Remington R51

[supergunnut]

I just pick-up my R51 I had on order since getting back from SHOT Show 2014, if anyone is interested in I'll write a review.....
Basically, terrible gun, don't even bother.

[Shyster]

A full review would be appreciated

[supergunnut]

Remington R51

So before getting into the review of the actual gun, here is a full disclaimer about my interest in the R51 and why this review will be nerd central. I have a thing for fixed barreled self loading auto pistols in 9X19 or larger calibers. Being an engineer (or former engineer I guess is more accurate) I love the physics involved in the operation of fixed barreled guns. They need to have some type of delay mechanism which allows extraction of the casing but without the casing failing from the internal pressure. John M Browning (in his genius) devised a way to keep the barrel and slide locked together just long enough (pivot link and barrel/frame locking lugs) for the casing pressures to drop thus facilitating a safe extraction without a casing rupture (dubbed the John M Browning lockup). Due to my interest in fixed barreled guns (9X19 or larger) I own and have thoroughly studied the HK P7, Desert Eagle and Hogue Avenger 1911 upper etc. All that being said I was very interested in Remington's new pistol designed after John Pedersen’s device from the 1900’s (John Pedersen was also lived/worked in Michigan, which is kinda cool) which is considered to be the only 9X19 auto loading pistol being made today (except the High-Point, which doesn't deserve to be called a gun IMO). Soon another new gun will hit the market by Walther called the CCP which I’m also very interested in (according to Walther it will be a gas delayed blowback operation, a copy of the HK P7, we’ll see if they can actually make it work).

All that being said, when I had an opportunity to attend the 2014 SHOT Show this year one of the guns on the top of my list was the new Remington R51. Upon arriving at the Remington booth I had to work quite hard to convince them to allow me to disassemble one of the 3 R51’s they brought to the SHOT Show (which made them uneasy to say the least). The guns they brought to the show were quite rough, visible machine marks and so forth. The booth staff told me they were prototypes, partially hand made and the production models would be “better”. No matter how good or bad their guns was going to be, I still wanted one so upon returning to Michigan I called a few of my local dealers with whom I had good relationships with, told them I would buy the first R51 they could get. Most didn't know the gun existed and appreciated the heads up and put several on order. My dealer informed me about one month ago that 2 R51’s were added to his “ready to ship” cart, but then disappeared a few days later when Remington recalled all the guns for factory modifications, of which they are remaining tight lipped.

For those who don’t know, here’s the basic explanation regarding the operation of the gun. When the round is fired, the slide and locking block (located inside the slide) move back together about 1/16”. At this point the locking block contacts a step in the frame preventing it from moving rearward any further. This then prompts the slide to continue moving rearward while the locking block slowly pivots/raises “up” away from the frame to clear the step in the frame. After the slide moves back about 3/16” the locking block has cleared the frame and both the slide and locking block continue to travel rearward. So for a very short period of time the locking block (breach) is about 1/16” away from the barrel and hangs there while the casing is about 1/16” out of the chamber. The casing is inside the chamber far enough to not cause a casing rupture, while still providing enough momentum (in that short 1/16”) for the slide to travel rearward. This allows for a very compact design as the spring is around the barrel (instead of below) as the barrel never moves, thus allowing a very small/compact slide profile (more on this later). The gun has an internal extractor (attached to the locking block) and a spring resisted firing pin (it’s internally hammer fired). There is a grip safety (similar to the 1911) but the safety pivots from the bottom of the handle, instead of the top like the 1911. There is no active/manual safety, nor firing pin block (just FYI).

So, Thursday I got a call (while in Texas, stupid Murphy's law) that my R51 had come in. When I got back home Saturday afternoon I drove straight to the dealer and picked it up right before they closed.
Initial impressions - Very rough, poor finish, visible injection marks on the trigger with the coating (paint?) warn away where the trigger traveled through the slot in the frame. The rear sight in the slide was off to one side about 1/32” (more on that later).
Initial cycle/dry fire - Pulling the slide back is anything but smooth very rough and course. What feels like several mechanical catches/hesitations when the slide is a quarter/half way back. Considering the locking block design I understand what’s going on, but it’s still a undesirable feeling.
Initial dis-assembly - Because I had prior hands-on experience, I was mostly familiar with the dis-assembly. But even then it took me a good minute fighting with it to get the slide off the frame, and the barrel out of the slide (they key is having 4 hands BTW). Now that I've done it half a dozen times (or more) it’s not so bad so long as you know the right steps.
Initial dis-assembly inspection - The machining is better than what it was at SHOT Show, but still not the quality I am used to (mostly a Sig, Beretta, HK, etc.). I’m not well versed in Remington products and have only a few shotguns and one R700 bolt action and have only seen their 1911 pistols from a distance so I do not know if this is typical of Remington quality or not. But I am not impressed either way.
Initial function test - Before getting to the range (that happened Sunday) I played with it quite a bit, dry firing, function testing, checking the trigger weight, reset, etc. I learned the slide needs to be racked quickly, as attempting to slowly cycle the gun causes a “jam” of sorts where the locking block binds between the slide/assembly and *basically* it cannot be manually forced any further. You must return the slide to battery and try again with more speed. This could be detrimental if you rely on the gun with your life and can't move the slide.

