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  1. #11
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    its not my first goto for HD! 12 gauge pump or semi auto is my favorite . first and foremost the .223/5.56 is not a high powered rifle round. its a small varmit round typically . it was designed to mame and not kill in battle. plus the small round and recoil allows for more consistent follow up shots. accuracy by volume.
    if you were to fire a rifle in your home you must be concerned with whats behind the wall or door behind your target. if the **** hits the fan its great. i would not use one for HD.

  2. #12
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    My advise is that you take MDFI Home Defense LongGun in Alliance, OH next year and bring whatever LongGun you would want to use at home and learn how to use it...pros and cons... HUGE eye opener....the Handgun home Defense class is also loaded with great info.

    There were shooters running a shotty others were running an AR. Each platform shines in certain scenarios, does poorly in others. But you need to figure that out yourself what works for you.

    And yes, after this class my SHTF/HD Goto is my AR.
    Last edited by badmax18; 11-05-2013 at 08:13 PM.

  3. #13
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    Results are in agreement with what GunTalk reported, .223 rd starts tumbling.

  4. #14
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    If properly trained an individual can use an AR15 carbine to great effect in this scenario.

    Without that training... It's a liability to everyone around. Stick with a shotgun or pistol.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernBorn
    If properly trained an individual can use an AR15 carbine to great effect in this scenario.

    Without that training... It's a liability to everyone around. Stick with a shotgun or pistol.
    How is that so? Explain yourself, please...

    I'm especially interested in how an AR15 is is somehow not as safe as other firearms in the hands of an untrained individual.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeywhat
    How is that so? Explain yourself, please...

    I'm especially interested in how an AR15 is is somehow not as safe as other firearms in the hands of an untrained individual.
    An untrained individual may not consider what is behind the target, may miss or may not know of the penetrative power of the .223 round. In an urban setting, any shot not on target will go through several walls. more a case of the round and not rifle. I personally have seen how a 223 round will go through a building.

    You also have to deal with a safety and possible jams in a semi that unless you train with them will turn the rifle into a club. A semi pistol is similar, if you do not train, you may be able to use it. For people who do not train a pump shotgun or revolver would be the best choice.

    JMHO

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernBorn
    If properly trained an individual can use an AR15 carbine to great effect in this scenario.

    Without that training... It's a liability to everyone around. Stick with a shotgun or pistol.
    The article would lead you to believe you have a greater chance of over penetration with a 9mm pistol as compared to a 223 rifle round.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by elwarpo
    An untrained individual may not consider what is behind the target, may miss or may not know of the penetrative power of the .223 round. In an urban setting, any shot not on target will go through several walls. more a case of the round and not rifle. I personally have seen how a 223 round will go through a building.

    You also have to deal with a safety and possible jams in a semi that unless you train with them will turn the rifle into a club. A semi pistol is similar, if you do not train, you may be able to use it. For people who do not train a pump shotgun or revolver would be the best choice.

    JMHO

    You do realize that most .223 rounds will not penetrate any further than a typical pistol slug right? This is especially true in the 45gr and below range.

    Actually, lighter weight bullets from a .223 are SAFER for urban use than a pistol.

    Here is an example:
    55gr Horandy TAP LE Urban penetrates 7.5" with a max cavity of 3.5" after passing through wall board
    http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ri...5-gr-tap-urban

    135gr 9mm TAP Critical Duty penetrates 13.5" with a max cavity of 2" after passing through wall board
    http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ha...5-gr-9mm-luger

    Again, there are 45, 40 and 35gr bullets available that will show even greater decreases in penetration after passing through drywall.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt 45
    Yes, it's a very capable weapon. Noise is an issue therefor a suppressor might be in order. Time to repeal NFA 1932.
    suppressor are legal to own in MI now, you just have to jump through some hoops to get one.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DP425
    You do realize that most .223 rounds will not penetrate any further than a typical pistol slug right? This is especially true in the 45gr and below range.

    Actually, lighter weight bullets from a .223 are SAFER for urban use than a pistol.

    Here is an example:
    55gr Horandy TAP LE Urban penetrates 7.5" with a max cavity of 3.5" after passing through wall board
    http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ri...5-gr-tap-urban

    135gr 9mm TAP Critical Duty penetrates 13.5" with a max cavity of 2" after passing through wall board
    http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ha...5-gr-9mm-luger

    Again, there are 45, 40 and 35gr bullets available that will show even greater decreases in penetration after passing through drywall.
    Correct. Depending on ammo choice, .223/5.56 defense loads will often penetrate LESS through wall board then pistol defense loads.

    http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

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