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  1. #1
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    93 Spanish Mauser

    Hello everyone,
    I have searched for 3 hours on my 93, everyone in the world has a differnt view on safety and load data.
    Does anyone here have actual experience with the rifle and hand loads?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    7x57 Mauser or 7.62x51 NATO?
    You have been infected by the Amish Virus. Since the Amish have neither electricity nor computers, you are on the honor system. Please format your hard drive. Thank you

  3. #3
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    A matching number Spanish Model 1893 rifle or Model 1916 carbine should be safe to shoot after it is inspected, with several caveats:

    The Spanish Model 1893 Mausers do not have the safety lug introduced in the Mauser Model 1898 rifle action. You must have the headspace of your rifle checked by a competent gunsmith, and both the bolt and the receiver MT (magnetic particle) tested before you shoot it. I have never encountered cracked receivers in original Spanish rifles, but I have seen cracked bolts. The bolt cracking in each case seemed to have occurred after the rifles arrived in America.

    There are several issues with loading and shooting Model 1893's, at least from the American perspective. Most Spanish produced Model 1893's will have 0.287 - 0.288 inch groove diameters, which is significantly larger than the 0.284 inch diameter bullets available to American handloaders. These rifles shoot long 175 grain, 0.284 inch diameter bullets fairly well, but do not shoot lighter, shorter 0.284 inch diameter bullets well at all. Slugging your bore to determine its groove diameter is well worth the effort.

    The Spanish loadings for the 7x57mm cartridge at the time most Model 1893's were made was a relatively low pressure loading, and pressures were further reduced by the oversized groove diameter. Several references I have seen in the Spanish language indicate that the maximum chamber pressures of Spanish military loads were held to 2,500 bar maximum, or about 36,000 cup. American factory 7x57mm cartridges are loaded to a maximum average pressure of 46,000 cup with a probable upper bound of 48,900 cup. Don't use American made 7x57mm factory cartridges in a Model 1893.

    As slower burning powders became available after WW I, the Spanish increased the diameters of the bullets they loaded - but they kept the chamber pressures low. At the same time, they adopted spitzer profile bullets. The standard Spanish load before WW I was a 173 grain round nose cupronickel jacketed bullet of 0.282 inch diameter launched at 2,300 fps.

    I load only unsized, lubed, gas checked, Lyman 287405, 150 grain cast bullets in 7x57mm cartridges to be shot in my Model 1893 and Chilean Model 1895. Lyman no longer makes this mould, so my load will be of little use to you. Friends of mine load 175 grain Remington CoreLokt jacketed bullets of 0.284 diameter with modest charges of IMR 4831. They get reasonable accuracy and match the 2,300 fps velocity of Spanish military loads so the rifles shoot to the sights.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat12 View Post
    7x57 Mauser or 7.62x51 NATO?
    Sorry forgot the most important info.
    7.62x51

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x25mm View Post
    A matching number Spanish Model 1893 rifle or Model 1916 carbine should be safe to shoot after it is inspected, with several caveats:

    The Spanish Model 1893 Mausers do not have the safety lug introduced in the Mauser Model 1898 rifle action. You must have the headspace of your rifle checked by a competent gunsmith, and both the bolt and the receiver MT (magnetic particle) tested before you shoot it. I have never encountered cracked receivers in original Spanish rifles, but I have seen cracked bolts. The bolt cracking in each case seemed to have occurred after the rifles arrived in America.

    There are several issues with loading and shooting Model 1893's, at least from the American perspective. Most Spanish produced Model 1893's will have 0.287 - 0.288 inch groove diameters, which is significantly larger than the 0.284 inch diameter bullets available to American handloaders. These rifles shoot long 175 grain, 0.284 inch diameter bullets fairly well, but do not shoot lighter, shorter 0.284 inch diameter bullets well at all. Slugging your bore to determine its groove diameter is well worth the effort.

    The Spanish loadings for the 7x57mm cartridge at the time most Model 1893's were made was a relatively low pressure loading, and pressures were further reduced by the oversized groove diameter. Several references I have seen in the Spanish language indicate that the maximum chamber pressures of Spanish military loads were held to 2,500 bar maximum, or about 36,000 cup. American factory 7x57mm cartridges are loaded to a maximum average pressure of 46,000 cup with a probable upper bound of 48,900 cup. Don't use American made 7x57mm factory cartridges in a Model 1893.

    As slower burning powders became available after WW I, the Spanish increased the diameters of the bullets they loaded - but they kept the chamber pressures low. At the same time, they adopted spitzer profile bullets. The standard Spanish load before WW I was a 173 grain round nose cupronickel jacketed bullet of 0.282 inch diameter launched at 2,300 fps.

