Remington R51

[supergunnut]

Thanks for the confirmation on liking nerd reviews. I enjoyed writing it.

[nmuskier]

Waiting on Walther's new CCP!

[gjgalligan]

Guns are just like any other manufactured item, never buy them in the first year of production! Always give some time for the REAL testing (the consumers) to be completed and the bugs worked out.

I am surprised that an engineer does not understand this.

[Wolvee]

[supergunnut]

Guns are just like any other manufactured item, never buy them in the first year of production! Always give some time for the REAL testing (the consumers) to be completed and the bugs worked out.

I am surprised that an engineer does not understand this.

Oh I fully understand this, I worked/lived in the automotive world for years and that same principal applies. I simply didn't want to wait, knew/figured there would be issues and figured for a $400.00 gun it's not a big deal either way. Besides I wanted to study the mechanisms and while it may be improved at some later point the principals remain the same.

[Ra's al Ghul]

That's disappointing, i was considering getting one of these as another carry option. Thanks for the review.

Now to wait for Walther's release of the CCP to see how it stacks up against the PPS (#1 on my list currently)

[SpartyME]

Now to wait for Walther's release of the CCP to see how it stacks up against the PPS (#1 on my list currently)

The CCP is also a gas-delayed blowback and will likely have similar shortfalls in the shooting experience.


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[supergunnut]

Walther makes fine guns, especially the PPQ which is basically the best striker fired polymer framed pistol on the market today IMO. However if HK couldn't make a pistol with a gas delayed/blow-back operated pistol work, I don't have much hope Walther can, especially in a polymer frame (HK P7 was metal) considering heat was the #1 reason the HK P7 failed.

[Wolvee]

Walther makes fine guns, especially the PPQ which is basically the best striker fired polymer framed pistol on the market today IMO. However if HK couldn't make a pistol with a gas delayed/blow-back operated pistol work, I don't have much hope Walther can, especially in a polymer frame (HK P7 was metal) considering heat was the #1 reason the HK P7 failed.

The P7 failed? Are you nuts? I'd say 1979-2008 was a pretty damn good run on a gun. They are still some of the most sought after guns in the Hk world today. I know of one retired Trooper that was issued one on his first day on the force, he's now retired and he still carries it.

[supergunnut]

Not to say you are wrong, but.... you're wrong.
The HK P7 is a brilliant, out-of-the-box innovative designed gun and was the only production pistol with a fixed barrel in 9X19 for years (High-point not-withstanding). The fact a company continued to make a low QTY of a niche gun for years does not lend to it's success, but simply it's existence and that there was a given market which supported the manufacturing of said gun. Clearly that market has dried up/become too small/unprofitable otherwise HK would still be making them.
I don't know your personal/hands on experience with the HK P7, nor am I aware if you have/do own one and have studied it in length, so allow me to share my own personal experience as someone who does own a P7 and has studied it extensively, including hands on shooting multiple times. The P7 is a great gun by all standards (especially on paper similar to the R51), it's compact, has a phenomenal trigger (as HK triggers go) good sights, is *ridiculously* accurate and a pleasure to shoot. The magazine release could be improved (I think there is one version with a western mag release instead of the eastern heal latch) but that's a forgivable offense. However the one and primary reason it failed (in my and basically everyone else's book as well) is because after 2-3 magazines, or certainly a box of 50 round shot in quick succession the gun is rendered inoperable due to an excessive amount of heat buildup in the side/dust cover/gas delay mechanism. The HK P7 is a great carry gun as it's compact and reliable, but don't make the mistake of utilizing it for extensive training or an extended trip to the range, it simply does not allow you to shoot it that long.
Compare that to the Sig Classic gun series which (depending on the variation) does everything the P7 does (P239 being the closest contender) yet can handle sustained firing for thousands of rounds in a row without issue. The Sig P22X has actually found wide adoption (not the P239 particularly, but the P22X series) with police and military forces around the world and is about the same age as the P7.
So yes, the HK P7 is failure, it will be interesting to see how Walther attempts to resolve HK's heat issue especially considering they are utilizing (what looks like) a polymer frame.