regarding "SBR" measurements

[jp233]

I use air quotes around SBR because... by ATF definition these are not SBRs. But it appears that Michigan wants to be special on this one...

so, when measuring a rifle with a folding stock:

- do you measure the total absolute distance? that is, from tip of the muzzle device, to the furthest point aft.

- or do you measure from the end of the barrel at muzzle face, with muzzle device removed, to where? aft end of receiver, or aft end of folding stock.

I appreciate any replies. I think I remember reading an unofficial statement from MSP on this years ago, but want to know what's official, if able.

[Notes: I read the opinion piece 6280, but it is very old. And does not define the above in specific.]
Thanks!

[Shyster]

Michigan uses the shortest operable configuration. Stocks are collapsed or folded but I count muzzle devices simply because if OAL were ever to become an issue I am quite certain the cops would count it.

[JDG]

I thought if the muzzle device was not permanently attached(per atf definition) it must be measured with it removed. And the rifle must be folded, and measured along the bore center line. (on my Mini 14 folder, the grip is the rear most point to measure to, even though its not on the bore center line.) No diagonal measurements.
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/10/when...ifle-a-pistol/

[Shyster]

I thought if the muzzle device was not permanently attached(per atf definition) it must be measured with it removed. And the rifle must be folded, and measured along the bore center line. (on my Mini 14 folder, the grip is the rear most point to measure to, even though its not on the bore center line.) No diagonal measurements.
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/10/when...ifle-a-pistol/

The OP was referring to MI law not federal law. Under federal law you can only count permanently attached muzzle devices towards OAL.

In other words it is perfectly consistent to have one length listed on a Form 1 for an SBR and a different for a Michigan RI-60 if the SBR is registered as a pistol.

[JDG]

I thought Michigan followed federal law on measuring barrels.

[Roundballer]

[JDG]

No doubt, what a cluster @*%$! So I needlessly registered my VZ2008 folder as a pistol as it was under 26" folded without the muzzle device. I guess it still is a pistol if I just install a muzzle nut....

And if I screw on a 3.5" device on my Mini 14 folder SBR, I wouldn't have had to register it either....

Michigan needs to get with the program, and adopt the Federal law!!

[Shyster]

I thought Michigan followed federal law on measuring barrels.

With regard to measuring barrels Michigan does follow federal law. My comment regarding a muzzle device is meant for people who are looking to register an SBR as a pistol and CC it. If you were to do so and the muzzle device put the gun over 26" I could foresee having to educate a prosecutor.

[JDG]

With regard to measuring barrels Michigan does follow federal law. My comment regarding a muzzle device is meant for people who are looking to register an SBR as a pistol and CC it. If you were to do so and the muzzle device put the gun over 26" I could foresee having to educate a prosecutor.

Since I didn't see the OP mention CC, I wasn't thinking along those lines. If MI follows Fed law on bbl measuring, then the device should be removed on an OAL measurement. If your lawfully CCing a loaded rifle in your car, I would simply remove the device to avoid a grey area. Or be prepared to pay a good Lawyer to educate a prosecutor!!

[jp233]

The OP was referring to MI law not federal law. Under federal law you can only count permanently attached muzzle devices towards OAL.

In other words it is perfectly consistent to have one length listed on a Form 1 for an SBR and a different for a Michigan RI-60 if the SBR is registered as a pistol.

This is also a follow-on to what I was getting at.

No doubt, what a cluster @*%$! So I needlessly registered ......

....

Michigan needs to get with the program, and adopt the Federal law!!

I can't agree more. This is nuts.

I'm trying to see if I should double down on stupid and register an SBR, even though the ATF doesn't call it an SBR. I figured the ATF would laugh at seeing a 16" regular legal barrel being registered as a "SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE", but then see the return state address and chuckle...

The item in potential question would be relevant as far as OAL under 26", WITH permanently affixed muzzle device, making a 16" barrel.

Even further, it is completely stupid to have to skirt laws to stay legal, but saying a regular rifle is an SBR so you can register it as a pistol? And OBTW, this registration thing is for the birds. And to think that said "pistol" is legal to CC, bAAAAhahahaha!!!

It is absolutely ludicrous that the difference in under an inch of AOL makes a person a felon, under Michigan law.