    I load only unsized, lubed, gas checked, Lyman 287405, 150 grain cast bullets in 7x57mm cartridges to be shot in my Model 1893 and Chilean Model 1895. Lyman no longer makes this mould, so my load will be of little use to you. Friends of mine load 175 grain Remington CoreLokt jacketed bullets of 0.284 diameter with modest charges of IMR 4831. They get reasonable accuracy and match the 2,300 fps velocity of Spanish military loads so the rifles shoot to the sights.
    Thank you,
    keep the pressure low, got it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fw0270 View Post
    Sorry forgot the most important info.
    7.62x51
    You have a Spanish Model FR-7. These were converted from late production Model 1916 carbines in the mid 1950's, not Model 1893 rifles. The Model 1893 rifle was not found suitable for conversion to the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. The FR-7's were developed for the Spanish T-55 and [CETME] CSM-003 low pressure versions of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. These were referred to as the "Cartucho 7.62x51mm NATO-ESPAÑOL". FR-7's were withdrawn from GC and training service when final stocks of the T-55 cartridge were depleted in the mid 1980's. Spain did not officially adopt the full pressure 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge and purge their logistics system until 1988.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x25mm View Post
    You have a Spanish Model FR-7. These were converted from late production Model 1916 carbines in the mid 1950's, not Model 1893 rifles. The Model 1893 rifle was not found suitable for conversion to the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. The FR-7's were developed for the Spanish T-55 and [CETME] CSM-003 low pressure versions of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. These were referred to as the "Cartucho 7.62x51mm NATO-ESPAÑOL". FR-7's were withdrawn from GC and training service when final stocks of the T-55 cartridge were depleted in the mid 1980's. Spain did not officially adopt the full pressure 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge and purge their logistics system until 1988.
    Im not being funny, what information should I take from you post? That I am good to go due to it being a 308 coverstion of the 1916?.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fw0270 View Post
    Im not being funny, what information should I take from you post? That I am good to go due to it being a 308 coverstion of the 1916?.
    FR-7's should not be fired with full power 7.62x51mm NATO or .308 Winchester cartridges. The FR-8, based on the Spanish Model 1943 rifle, is safe to use with full power 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester cartridges.

    American factory .308 Winchester cartridges are loaded to a maximum average pressure of 52,000 cup with a probable upper bound of 55,300 cup. The pressures allowed for 7.62x51mm M80 NATO cartridges are even higher, but stated in piezo units. Don't have any Spanish reference to the maximum pressures allowed for the T-55 and CSM-003 low pressure versions of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge, but it is safe to assume that they are not far off the 36,000 cup maximum pressure of Spanish military 7x57mm cartridges.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x25mm View Post
    FR-7's should not be fired with full power 7.62x51mm NATO or .308 Winchester cartridges. The FR-8, based on the Spanish Model 1943 rifle, is safe to use with full power 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester cartridges.

    American factory .308 Winchester cartridges are loaded to a maximum average pressure of 52,000 cup with a probable upper bound of 55,300 cup. The pressures allowed for 7.62x51mm M80 NATO cartridges are even higher, but stated in piezo units. Don't have any Spanish reference to the maximum pressures allowed for the T-55 and CSM-003 low pressure versions of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge, but it is safe to assume that they are not far off the 36,000 cup maximum pressure of Spanish military 7x57mm cartridges.
    Sounds like I need to keep the cup at least 40 or below, hard to do with a 308 and 168gn bullet.

  10. #10
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    In August 2014, Hogdon issued a bulletin specifically on using reduced loads of H4895 in rifle cartridges:

    https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/upl...ifle-loads.pdf

    HODGDON® H4895® REDUCED RIFLE LOADS
    For Youth Hunting, Informal Target, and Plinking


    Hodgdon Powder Company has found that H4895 can be loaded to reduced levels. H4895 was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. To create reduced loads, the 60% formula is recommended.

    Find the H4895 load in the Reloading Data Center for your caliber and bullet. Take the maximum H4895 charge listed and multiply by 60% (.6). The load may be adjusted up from there to achieve the desired velocity and accuracy. This works only where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use in a cartridge where H4895 is not shown.

    Example: 30-06 cartridge with 125 gr. Sierra SP bullet. Max load shown in the Reloading Data Center with H4895 is 53.7 grains. 53.7 X .6 = 32.2 grains. The shooter begins with this load, and may work up from there to obtain the desired velocity and
    accuracy for his reduced load.

    Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed, 913-362-9455.
    For .308 Winchester with a 168 grain bullet, the 60% charge of H4895 would be 25.8 grains. You will probably find that a 147/150 grain bullet would be better suited to your FR-7. For .308 Winchester with a 150 grain bullet, the 60% charge of H4895 would be 27.4 grains. The Powley Ballistic Computer says both these loads should be in the vicinity of 36,000 cup.
    Last edited by 10x25mm; 10-24-2017 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Include Powley Ballistic Computer information.

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