Welcome to MGO's Internet Discussion Forums…Please Consider Becoming a Dues-Paying Member of the ORG…Click >>>>>HERE<<<<< for more info…………****DONATIONS**** can also be made toward MGO's Legal Defense Fund and/or MGO's Forums >>>>>HERE<<<<<

KROGER

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17
  1. #11
    steel jacketed bullets don't do anything worse to hardened steel backstops than copper or brass jacketed bullets.

    The jackets are typically so thin that all three materials share similar ductility and will preform the same. The surface hardness of the materials play no role in backstop damage. It's energy and sectional density that determines how much impact damage will be done, and will be done by which ever material has the most mass (the core). Damn near all of these indoor ranges with hardened steel backstops are rated to take multiple 50BMG hits and survive. That's 18,000 Joules of energy with a sectional density of 0.4, and a much thicker copper jacket than typical.

    Somehow to these indoor range owners, that is less damaging to their backstops than a 400 joule Tula 9mm steel jacketed bullet with a sectional density of 0.13.

    The steel cores and jackets spark heavily on impact and increase the chance of range fires in the traps.
    This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard in the gun owning community. I've heard this before and it's complete non sense.

    Sparks are not embers. Anybody that's worked in a shop environment can tell you that. Grinding mild steel creates sparks, but no embers that linger on the floor.

    The small piece of steel that is removed from the jacket upon impact and turns into a spark never lands on the ground glowing. It loses its glow well before decent. That means it has lost all of its heat and has reached ambient temperature. The smaller a mass is, the faster it sheds heat. The small fragment of steel that glows as a "spark" is only a few microns thick. Given the temperature of ignition of most smokeless powders, it is inconceivable that this so called "spark" could possibly ignite loose smokeless powder particles on the range floor.
    Last edited by The General; 08-20-2018 at 10:57 PM.

  2. #12
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    the dog house
    Posts
    10,658
    Quote Originally Posted by The General View Post
    steel jacketed bullets don't do anything worse to hardened steel backstops than copper or brass jacketed bullets.

    The jackets are typically so thin that all three materials share similar ductility and will preform the same. The surface hardness of the materials play no role in backstop damage. It's energy and sectional density that determines how much impact damage will be done, and will be done by which ever material has the most mass (the core). Damn near all of these indoor ranges with hardened steel backstops are rated to take multiple 50BMG hits and survive. That's 18,000 Joules of energy with a sectional density of 0.4, and a much thicker copper jacket than typical.

    Somehow to these indoor range owners, that is less damaging to their backstops than a 400 joule Tula 9mm steel jacketed bullet with a sectional density of 0.13.



    This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard in the gun owning community. I've heard this before and it's complete non sense.

    Sparks are not embers. Anybody that's worked in a shop environment can tell you that. Grinding mild steel creates sparks, but no embers that linger on the floor.

    The small piece of steel that is removed from the jacket upon impact and turns into a spark never lands on the ground glowing. It loses its glow well before decent. That means it has lost all of its heat and has reached ambient temperature. The smaller a mass is, the faster it sheds heat. The small fragment of steel that glows as a "spark" is only a few microns thick. Given the temperature of ignition of most smokeless powders, it is inconceivable that this so called "spark" could possibly ignite loose smokeless powder particles on the range floor.
    You may or may not be correct as to how long a spark retains sufficient heat to ignite gunpowder on the range floor. I have however personally witnessed and put out powder flare ups more then once on a indoor range floor back at the trap.


    As mentioned in a earlier post it is not damage to the stops the owners worry about, but the fire hazard. At least the owner of the range I shoot at. The range I frequent does recognize some brands (Hornady and Winchester are examples) manufacture steel cased ammo with common cup/core make up and allow their use, but do ban steel cored ammo due to fire reasons only. They fully understand their backstops limitations and, allow rifles up to a given size which is dictated by the effect of the muzzle concussions abusive effect on fellow shooters and, not a fear of range damage. (I have personally shot modern 12ga slugs on it) Other ranges thoughts on this may vary here.
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

  3. #13
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Fenton Michigan
    Posts
    2,409
    Here you go. .32 cents is pretty darn cheap for brass cased ammo. SGAmmo is the best place to buy any ammo. It is the same or less than my dealer prices from wholesalers!

    https://www.sgammo.com/product/surpl...ve-yugo-surplu

    That's the nice thing about an AK. They are not very accurate but they will eat any ammo.

  4. #14
    MGO Member Slossar1004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Port Huron
    Posts
    732
    BWSA in Port Huron area which isn’t too far from you. An initial investment of about $150 and $120 for each subsequent year gets you pretty much unabashed access to over 13 outdoor ranges/bays and you can fire from 9:30 in the morning until sunset. Here it doesn’t matter what kind of ammo you use, as long as you’re not using AP/LAP bullets on the club’s steel targets. While one may not penetrate, repeated use will eventually cause failure.

    As for the cases @ BWSA it doesn’t matter what you use. Just clean up when you’re done.

  5. #15
    I am a Forum User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Clinton Township
    Posts
    428
    sgammo.com sells Yugoslavian brass ammo with non metallic bullets in 7.62x39. It is pricier and corrosive so you need to clean your weapon when you get home.

  6. #16
    MGO Member JDeko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    977
    Top Gun in Taylor lets you shoot Tula [they sell it as range ammo behind the counter] but I know that's quite a hike.

  7. #17
    MGO Member Ol` Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    the dog house
    Posts
    10,658
    Tula offers a line of lead cored steel cased ammo that is acceptable for use on indoor ranges.

    https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...14950011500.do
    "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt".

    The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
only search Michigan Gun Owners Forums
MGO's Facebook MGO's Twitter