***Don't be this guy***

[G22]

From DNR:

http://www.michigandnr.com/law/ReportWeekDetail.asp?Week=6/6/2004


CO Carl Vanderwall ticketed four subjects operating ORVs on state land. One of the subjects failed to notify CO Vanderwall that he had a concealed pistol license (CPL) and was "carrying". CO Vanderwall ticketed the subject for failing to notify. The subject stated "I thought I only had to do that for real cops."

I would hate to be this guy...especially after that last statement. :shock:
Not much worse than pi$$ing off the DNR, they have relentless patience and will remember you for years to come. I read these reports and notice they catch the same stupid people doing the same stupid things in the same places, year after year.

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

Now he becomes a statistic, and has given the rest of us who took the time to "ACTUALLY LEARN THE LAWS" a black eye we cannot afford. :(

[BigDaddy40]

i say he was merely excersising his 2nd amendment rights.

do we have to ask the dnr for our first amendment rights or let them know we plan on speaking?

lol

[G22]

i say he was merely excersising his 2nd amendment rights.

Weather you like it or not, he broke the law.

Try telling the Judge you were excersising your 2nd amendment right and see how far that gets ya. :lol: Do it twice and see how long you have a CPL.

Am I to assume by your comments that you would not disclose either?

You also have the right to remain silent. Do you think that would appropriate in this situation?

[BigDaddy40]

i say he was merely excersising his 2nd amendment rights.

Weather you like it or not, he broke the law.

Try telling the Judge you were excersising your 2nd amendment right and see how far that gets ya. :lol: Do it twice and see how long you have a CPL.

Am I to assume by your comments that you would not disclose either?

You also have the right to remain silent. Do you think that would appropriate in this situation?




the law he broke came about from politicians withholding support for a bill until they got their pound of flesh put into it.

hardly a valid law when measured against our second amendment rights.

i would and have dislcosed.

remaining silent is a moot point in this situation.

my point is that your second amendment rights are either absolute or not, you choose


for instance, if you were at a school watching a little league game your son was playing in, and god forbid, some mental deficient showed up and started shooting the kids, would you pat yourself on the back for being a law abiding citizen, or would you forever be bitter that you allowed a politician to deprive you of a right you were born with while you sit there unable to stop the carnage and perhaps save your own child's life?

in my opinion these are things we should all be asking ourselves before we start bargaining away our rights. imo, giving away inalienable rights in exchange for a state's permission slip proves that one does not believe in the second amendment. if one did, they wouldn't be asking a state for permission.

not looking for a fight, just asking a question.

[G22]

my point is that your second amendment rights are either absolute or not, you choose

Unfortunately I cannot afford a legal battle over why my second amendment right overrides the states law on disclosure. And I dont think I would want to use not disclosing as a stage for a 2A battle.

All I can do is vote for people who share the same ideas as I do. So that's what I do...to no avail.

If only we could get a majority of americans to believe that 2A is an absolute right, not to be interperted/slanted to mean anything other than what it says, we would all be better off.

[BigDaddy40]

i wouldn't recommend using the disclosure for a 2nd amendment case either. matter of fact what i posted really had nothing to do with disclosure.

i don't think we need a majority of people to agree either. constitutional rights have nothing to do with a majority.

the guy who took burning the flag to the supreme court was told, i'm sure a million times, that it will never work. same principle the gays, minorities and every other issue group use...the courts

[goldwing2000]

matter of fact what i posted really had nothing to do with disclosure.

Ummm... so why did you post it in a thread about disclosure, then?

[BigDaddy40]

matter of fact what i posted really had nothing to do with disclosure.

Ummm... so why did you post it in a thread about disclosure, then?





see the last line of the first post

[goldwing2000]

matter of fact what i posted really had nothing to do with disclosure.
Ummm... so why did you post it in a thread about disclosure, then?
see the last line of the first post

"lol"?

