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  1. #21
    I am a Forum User
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    Sep 2015
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    Southwest michigan
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    22
    i watched the video on youtube and easily figured out it was rigged..... and then when i said something about it being rigged, someone blasted me lol......

  2. #22

  3. #23
    I am a Forum User
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    Mar 2015
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    Three Rivers
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    99
    always entertaining

  4. #24
    I am a Forum User
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    Dec 2017
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    Prescott AZ-Tawas MI
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    168
    My department back in AZ (I was a part of the PD team who participated), ran several dozen drills on weekends in local schools who would allow participation with simmunitions and teachers (acting as the The Shooter, a Defending Student, and a Defending Teacher) who had a minimum of firearms training (i.e. CCW class only, basically a firearms safety seminar with 50 rounds of live fire) as the defenders in an active shooter scenario.

    Some interesting things came to light. Most interestingly, more than half the time the defender was able to address the threat and get rounds off and on target. Bear in mind this was a minimally trained teacher with a minimum of training versus an experienced officer.

    (Before anyone screams COPS CAN'T SHOOT...our department is very well trained and the officers who participated were all instructors).

    The active dynamic was that the officer who was the shooter had not been into the classroom before, and the desks were all filled with other officers as well as the defending teacher, or the teacher of the class was the defender, so they were double blind and didn't know in advance which person was going to be the one shooting at them. Obviously this took any advantage the shooter had in coming in, targeting a specific individual, and neutralizing them first.

    In drills where the defender was another officer, the threat was neutralized every single time. Equal training versus equal training.

    In drills where both the shooter and the defender were teachers (minimal training and NO tactical training)...the defender was still able to neutralize the shooter 4/5 times.

    In every case where the person acting as the teacher/defender had "advanced warning of shots fired" they were able neutralize the threat almost immediately. One time, a teacher/defender actually had the presence of mind to simply lock the door and instructed the "students" to get on the floor while SHE aimed her Sim gun at the now-locked door. I wanted to kiss her.

    I don't have the report or access to it anymore as I was not the one in charge of the study...but I may be able to get one, but under the new chief of my former department...it may be taboo for BS political reasons.

    NOTE: In all but a couple of drills, there were casualties among the "students" because the shooter came in firing, but the overall result was that far fewer were "killed" because someone in the room was able to address the threat and mount a defense.

    The Sim guns that were used were K Frame Smith revolvers. If we had access to our Glock Sim guns then I would say with some certainty that the results would have been an initial higher body count among students.

    We weren't able to access the AR platform Sim guns for the tests, so the data was limited to single active shooter armed with a 6-shot revolver...but it gave a lot of us a good insight into the active dynamic of a situation and we were pretty well able to extrapolate on our own what the results of higher capacity weapons would be.

    An officer armed with his patrol rifle (which 99% of us carried) would have turned the classroom into a virtual slaughterhouse because we would obviously use tactics, training, and cover to address specific targets rather than spray and pray. An amateur dirt shooter with an AR, AK, SKS, or other assault (style) carbine platform would most probably default to spray and pray and still have a good chance of being neutralized. The officer would be able to reload efficiently and keep up a good continuity of fire and most probably use cover as available. The dirt shooter would not (in all probability) be able to do any of those things efficiently.

    We can cover high capacity 9mm, 40, and 45 pistols and "what if" this to infinity...but I think the tests demonstrated the reality that an armed student or teacher with a minimum of training could mount a defense and reduce casualties. A better trained student, or teacher, could save more lives.

    Sorry for the long post. I am relying on 5 year old memory for this. If I can get a copy of the report I will post it. I am all for CCW on campus as long as the carrier has at least the minimum training for a state CCW (hopefully more).

  5. #25
    MGO Member luckless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sault Ste. Marie
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    5,102
    Very interesting!

    Thank you for sharing your experience.

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