Sunday I was able to make it to the local (indoor) range and shot 2 (I repeat) two magazines.

Accuracy - The gun shot about 3” to the right (due to the rear sight being way off) at about 21 feet. In my hands the R51 was not accurate. A friend from work (who was also very interested in the R51) shot one magazine and had the exact same 2-3" splatter pattern result about 3” to the right. I’m a Glock hater (In full disclosure and only own one to study for/get my certification) but I could shoot twice as good of groupings with my co-workers Glock than the R51 (more on that later).
Trigger - While it’s a “decent” single action trigger (compared to a double action etc.), it’s not anywhere near that of a 1911 or a proper Sig/Beretta etc. I would rate it equal to a S&W M&P first gen when they had spungy sloppy triggers or your standard Glock (from a pull/break standpoint). The trigger has no, absolutely zero audible or tactile reset, the Glock trigger is better simply because there is a *FREAKING RESET*. The trigger has about a 3/16-1/4" overall travel and the physical reset is at the very, very end.
Sights - Not the best, decent 3 dot contrast, but are a weird/non-traditional design, just didn't feel comfortable/natural.
Shoot-ability - Is low, very low. It is more comfortable to shoot my Sig P938 than the R51. The amount of sharp recoil is painful/abrasive. My co-workers smaller Glock 26 was more comfortable to hold/shoot with noticeably less felt recoil and more accurate. I would honestly carry/shoot a Glock (and I hate Glocks) than the R51.
Reliability - In the 14 rounds I shot (two magazines worth) I failed to extract one casing. Clearly it wasn't shot a lot (21 rounds total including my co-workers magazine) but it is what it is.

In the end it’s kinda a terrible gun. Is it worth $400.00? I would say no. I would say it’s not worth much of anything as it’s a really terrible gun to shoot, clean, maintain, disassemble, etc. After two magazines my hand *hurt*, it’s not something I would wish on anyone.

[xcrdr]

Uh...... I guess I cross that one off the list.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[happy_gunner]

+1 I have seen many of the same points also brought up in other reviews of the R51. This pistol strikes me as a very much rush job and definitely something that you should wait to purchase to see how the generation 2s come out.

[stare-decisis]

Uh...... I guess I cross that one off the list.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I agree, it had potential and hype.

[Shyster]

What a bummer it looked like a great option for my wife.

[supergunnut]

I think the biggest problem is there simply isn't enough mass/resistance to retard the slide's movement in order to prevent a sharp/painful recoil into the shooters hand. On a traditional gun (Say 1911, Sig Sauer, Beretta, Glock etc.) you have the weight of the barrel and slide moving backwards for the first bit, plus a recoil spring that's about 1/2" diameter giving very good linear resistance during compression. Also slides on traditional guns are heavier due to needing to reach below the barrel to capture/engage the spring and not being hollow inside (the R51 has the locking block inside the slide that only moves backwards about 1/16"). So the R51 by nature has a very light weight slide with very little resistance to keep it from gaining tremendous speeds during the cycle of the gun. Without adding more weight/height (which would then nullify the supposed "benefits" of the R51) you will always *always* have a sharp recoiling gun which punishes the shooter.
Contrary to the Desert Eagle, HK P7, Hogue Avenger (and yes, even a High Point) all their fixed barreled mechanisms activly work to retard/delay the slide movement (which will retard/delay the unlocking of the breach), as opposed to retard/delay the unlocking of the breach block itself while the slide moves independently.
Shooting the R51 I think is a more harsh version the Sig P230/232 or Beretta Cheetah (both of which are fixed barreled .380 ACP's) as all tree have light slides and no retard built into the moment of the slide. In theory everything else *could* be fixed (the trigger, fit/finish, accuracy, etc.) but using this operation will *always* result in sharp and biting recoil.

[Pyzik]

I just pick-up my R51 I had on order since getting back from SHOT Show 2014, if anyone is interested in I'll write a review.....
Basically, terrible gun, don't even bother.

Pretty much what I've heard from everyone.

I wanted to like this gun too...

[BubbaX]

Nerd central reviews are great! Thank you. I echo the other comments. I wanted to like it also.