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  1. #21
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrScaryGuy View Post
    from the Strike Industries webpage about the "phantom latchless ambidextrous charging handle"

    WARNING: For standard mil-spec AR15 only. Not rated for suppressors and /or full auto fire. Not for use on SBRs or pistol length barrels (<14.5")
    that really makes me wonder about their ability to stay in when you want them to.

    Yeah, I saw that. The only thing that really inspires confidence in it with me, is that it's a 16" gun with the gas turned way down.

    Between the Phantom and the Blackhawk, the main reason I'm leaning Phantom is because it's red. That's it. The double detent vs the single looks like it "should" hold stronger.....but I don't know.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuel Fire Desire View Post
    Yeah, I saw that. The only thing that really inspires confidence in it with me, is that it's a 16" gun with the gas turned way down.

    Between the Phantom and the Blackhawk, the main reason I'm leaning Phantom is because it's red. That's it. The double detent vs the single looks like it "should" hold stronger.....but I don't know.
    yeah, i'm going to be SLOWLY buying parts for the sbr stamp i picked up while ago. i do like that they make a lot of cool stuff in red. but I may wind up getting some other stuff and rolling the dice on a good cerakote job. I just picked up their forward assist a bit ago and I'm thinking the skeletonized AFG might be next.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  3. #23
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    Strike Industries does make your red charging handle body with a minimalist latch, as opposed to the large 'extended' latch on your misbehaving unit. They call it 'A.R.C.H.' Unless you are wedded to the high polar moment of inertia extension for some reason, just ask them to send you the 'A.R.C.H' minimalist latch and install it in your red charging handle body.

    My AR parts weight database shows the A.R.C.H charging assembly with the minimalist latch to weigh 1.276 ounces, complete. Standard MIL-SPEC GI charging handles typically weigh 1.07 - 1.15 ounces, so the standard A.R.C.H. is in that ballpark. Extended latch charging handles start around 1.50 ounces and run up to 2.00 ounces with the weight difference almost always in the latch. Don't have a weight on your misbehaving charging handle assembly, but it is reasonable to assume that its weight is on the high end of that range and all of the weight differential vis a vis the standard A.R.C.H. charging handle is in the extended latch.

  4. #24
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    Another Option

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arging-handle/

    BLACKHAWK! Took the Latch Off Their Charging Handle
    Wide Open Spaces - August 23, 2017

    BLACKHAWK! took an idea and ran with it, creating the first No Latch Charging Handle for an AR-15.

    Looking for the next drop-in upgrade that will make your AR-15 that much cooler? BLACKHAWK! might have the exact thing you need in their new No Latch Ambi Charging Handle.

    We were lucky enough to get a close up look at how this thing operates when we attended the Mossy Oak licensee event in Pike County, Illinois earlier this year. The unique leaf spring holds the handle to the receiver, so there isn’t any squeezing requirement each time you want to charge the rifle.

    Left-handed gun owners will appreciate the full ambidextrous capabilities, and the over-molded handle helps give the handle an overall larger pull point from both sides. That means cold hands, gloves, and even low set optics aren’t ever an issue.

    There are four colors to match several furniture kits, and the simple nature of this charging handle is the kind of thing you’s wish happens more often in firearm accessories.

    The creation of the BLACKHAWK! No Latch Charging Handle is doing even more to put the company on the map. BLACKHAWK! first impressed us when we saw what they rolled out at SHOT Show, and their suppressors, tactical gear, and various other accessories go above and beyond what the average gun owner would expect.

    The new No Latch Charging Handle is available alongside the rest of BLACKHAWKS!’s lineup on their website.
    However, note this comment:

    Sintercore - Neal Brace, owner says:
    August 23, 2017 at 16:34

    Thanks for the shout out for my handle, but credit where credit’s due: there were latchless, steel ball bearing detent charging handles before my Tripwire. As far as I know, they’ve all been discontinued because the hardened steel ball destroys the upper receiver’s latch point and trashes the entire thing. Lots of videos and pics online of what happens when a company tries to use a hard material for the sliding latch…it wears things out really fast. Interested in seeing if BLACKHAWK! addressed this issue. I believe my Tripwire is unique in that it utilizes a polymer material (Delrin now, carbon fiber previously) for the sliding latch instead of steel or aluminum.

  5. #25
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    I was looking into the Blackhawk specifically because of this. It uses a broad flat leaf spring instead of a round ball. So hopefully wear is minimized.

