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View Full Version : Why ill NEVER buy anything from Entreprise Arms again



ltdave
12-29-2003, 04:50 PM
ive hemmed and hawwed about posting here but after calling them again today i cant let any of my brothers (and sisters) here get burned and pi$$ed on like i have by Entreprise Arms and their owner Howard. want to make it sticky but dont know if i should. this info should be passed to EVERYONE in the shooting community but ill leave it up to the moderators to stickyfy it...

the below posted is long but it shows a pretty good documentation of the crap ive been dealing with since march.

david
[remove by mod pm if you want phone #] or PM if you have any questions or care to refute any of this.

Mid–February == Called Entreprise and ordered a receiver.

Early-March == Shipped receiver and TRW parts kit to Ted Brown in Oregon

Mid-March == Got a call from Ted Brown saying that the receiver was out of spec and he couldn’t get it to headspace. It was short. He sent it back to Entreprise to have them work it.

Beginning of May == Laurence sends the receiver back to Ted Brown. He claims it’s ready to go. Ted Brown can’t get the bolt to close on a .308 round, let alone a 7.62X51 round.

Beginning of May == Ted Brown and Laurence have several phone calls to discuss the issues with this receiver. Ted Brown sends the barreled receiver back to Entreprise with the agreement that Laurence would make a new receiver due to the amount of work needed.

Late-July == Ted Brown gets the new receiver with the headspaced barrel back and he assembles the rest of the rifle. He is concerned that the headspace is still a bit short. The TRW barrel has a chromed chamber and can’t be reamed.

First-August == I get the gun back from Ted Brown and take it to the range and notice that there are no windage indices on the receiver.

Early-August == When I get back from the Nationals, I call Laurence and ask him about this. He tells me that he will try and figure out a way to rectify the problem.

Mid-August == I decide it’s been too much of a pain and too long of a wait and call customer service to inquire about returning the gun for a refund. They transfer my call to Laurence who gives no help.

Mid-August == I call Howard the owner and explain the problems this has been for the last 5+ months. He tells me basically that it’s ‘just too bad’. He won’t refund my money nor exchange the receiver. He said that ‘good’ shooters pay extra for short headspaced barrels and that ‘real’ shooters don’t use windage marks anyway they just zero their rifles and put a daub of paint on them so they know where they have adjusted them from. I asked if he had ever heard of the Better Business Bureau and he asked me if that was a threat. Howard went on and on about how he has ¼ million dollar CNC machines and how he can’t just pull a job off to rework my receiver. I explained to him that in my tool & die plant we had 9 milling center that you COULD do that and maybe he should have paid for the next better model of machine. Howard offered to paint my lettering white for me free of charge and if I wanted to send it back I could the 3rd week of November. I explained that ‘other’ arms manufacturers would deal with the problem and expedite it back to me. He agreed to do the same thing. My rifle should be back to me the first week of December.

Mid-November == I pay $26 to ship my rifle back to Entreprise, c/o Laurence.

Beginning-December == I call Laurence to see how my rifle is progressing. He tells me that he has to figure out how to set up the machine to put the indices on and then he has to get the receiver re heat treated. He told me he would see if he could get things going a bit faster.

Mid-December == I called Laurence to see if anything is getting done and he said he would see if he could send in my receiver for heat treating without waiting on some other stuff to go with it.

End-December == I called Entreprise to see why Laurence hadn’t called me back. He has quit. My rifle is STILL not finished. When I sent it the 3rd week of November as instructed, I should have sent it so it would be there by the 3rd week of November. I was told it will be at least 2 more weeks before the indices are put on before being sent to assembly, try-out and shipped.



BOTTOM LINE: DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM ENTREPRISE ARMS. EVER

khicks
12-29-2003, 06:22 PM
man have you been throu the mill with this rifle.thanks for the warnning
i do hope you do get your rifle back soon

Roz
12-29-2003, 09:27 PM
Unfortunately this isn't a single incident with Entreprise. I've heard of multiple guys getting burned on both M1A receivers and FNFAL receivers.

