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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #1
    MGO Member Forum User
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    Muzzle up "powder shake"

    I shoot an informal league at a small club and we have a new loose cannon. Shooting a revolver he cants the gun up to the ceiling between every shot and gives it a shake back and forth (50 rounds a week). I know why he's doing it but imo I don't care if it gains him 10 or 2 points, it's unsafe. If for no other reason than we don't need to patch holes in the roof, jeez. I complained to a range officer tonight and he's going to bring it up at the board meeting of the club. When we press this guy to knock it off, specifically what do you think would be the best way to explain that what he's doing is not safe. There is the potential in my mind that while he shakes the gun he could drop it. I guess that's enough. I can just tell this guy is not going to abide easily though, he's a know-it-all dip***** and the good ole boys don't always like to rock the boat.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Just speaking for the range rules where I shoot:

    All muzzles MUST be pointed downrange at all times including packing and unpacking of the firearm. Up in the air is not downrange.

    If he is using a dense powder and is trying to have more consitant velocities then he should use a filler. I use Bullseye and it only fills the case up about 25% full, never had any issues even without filler. Also if he uses wad cutters and sets them flush or near flush with the case mouth then he will be using up a bunch the empty room in the case.

    Lots of ways to accomplish what he's trying to do.

  3. #3
    MGO Member Forum User
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    Well, we had a league meeting, asked him to discontinue this practice and he didn't have a problem with it, so problem solved. He did state that he thought his shooting may suffer a bit from not doing it and I called BS (in a gentler manner than BS).

  4. #4
    I am a Forum User
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    what does one gain from shaking your gun? I havent heard of this.
    doesnt the gun shake plenty on its own from RECOIL lmao

    glad he agreed to stop.

  5. #5
    I am a Forum User
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    I used shoot ppc at the matches with some of the best ppc shooters in the state. I have never seen anyone do the muzzle shake...lmao

    Sounds like a new dance move for you tube

  6. #6
    In cartridges such as 38 special there is a significant amount of headspace. This is especially true when using a powder such as Bullseye. The principal is that if you tilt the cartridge up just prior to shooting and then slowly bring it back down the powder will be physically oriented in a consistent manner relative to the primer. This in turn is supposed to generate more consistent velocities.

    I personally have never noticed a difference although there are others who swear by it. I can see it making a difference in benchrest shooting but unless you are REALLY good I don't think it would matter.

  7. #7
    MGO Member DV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle George View Post
    In cartridges such as 38 special there is a significant amount of headspace. This is especially true when using a powder such as Bullseye. The principal is that if you tilt the cartridge up just prior to shooting and then slowly bring it back down the powder will be physically oriented in a consistent manner relative to the primer. This in turn is supposed to generate more consistent velocities.

    I personally have never noticed a difference although there are others who swear by it. I can see it making a difference in benchrest shooting but unless you are REALLY good I don't think it would matter.
    I'm no expert on this but logic tells me that a hotter primer would be a good substitute for shaking if the point is to get all powder burned in an equal time frame.
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DV8r View Post
    I'm no expert on this but logic tells me that a hotter primer would be a good substitute for shaking if the point is to get all powder burned in an equal time frame.
    When it comes to precision shooting another tenant is that you should use the least amount of primer that will get the job done. That is because it is believed that the opportunity for variability is greater with primers than with powders. Just a tiny amount of primer makes a huge difference whereas the powder can be controlled more effectively. In addition, having consistent pressure curves round after round is what precision shooters are going for. That curve can vary depending on where the powder is physically located in the case when it is ignited. Ideally the case mouth should release the bullet at the same point in the pressure curve.

    Again, I'm simply repeating the mantra. When it comes to offhand shooting you have to be pretty good for this stuff to make much of a difference in your score. I consider myself to be better than average and I haven't found what I consider to be a statistically significant difference.

  9. #9
    MGO Member DV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle George View Post
    When it comes to precision shooting another tenant is that you should use the least amount of primer that will get the job done. That is because it is believed that the opportunity for variability is greater with primers than with powders. Just a tiny amount of primer makes a huge difference whereas the powder can be controlled more effectively. In addition, having consistent pressure curves round after round is what precision shooters are going for. That curve can vary depending on where the powder is physically located in the case when it is ignited. Ideally the case mouth should release the bullet at the same point in the pressure curve.

    Again, I'm simply repeating the mantra. When it comes to offhand shooting you have to be pretty good for this stuff to make much of a difference in your score. I consider myself to be better than average and I haven't found what I consider to be a statistically significant difference.
    Interesting, but I have discovered that what one "believes" and what can be proven is often three different things.

    Logic tells me that IF I can ignite every grain of powder at a nearly identical time AND I have the same amount of powder and the bullet release force is equal then the pressure should be the same, varying only by the difference of the load in the primer.
    Last edited by DV8r; 03-21-2014 at 01:54 PM. Reason: SP
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
    Dominus Vobiscum <))>(
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  10. #10
    MGO Member sca037's Avatar
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    I'm new to revolvers (been shooting semiautos indoors since 1986), and have observed after depleting what is in the cylinder.....folks tipping the barrel straight up when releasing the spent shells onto the table.

    Is this technique also a concern?

    Thanks,
    Brian
    NRA Life Member + RSO
    OCSC Member (full)
    HGC Member (associate)

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