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  1. #11
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    Don't forget, if you had it registered before Jan 1 2013, it's grandfathered, and it can be over 26" but under 30".
    But you have to keep your registration paperwork with you, or else it might suddenly be an illegally concealed rifle...
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  2. #12
    Legal Forum Contributor / Super Moderator Shyster's Avatar
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    I have five SBRs and I intentionally built them so MI law would classify them as pistols. I can carry them in my car should I ever wish to. In fact, immediately after the election with the rioting that was happening I may have put an SBR under the back seat of my truck.
    DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or official policies of Michigan Gun Owners. Any opinion I express on an issue should not be considered legal advice.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp233 View Post
    This is also a follow-on to what I was getting at.



    I can't agree more. This is nuts.

    I'm trying to see if I should double down on stupid and register an SBR, even though the ATF doesn't call it an SBR. I figured the ATF would laugh at seeing a 16" regular legal barrel being registered as a "SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE", but then see the return state address and chuckle...

    The item in potential question would be relevant as far as OAL under 26", WITH permanently affixed muzzle device, making a 16" barrel.

    Even further, it is completely stupid to have to skirt laws to stay legal, but saying a regular rifle is an SBR so you can register it as a pistol? And OBTW, this registration thing is for the birds. And to think that said "pistol" is legal to CC, bAAAAhahahaha!!!

    It is absolutely ludicrous that the difference in under an inch of AOL makes a person a felon, under Michigan law.
    You're confusing two separate regulations , you don't register a "MI Pistol or MI SBR" with the feds unless it meets the federal definition of a SBR
    The firearm you referenced above needs to be registered as a pistol in MI because it meets the MI definition of a pistol

  4. #14
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsr View Post
    You're confusing two separate regulations , you don't register a "MI Pistol or MI SBR" with the feds unless it meets the federal definition of a SBR
    The firearm you referenced above needs to be registered as a pistol in MI because it meets the MI definition of a pistol
    He is joking about the FED registration, mocking the BS MI. BS....

    As for the measuring question, since the muzzle device is not considered barrel unless it is permanent, I would remove it to measure. And if carrying it loaded inside a vehicle, I personally would have it under 26" The registration part in MI is a joke, but if you don't have an out of state cpl, we must comply with the damn joke.
    Last edited by JDG; 03-05-2017 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JDG View Post
    He is joking about the FED registration, mocking the BS MI. BS....

    As for the measuring question, since the muzzle device is not considered barrel unless it is permanent, I would remove it to measure. And if carrying it loaded inside a vehicle, I personally would have it under 26" The registration part in MI is a joke, but if you don't have an out of state cpl, we must comply with the damn joke.
    So here's some more context:

    Out of state CPL? Yes.

    Moving to Michigan? I guess so.

    The aforementioned " item in potential question would be relevant as far as OAL under 26", WITH permanently affixed muzzle device, making a 16" barrel." .... also has a vertcial foregrip, which by federal definition a pistol cannot have unless it is registered on a Form 1. So by registering a "Michigan pistol" with a vertical foregrip, I feel that puts me into a potential dangerous grey area. Once again, federal definition differs from the basic definition of a pistol (designed to be fired from one single hand), which this is not originally designed to be operated as such (like anyone can prove that anyways?!?), but it is possible. Obviously Michigan calls that distinction of "operable" into play.

    Where I'm from, with the CPL you can carry whatever you want, however you want. Michigan car carry/transport laws also suck and need to change. But I'm not worried about that just yet, I'm trying to figure out whether I need to either sell this before I move, or how to see about it being "legal" per MI law without having to register w/ ATF.

  6. #16

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp233 View Post
    So here's some more context:

    Out of state CPL? Yes.

    Moving to Michigan? I guess so.

    The aforementioned " item in potential question would be relevant as far as OAL under 26", WITH permanently affixed muzzle device, making a 16" barrel." .... also has a vertcial foregrip, which by federal definition a pistol cannot have unless it is registered on a Form 1. So by registering a "Michigan pistol" with a vertical foregrip, I feel that puts me into a potential dangerous grey area. Once again, federal definition differs from the basic definition of a pistol (designed to be fired from one single hand), which this is not originally designed to be operated as such (like anyone can prove that anyways?!?), but it is possible. Obviously Michigan calls that distinction of "operable" into play.

    Where I'm from, with the CPL you can carry whatever you want, however you want. Michigan car carry/transport laws also suck and need to change. But I'm not worried about that just yet, I'm trying to figure out whether I need to either sell this before I move, or how to see about it being "legal" per MI law without having to register w/ ATF.
    Registering it as a pistol in MI doesn't change its federal status....Like I said you have two separate sets of laws to comply with

  8. #18
    MGO Member JDG's Avatar
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    This is an email reply from the msp.

    Michigan requires that a firearm be measured in the shortest position (folded or collapsed stock) in which it can still be fired. Remove any aftermarket attachments or anything that is not permanently attached prior to taking the measurement. If the over-all measurement is 26 inches or less it would be subject to the requirements pursuant to MCL 28.422 (license to purchase) or MCL 28.422a (pistol sales record).

    Your rifle is gtg as far as federal law, but your question on the VFG is a good one. Ok on a rifle, not sure on a MI pistol.
    Last edited by JDG; 03-06-2017 at 09:28 AM.

  9. #19
    Yeah, the VFG is a sticky point.

    OBTW, all we're talking about here is an AMD-65. The barrel measures right at 16", but due to the specific folding stock, it is shorter than most all rifle-barrel-length AK folders.

    It is crazy that this Hungarian AMD-65 could potentially be viewed as an MI SBR due to OAL, yet registered as a pistol, but may have features that conflict with the federal definition of a pistol and hence could be looked upon as an AOW. Paperwork, grey areas, and potentially having to spend money just to keep the thing... all because Michigan is really, really stupid on this.

    And, this is not a sale. Nothing is transferring here. So a "pistol sales record" doesn't make sense by nomenclature anyways. Anywho, registration doesn't make sense either, but I guess I'm going to have to accept this since I'm going from Free America to Heavily Regulated DMZ America.

    It is even more crazy, that the same exact gun (say, a Romanian AK folder), would have NONE of the above applied since it is over 26" OAL. It is then a long gun and no registration, no pistol, no nothing.... all over ONE INCH of overall length? This is bollocks.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp233 View Post
    Yeah, the VFG is a sticky point.

    OBTW, all we're talking about here is an AMD-65. The barrel measures right at 16", but due to the specific folding stock, it is shorter than most all rifle-barrel-length AK folders.

    It is crazy that this Hungarian AMD-65 could potentially be viewed as an MI SBR due to OAL, yet registered as a pistol, but may have features that conflict with the federal definition of a pistol and hence could be looked upon as an AOW. Paperwork, grey areas, and potentially having to spend money just to keep the thing... all because Michigan is really, really stupid on this.

    And, this is not a sale. Nothing is transferring here. So a "pistol sales record" doesn't make sense by nomenclature anyways. Anywho, registration doesn't make sense either, but I guess I'm going to have to accept this since I'm going from Free America to Heavily Regulated DMZ America.

    It is even more crazy, that the same exact gun (say, a Romanian AK folder), would have NONE of the above applied since it is over 26" OAL. It is then a long gun and no registration, no pistol, no nothing.... all over ONE INCH of overall length? This is bollocks.
    The BFG is a federal regulations the AMD is a rifle federally so it's good to go
    Like everything else the line has to be drawn someplace ...MI just drew it really F'ed up ...Use to your advantage you'll be able to carry it loaded in your car under your cpl

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