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  1. #11
    I am a Forum User
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    Disappointed in my class...

    My wife and I just finished our CPL Class / Training in SW Michigan... they came highly recommended... I interviewed them a couple of times too! Last minute change the week of the class was, "because of ammo shortage" we will only be shooting 30+ rounds... I didn't know the difference - until reading this blog now - but, was very disappointed to see on the certificate at the end of class... "Non-NRA Course"! I asked about that and wasn't given a specific reason.

    Is there any way to complete the NRA course without having to take the whole thing again? The course information seems to follow the outline above... just not the shooting requirement??

    We will NEVER recommend this place for training! I've owned a couple of businesses... and have found that "bad news" travels a lot faster than good news... but, referrals are the "life blood" of a small business!

  2. #12
    MGO Member Gary Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garymac
    ...couldn't anyone "trained in the use of deadly force" be qualified to teach this section?
    State law says yes but the NRA isn't willing to go out on that limb. They require that lesson 3 of PPIH (the part that satisfies item iv) be done by a cop or lawyer. Here's the blurb from the instructor manual:
    "This lesson must be conducted by a law enforcement officer (LEO) who possesses an intermediate, or higher, Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) or similar certificate granted by the governing body within the state that controls the standards of police officer training, or an attorney licensed to practice law within the state this course is given and who is familiar with this area of the law."
    So 'civilians' have to pay a cop or lawyer to read the book to the class.
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  3. #13
    MGO Member Gary Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve1752
    Is there any way to complete the NRA course without having to take the whole thing again? The course information seems to follow the outline above... just not the shooting requirement??
    Your only option for getting a CPL is to take the whole course. You don't have to do it all at once but you have to do the whole thing. If the class you took was NRA PPIH and the instructor just skipped, or shortened, the shooting part then you should be able to have him run you through the missing parts and issue a NRA PPIH certificate with the proper verbiage "This course complies..."

    If the class you took doesn't satisfy the requirements for a CPL and the instructor misrepresented that fact you should be able to get your money back.
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  4. #14
    I am a Forum User
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    Great post and thanks for taking the time to put this up. Hope this helps everyone who has had questions on this get the answers they need.

  5. #15
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    Great post. Took my CPL class on Saturday and very pleased to see all of these conditions were met. My instructor was very knowledgeable, provided guns for the range for a couple people in my class, and also sold some ammo to some of them to complete the 100 rounds fired at the range. The legal portion was taught by a lawyer who specializes in this area of law, that also lives and serves in my area. Great Q & A that lasted for hours. No videos either, just hands on materials and training.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Johnson
    State law says yes but the NRA isn't willing to go out on that limb. They require that lesson 3 of PPIH (the part that satisfies item iv) be done by a cop or lawyer. Here's the blurb from the instructor manual:
    So 'civilians' have to pay a cop or lawyer to read the book to the class.
    The new instructors manual does also add anyone who is certified by the state to teach the law portion of the class.

    Not trying to start an argument, just saying the new manuals do include that.

    Also, if I have open spots in my classes I am willing to give students of other instructors who have had a "Sub Par" class a discount to take the full class over again.
    MCRGO Concealed Pistol License Safety & Training Instructor.
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  7. #17

    NRA Legal portion of PPITH

    I just completed the Instructor course (BIT),Instructor for Basic Pistol, and Instructor for PPITH. So, I am obviously NOT an expert, however the Instructor Trainers were very explicit that the legal part of the PPITH MUST be taught by a lawyer, that no police officer meets the NRA requirements in Michigan. I am going to abide by this when I teach, as this is what I was taught. However, a LOT of courses I am aware of do not abide by this, most of my friends who took an NRA course had the legal taught by a retired LEO. What say you?

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ltcnav
    I just completed the Instructor course (BIT),Instructor for Basic Pistol, and Instructor for PPITH. So, I am obviously NOT an expert, however the Instructor Trainers were very explicit that the legal part of the PPITH MUST be taught by a lawyer, that no police officer meets the NRA requirements in Michigan. I am going to abide by this when I teach, as this is what I was taught. However, a LOT of courses I am aware of do not abide by this, most of my friends who took an NRA course had the legal taught by a retired LEO. What say you?
    I say you can do what you are comfortable with, but the answer is in post #10.

  9. #19

    CPL class use of deadly force

    Quote Originally Posted by Garymac
    Explain this....

    (iv) Firearms and the law, including civil liability issues and the use of deadly force. This portion shall be taught by an attorney or an individual trained in the use of deadly force.

    I know that some people believe that "an individual trained in the use of deadly force" means cop but the statue does not say that. The statute does not specify the type or scope of training in the use of deadly force, just that someone has been trained. Consequently, couldn't anyone "trained in the use of deadly force" be qualified to teach this section?
    Absolutely, the way the law is written. I contacted the Michigan AG office and asked them to make a determination, (or at least give me a definition or other statute) however, no one, including the State Law Research Library could find anything.

    This is something that we may have to wait until the courts make a ruling. No one would argue that an active military or combat veteran, police officer, or other security personnel haven't been trained in deadly force.

    This is common sense.......however, common sense is not so common.

  10. #20
    Another area that I hear a lot of instructors do not follow is that the NRA requires certain pre-qualification criteria to be met before taking PPITH. Many instructors do not follow this.

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