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GLOCKME
04-09-2004, 06:01 PM
Just received my renewal ,wanted to beat the rush,and I notice there were a few changes to license..A bit smaller,a good thing..Still looks pretty "homemade",I can live with this..I am going to have to have it sealed again,sealed 2 times at beginning..

My question is with the "rules"on the back..How come if it has an update on front of 04/03 it cannot have an update of the back?

Still says not allowed on school property,not allowed in places that serve liquor..

I know that it is not a big deal,but if they could change all the rest,how come not these items?
Just wondering if anyone knows...
Thanks...
Brenden

GLOCKME
04-12-2004, 04:51 PM
Well I guess I am not the only one that does'nt know.. :shock:

Thanks for looking anyhoo...

khicks
04-12-2004, 05:01 PM
what countydo you live in, and how long did the renewal prosess take

GLOCKME
04-12-2004, 05:06 PM
Wexford...
They are VERY good here..
Took about 7 weeks..App. to pick up..

I wanted to get a jump on figuring a rush was building,none so far and State appears to pretty quick too..

Scoop
04-14-2004, 09:06 AM
My question is with the "rules"on the back..How come if it has an update on front of 04/03 it cannot have an update of the back?

Still says not allowed on school property,not allowed in places that serve liquor..

Technically, part of it is STILL accurate.

Schools/School property: Obviously, "at a school" is easily understood.

But 'on school property' is not easily understood.

Is a field house that is, say, on the other side of the campus considered "at a school", even though it's thousands of feet away from the actual school? Even if one could argue that it's not "at a school", the law still makes it illegal to carry there because it is, after all, "school property". See MCL 750.237a(6)(b).

How about a building or property that NOT owned by the school? If it's used primarily for instruction of students, it's off-limits per (6)(b).

What about on a school bus travelling down I-96? Some may say, no, it's not illegal to carry on there, but MCL 750.237a(6)(d) says differently.

Yes, you can carry while IN A VEHICLE on school property while dropping off or picking up. HOWEVER, one thing that some people might not know is that, according to the law, you MUST be the PARENT or LEGAL GUARDIAN of (atleast one of) the student(s) being picked up AND the student MUST be a student of THAT school.

Which means, you're illegal if you're in your car in a school parking lot and are ONLY picking up your sister, your nephew or neice, your mother, your wife, etc.

That's how the statutes read:

MCL 28.425o [b](a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

MCL 750.237a(6)(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
MCL 750.237a(6)(c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.
MCL 750.237a(6)(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

Divegeek
04-14-2004, 10:39 AM
Scoop there is the new part that was added last year that you are forgeting. It says parking lots in prohibited zones are okay. There is still some confusion about "school" parking lots though because they didn't alter the statues you listed governing schools. They just tacked on the end something saying that it was okay to leave your gun in your car that is parked in the parking lot of a prohibited area while you went inside.

Some people take that to mean school parking lots are okay, while others are using your interpretation

I chalk it up to our people in Lansing not thinking it through completely before passing a screwed up law to fix a disfunctional one.

Scoop
04-14-2004, 12:10 PM
Scoop there is the new part that was added last year that you are forgeting. It says parking lots in prohibited zones are okay. There is still some confusion about "school" parking lots though because they didn't alter the statues you listed governing schools. They just tacked on the end something saying that it was okay to leave your gun in your car that is parked in the parking lot of a prohibited area while you went inside.

I didn't forget it. In fact, that's EXACTLY what I was referring to - MCL 28.425o (Am. 2002, Act 719, ***. July 1, 2003).

I see the confusion, however.

MCL 28.425o(1) and (1)(a) state:
"(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a. "

while MCL 28.425o(3) states:
"As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1)."

Gee, let's specifically define the school parking lot situation (in car, student of school, dropping/picking up while IN PARKING LOT) in subsection (1), yet let's confuse it with the verbage in subsection (3) by excluding parking lots defined in subsection (1) ...

Does subsection (3) superceed subsection (1), or does subsection (1) apply "as is" to school parking lots.

Hell, if you read it with more scrutiny, one could argue that:

a) Subsection (3) exempts the parking lots of the places identified in subsection (1)
b) A school parking lot is a place "identified in subsection (1)
Therefore, the parking lot for the parking lot of the school is exempt, but the parking lot for the school is not .... :)

Gheesh. When will they make things SIMPLE?! :)

GLOCKME
04-14-2004, 03:58 PM
Yea,I knew that it was "made"okay for the parking lot,so therefore I would have thought they could have made a mention of that,and should have changed part about license of liquor..
All things being equal...But what is concerning this??

Thanks for the input..

Brenden