[Jim Simmons]

Actually, until the DNR carry law was passed, these tickets were invalid. The disclosure provision specified "peace officer." DNR officers aren't peace officers.

The new law (can't remember the PA number) that allows concealed carry on state land specifies that DNR rangers are persons to whom immediate disclosure must be made.

If anybody knows who these defendants are, tell them to hire a good lawyer.

[BigDaddy40]

matter of fact what i posted really had nothing to do with disclosure.
Ummm... so why did you post it in a thread about disclosure, then?
see the last line of the first post

"lol"?




ummm...FIRST post on the thread

[Craig]

I got to side with Big Daddy on this. And to say that he was giving the "rest of us a bad name who have read the law", is not a valid point, anymore than the LEO who trys to bust someone of the same law but doesn't know what the law is until he later asks another LEO what it says.

We are a nation of laws, lots and lots of laws. Oh, and don't forget the regulations too. In fact at the federal level alone you and I are responsible for obeying regulations that if all the volumes were side by side would take over 100 yards. And don't forget about all the different LEO agencies, all just waiting to bust some poor citizen who is trying to live his life in peace but unfortunately is too stupid to remember the literally hundreds of thousands of laws and regulations.

[G22]

Craig, you can agree with whoever you want but if you don't disclose this is what happens.



CO Carl Vanderwall ticketed a subject last month for failing to advise an officer, as required by law as part of his concealed pistol license (CPL), that he was carrying a concealed pistol. The court fined him $450.00 and he lost his CCW for six months.

[Freetime]

Craig, you can agree with whoever you want but if you don't disclose this is what happens.



CO Carl Vanderwall ticketed a subject last month for failing to advise an officer, as required by law as part of his concealed pistol license (CPL), that he was carrying a concealed pistol. The court fined him $450.00 and he lost his CCW for six months.

WELL, that's proof enough for me, like it or not I would disclose. The law is the law and you don't have the right to pick and choose which ones you wish to follow. I don't think running off at the mouth about what the 2A says is going to help you much in the court room. Rants about 2A rights on these boards are really a waste of time, UNLESS, you have the $$$ and one Hell of a good lawyer to force the politicians to listen and act accordingly. The only real tool you have is your VOTE! And even that is debatable sometimes! :roll: I know opinions are like *****holes, everyone has one, THIS IS MINE :wink:
Larry

[Jim Simmons]

Is anyone raising the defense that DNR officers are NOT peace officers as defined by the act?

[BHP]

I assume by the reference of "CO" that the officer in question is a Conservation Officer, it is my understanding that CO's are MCOLES certified officers with full powers of arrest.

[G22]

I assume by the reference of "CO" that the officer in question is a Conservation Officer, it is my understanding that CO's are MCOLES certified officers with full powers of arrest.

Absolutely correct.
Sometimes when I'm bored I read the DNR weekly reports:
http://www.michigandnr.com/law/ReportYearSelect.asp
They usually cover Hunting/poaching, fishing, ORV violations, drunk driving, illegal fires, smoking pot etc...

You'd be amazed (probably not) how many utterly stupid people are out there!!!



Is anyone raising the defense that DNR officers are NOT peace officers as defined by the act?

I dont think so Jim.
Only that 2A rights should over-trump any laws to the contrary.
And I agree it should, but in reality, unfortunately, I know that it dosen't.

[Craig]

Thank you for making my point. Just the mear fact that everyone is debating who is a LEO, who is a "sworn officer", what is a regulation what is a law, shows that we have way to many requirements that it is difficult to know exactly what to do, regardless of what some ranters say here.

As far as we "don't get to pick and choose which laws to obey and not to obey", what about any immoral law. Would you have enforced the "Fugitive slave act" from the the 19th century? Or would you have enforced it? More importantly what if you DON'T know the law? We have hundreds of thousands of laws in this country. Do you have them all memorized? Remember, you are responsible for them.