I can do Sunday
taurus92
07-02-2003, 07:55 AM
A few spots left!
Come join the fun and learn some new skills!
Red Sector A
07-02-2003, 05:39 PM
Bad news for me .. I wont be able to make it! :cry:
I wont have the funds .. Money is short right now with my Wife out of work .. have to pay bills unfortunately! I will have to catch it the next time .. I hope there is one! I hate to miss this class cause it sounded just like what I was looking for in a real life situational training class.
Maybe next time!
I'm out too... unexpected medical bill ($900 MRI!!!!) came in. So money's going to be a bit tight until I steer us back on budget.
Ken P
07-03-2003, 10:36 AM
A few spots left!
Come join the fun and learn some new skills!
I'm in Mark..sounds like Norm and Chad were going to do RSO duty
Count me in too. :D
Just ordered my Wilderness belt & mag pouches, should be here next tuesday. :D
Are we meeting at Robs, or at the pit?
I will need directions to both please.
Can someone PM me Robs address so i can print a Rand McNally map?
Thanks
taurus92
07-03-2003, 02:11 PM
Probably meet at the pit.
Boss got the handy dandy directions?
I think I can find the pit from previous posts.
Just one question, is it before or after State Highway on Fariview?
The pit is North of State Rd on Fairview about 3-4 miles on the right
Ken P
07-03-2003, 09:49 PM
Probably meet at the pit.
Boss got the handy dandy directions?
hey teacher...
what time does class start??
I read this sucker twice and don't see it... :shock: ....and I even have new glasses
savedbydbelle
07-04-2003, 02:21 AM
I am interested if you still have room!
Ken P
07-04-2003, 07:12 AM
I am interested if you still have room!
should be plenty of room Sandie, couple of people dropped out over the last few days...
taurus92
07-04-2003, 07:37 AM
OK room for 2 more right now.
Class shall start at 9:30.
Red Sector A
07-04-2003, 06:22 PM
Yep.. I'm still in! Cant wait! :D
Autumnlovr
07-07-2003, 05:41 PM
Mark,
I'm really disappointed but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to shoot this weekend. I caught a cold last week and coughed so hard I pinched a nerve in my lower back. I haven't been able to stand/walk for more than 5 minutes at a time since last Friday. I went to the doctor today & he gave me some lovely drugs, but at this point I can't conceive of doing anything that may include standing for more than an hour.....heaven-forbid anything that requires knee pads!
So....if you have a wait-list, go ahead and re-book my slot. :cry:
taurus92
07-07-2003, 09:05 PM
Mark,
I'm really disappointed but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to shoot this weekend. I caught a cold last week and coughed so hard I pinched a nerve in my lower back. I haven't been able to stand/walk for more than 5 minutes at a time since last Friday. I went to the doctor today & he gave me some lovely drugs, but at this point I can't conceive of doing anything that may include standing for more than an hour.....heaven-forbid anything that requires knee pads!
So....if you have a wait-list, go ahead and re-book my slot. :cry:
Will always have room for you on the firing line! But this class will not require Knee pads. All shooting will be standing.
Hope you get better soon! I was a little worried about the class today as I had a nice wipe out going down hill through trees on the mountain bike. Lovely road rash but nothing major.
AutumnLovr,
I feel your pain. I slipped a disc in my lower lumbar 2 weeks ago (L5 I think?), and after the MRI I was told it was also herniated. I've been hobbling around...
Shot 100rds of 9mm this weekend. And it hurt bad! I highly doubt I'll be able to make it either. The only .22lr that I own with more than 2 magazines is the P22, and I definitely haven't even seen a holster for it yet.
We'll see what the Dr. says tomorrow about my ability to shoot this weekend.
GreggB
07-08-2003, 07:43 AM
AutumnLover and Roz- Take good care of those back problems and don't push it. Let them heal before you get frisky. It will be worth the wait.
Taurus,
I'm out. The Dr. sez I can't go unless I want to start spending some quality time with a wheelchair. This is due to the slipped and herniated disc in my lower back, which makes mobility quite an issue right now.