I'd treat them with the same disregard I treat Hesse/Vulcan with.

ltdave
12-31-2003, 03:10 PM
i called jerry today and told him to not fix the rifle but to pack it up and send it back 2nd air as agreed to by howard back in august.

i did this because ive heard horror stories of guys sending rifles to entreprise to fix, and they come back with used parts and 'other' parts substituted.

without anyway of proving that, i dont want them to take my new TRW barrel and bolt and parts off and put on some worn out used parts. im hoping against hope on this one but thats what ive decided to do...

david


**moved post to the original thread for continuity sake**

Ken P

1/4 MOA
03-20-2009, 10:12 PM
You have my sympathy and understanding.
Some years ago Entreprise built my FN FAL 58STGC.
Just to set the record straight, I served in the British Army and was issued an FN FAL. I am also not a bad shot and have won several 1000 yard competitions.
My FN shoots all over the place. I'm lucky if I get 9 MOA.
When I returned it to Howard to complain, he said which fool had welded and pinned the muzzle break, I replied he had.
I asked if they would replace the ruined barrel with a new Styer.
He said that firstly they would take it out and shoot it to see if they could diagnose the accuracy problem.
Matt took the gun to the range and when I spoke to him a week later he said he was getting nice groups with it. I doubted the truth of that.
I spoke with Howard and asked what they were going to do. Howard said there was a problem with my scope mount and they were going to put one of their's on and shoot it again.
I called a week later to find out what was happening and spoke with Matt who said my $ 655.00 IOR Bucuresti MI scope was coming to pieces.
I asked him to return it.
Today I recieved my scope back and could see that someone had tried to unscrew the tubes. They could not have come unscrewd by themselves since the scope rings would not have permitted them to turn.
Today Matt said that my gun was at the range being test fired again, this time with one of their Leupold scopes.
Strangely enough he said that when he took it out, it shot all over the place.
This seems to conflict with what he told me a month ago about getting nice groups.
It is patently apparent that these people are amateurs who should not be playing with real guns.
They have had my gun for six weeks now and still can't figure out what is wrong with what should be one of the best battle rifles ever built, capable of at least 1 1/2 MOA.

1/4 MOA
03-21-2009, 12:41 AM
If anyone has had good success with a really good gunsmith who is willing to work on my FN and achieve optimum accuracy out of it (bearing in mind that it has an Entreprise reciever) would they please be kind enough to post here with the gunsmith's contact info:
Thanks.

Roger Roney
03-21-2009, 01:26 AM
You have my sympathy and understanding...... :welcome: Sorry to hear there are still problems after all these years.
....i called jerry today and told him to not fix the rifle but to pack it up and send it back 2nd air as agreed to by howard back in august.

i did this because ive heard horror stories of guys sending rifles to entreprise to fix, and they come back with used parts and 'other' parts substituted.....Is there a final chapter? What gun or pieces did you get back? Do you even remember? :lol: :lol:

Roger

Tedfs
03-21-2009, 06:06 AM
http://www.benoit.cc/ts/holy_necroposting_batman.jpg

327poc
03-21-2009, 06:45 AM
Thanks for passing on the info. Hopefully it spares another from problems.

Batman
03-21-2009, 01:12 PM
In Michigan go to Global Military Gunsmithing. Ken Kubin will build you up a very nice gun.

or

Century Gun Works (Richard Saurs) in Nevada. I have two of Richards FALs and they are fantastic guns, built on Imbel receivers.

Good luck

ltdave
03-21-2009, 05:27 PM
wow is this an old thread! like 4-1/2 yrs old...

yes. i got all of my parts back and i had my Marine Corp armorer look at it and he thinks the machining on the rear sights (where the sight has the knurling on the receiver) is insufficient...

the rifle has set in my safe ever since except for one time out for a display on USGI battle rifles...