  6. #26
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    Strike Industries refused to do anything, and stopped emailing me back after I sent them a plagiarized version of what 10x25 said. Either they thought I was being a know-it-all ass, or the engineering team had it go over their head (probably the former). Their last email blamed tolerance stacking (after I told them it was a built gun).....of course.

    The Blackhawk handle came in, and I am pleased with the way it looks, feels, and the level of retention it has.....but it's still doing the exact same thing. The detent spring isn't exactly light either. It takes s good yank to get it unlocked. But it's still sliding back by about 1.5" before the bolt catches it and slams it home again. Little to no force felt if I put my finger immediately behind it and fire.

    There has to be some sharp impulse going through the rifle under initial recoil. I don't know what to do about it. I guess first step is to pull off the comp and see what happens. It has a M4-72 that generates a blast concussion that is outright abusive. I don't know if it's sending a forward impulse through the rifle to unseat the detent or not (it totally eliminates felt recoil in this setup). Maybe the impulse that is unlocking the latched handle is not a rearward impulse that's springboarding the latch, but a forward impulse that's pulling the handle and receiver forward out from underneath the latch. I don't know...I'm just guessing at this point. If that fails....spend another $20 on a GI charging handle.

    I'm just a couple more tries away from breaking this entire thing down and starting over with a different build concept.
    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 09-16-2017 at 06:57 PM.

  7. #27
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    did you try swapping the bcg? I know you said the handle is popping back before the bolt even unlocks... but hey, what do you have to lose?
    change one variable at a time. You already changed the gas, right? BCG
    If you're looking for a standard handle, pm me. I've had one of unknown origin sitting on my coffee table for a long time. I'm sure I got it out of some parts kit, used it gently, and then swapped it out for something "better".

    I have a short list of SI parts I was looking to buy, but if their service is crap, I'll either find alternatives or find a shop with a very generous return policy.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  8. #28
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    At this point, you really need accelerometer data traces to figure out what is going on, but a reasonable laptop PC based accelerometer system is going to add $ 200 and considerable fiddling to your current level of aggravation. The cheaper cell phone based accelerometer apps all seem to be associated with keystroke theft for some reason. Russian authorship?

    Three alternative trials you should consider conducting:

    1) Fire an otherwise stock M4gery carbine with both the SI and Blackhawk charging handles. Do they unlatch? Assuming here that the GI style charging latch on the M4orgery does not unlatch.

    If neither the SI or Blackhawk charging handle unlatches on the M4gery carbine, then:

    2) Install a stock, GI style charging handle on your build rifle with no other modification. Does it unlatch?

    Regardless of the second trial result, then:

    3) Spin off the Precision Armament muzzle brake on your build rifle and then fire it with the GI style, SI, and Blackhawk charging handles - without any muzzle device whatsoever. Do any of them unlatch?

    This experiment design should determine whether the Precision Armament muzzle brake is creating the unlatching pulse, and rank the susceptibility of the different charging handles to unlatching. From there we may be able to surmise what kind pulse is effecting the unlatching. Or not. But you will have enough information to determine whether you really have to break your build down.

  9. #29
    MGO Member Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
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    As abusive as the brake is, it might just come off anyway. It's honestly as bothersome to shoot as a full house belted magnum but with no associated felt recoil. It does it's job exactly as advertised, but man is it concussive.

    I got the iPhone "slow mo" video into my computer and slowed it down as much as I could. I got to see more of what's going on versus the first video I took. There is most definitely a very sharp initial recoil impulse that shoves the entire rifle 1/4 of a width of a slot on the top rail to the rear (over the course of about 2-3 frames), but then it is abruptly halted to a dead stop faster than it was accelerated to the rear (in one frame or less). The charging handle unseats and continues on its way at seemingly the same velocity the rifle itself was traveling before the brake stopped it. It then looks like at about 1/4" rearward of its locked position, the handle dramatically slows down as if it hits something (BCG as they're both sliding to the rear maybe?) and then coasts to a gentle stop before getting smacked closed again on the BCG's return stroke.

    This, as it appears to me with this video, seems to be a combination of the ultralight rifle accelerating like crazy under initial recoil, then violently halted by the overly effective brake....not just an overly sharp recoil impulse by itself. An unfortunate unlucky conglomeration of parts. So off the comp comes and see what happens.


    ......race guns.......
    Last edited by Fuel Fire Desire; 09-17-2017 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Spelling

  10. #30
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    You can determine the frame-to-frame dimensions of the movements seen in your cell phone video by applying the dimensions of the Picatinny rail:


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