Then, there's also the $900 unexpected MRI bill, which didn't help matters either.
In fact, I'm supposed to be off my feet right now!
EDITED: For reason as to why I can't attend from a personal health and fiscal angle.
Sorry to hear we have some injured people who wont be able to make it.
I was hoping to meet as many members as possible this weekend, oh well next time!
I cant wait myself...
Maybe I can get an answer as to what i found the other week.
Its a spent brass that has 9mm lVl 96 stamped on the back.
It has a tapered white plastic piece crimped into it.
I'll bring it to class, I've asked several people who are into guns & some at stores & ranges & nobody seems to know what it is. So far it's a mystery brass.
Ken P
07-09-2003, 11:24 AM
Sorry to hear we have some injured people who wont be able to make it.
I was hoping to meet as many members as possible this weekend, oh well next time!
I cant wait myself...
Maybe I can get an answer as to what i found the other week.
Its a spent brass that has 9mm lVl 96 stamped on the back.
It has a tapered white plastic piece crimped into it.
I'll bring it to class, I've asked several people who are into guns & some at stores & ranges & nobody seems to know what it is. So far it's a mystery brass.
softball toss..
it's brass that has some plastic crimped in it...sheesh...LOL
it's brass that has some plastic crimped in it...sheesh...LOL
:lolup: Your are exactly right!!!! thats what it is, but what was it used for & what the heck shot out of it if anything?
It has baffeled everyone I've showed it to so far.
I'm just waiting for someone to say...I know what that's used for, i'ts for.................... :lol:
I can fit a pencil eraser in the plastic about 1/4", then it tapers in to fit inside the 9mm brass.
Ken P
07-09-2003, 05:37 PM
are they indoor practice rounds? Uses just a primer and the plastic "bullet"
had some of these in 38 spl
that or a expended sims round
taurus92
07-10-2003, 05:42 AM
WELL WE ARE DOWN TO 5 WITH 1 MORE LETTING ME KNOW TODAY. iF THEY CANCEL i MAY HAVE TO CANCEL THIS CLASS.
Maybe I need to start taking deposits. YEP next time DEPOSITS FOLKS
WELL WE ARE DOWN TO 5 WITH 1 MORE LETTING ME KNOW TODAY. iF THEY CANCEL i MAY HAVE TO CANCEL THIS CLASS.
Maybe I need to start taking deposits. YEP next time DEPOSITS FOLKS
Awww for cryin out loud, :cry: dont do that. :twak:
I'm 3/4 of the way packed & have been looking forward to this for a long time. Many pre-requisit's had to be done in order for me to attend this & I would be very disapointed were this to happen. A deposit would have been no problem here. I know that you cant think of it this way, but I feel the less pople the better for me (more personal instruction which i need).
Come on there has to more people here that need this class, sign up NOW.
taurus92
07-10-2003, 02:55 PM
Well class is on.
Next time it is cash up front no refunds.
Well class is on.
Thanks Mark, :biggrin: :bounce2:
Next time it is cash up front no refunds.
Not a problem. :thup:
taurus92
07-10-2003, 03:56 PM
Well I am more then PISSED about this. had nine and now 3.
Lets see all the time in planning, buying targets, materials for stands, building stands, gas and everything else for a trip up north. Time away from family.
THANK YOU ALL WHO CANCELLED AT THE LAST MOMENT.
Those that are coming bring extra ammo. Class just got better and will not take as long.
This is it last class and last MGO thing for me. I am done. C-ya all after Saturday.
Ken P
07-10-2003, 08:07 PM
Mark,
I can understand the sentiment.
All I can say is I apprieciate you going forward with this. Like Kevin, I was looking forward to it and even took tomorrow off work so I could get all my ducks in a row so I could have a great day on Saturday without mental distractions. I've got 300 rounds for the G36, and 250 rounds for my HiPower hopefully that's enough!
I hope you reconsider future classes, I've seen you and Steve in action.
Hopefully you'll give it a shot with half down and no refunds. You do deserve to be covered for prep work.
I understand doo-doo happens at times, but you shouldn't have to be financially responsible for it. It's no different than someone buying concert tickets or making vacation plans and then needing to cancel.
See ya Saturday
taurus92
07-10-2003, 08:26 PM
No prob Ken
Well just got back from getting 7 stitches in the palm of my hand... Still going to do it. Great week wipe out on the bike and take a good amount of damage / pain in the left side now slice the hand. WOO HOO
Hmm now all the one handed practice will come in handy :)
See ya all Saturday bright and early. I was going to head up tonight but the er trip put a damper in that. Now going up early tomorrow for a day on the lake.
Ken P
07-10-2003, 08:33 PM
wipe out on the bike and take a good amount of damage / pain in the left side
OWWWW...been there done that got the scars...brand new trek bike...first time in the dirt at hartwick pines 3 years ago...ass over apple cart going down the first sand hill (no pads, no helmet, thats how tough...or is it stupid I am).
ya know those trails ain't paved like the metro parks...LOL
Taurus,
I'm sorry for the cancellation. Send me your address and I'll send you a check for 1/2 the fee. Does that sound fair? There's no reason to punish the rest of the group since some of us are starring at the possibilty of life debilitating injuries.
bluethunder
07-11-2003, 08:38 AM
Well just got back from getting 7 stitches in the palm of my hand... Still going to do it.
Hmm now all the one handed practice will come in handy :)
.
So will they be strong hand drills,or weak? :wink: Seriously, Mark, I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes. When it rains, it pours. And like Ken, I agree you should not have to bear full financial responsibility for the class. A non-refundable deposit(unless it's a VERY good reason) does not sound out of line to me. And you and Steve seem to click when you're working with students.It would be a shame to break up the set. But ultimately, the decision is your and yours alone. And BTW, Roz, that was a very good thing you offered. :D
Ken P
07-13-2003, 07:28 PM
Class went great...
Instructors Scooby and Scrappy Doo were great to work with and very knowledgable.
This is the first "skills" class I've taken and must say it was an eye opener.
One of the better points that was driven home for me is the importance of developing muscle memory.
It was re-inforced every time Instructor Scooby rammed home a magazine with his left hand. I'm sure at the split second before contact was made with the heel of his left hand, he wished he wasn't going to do it. I'm suprised he didn't split open his stitches....OOOOWWWWWW.
This class proved to me that point shooting works. In a stressful situation you won't be able to aim in the traditional sense, but you can and will hit your target center mass.
For anyone considering taking any skills classes, I would say this is the one to take first before moving on to the more advanced classes. The skills taught in this class will serve you well in future classes.
Thanks to Mark and Rob for all their help.
sprink
07-13-2003, 08:15 PM
Sounds like you enjoyed it Ken! If I didn't just spend 1200+ rounds a couple weeks ago, I would have tried to make it. Point shooting really is "second nature", once you learn to do it. I hope it all went well and everyone is as happy as you. (Mark)! :)
taurus92
07-14-2003, 07:20 AM
Yes I am happy.... (only 2 people showed up) So they had a bargain day.
Of course I finally was able to shoot near the end ofd the class.
Plus ya'll missed out on a beautiful afternoon on the lake Saturday and all day Sunday. I brought the jetskis up and we had the tube and Rob's boat. Pretty much all alone on the lake so fun was had by all.
Ditto everything Ken & Mark wrote.
I had a great time at class & learned ALLOT about point shooting, & have much to practice & a couple of self learned bad habbits to un-learn. Like punching straight out from ready retention instead of punching up & then bringing gun back down onto target. Keeping gun on target while reloading. And not sweeping between targets, just to name a few.
Yes, lots to practice & more classes are in my future.
Thank you's go out to Mark for his excellent instruction, (and for bringing the jet skis!!) :D
And to Rob & Pam & family for their generous hospitality and instruction,
And to Ken for signing up so the class would not be cancelled.
Those who couldnt make it really missed out on an informative & fun class & should make preperations to attend the next one. Highly recommended.
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