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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #11
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    Great info 10x25. You're my hero when it comes to a wide range of knowledge. I want to be just like you when I grow up (I'm 67 }. If I remember correctly, some
    M1916 short rifles were converted to 7.62x51 without the FR7 treatment. I've seen arguments that the M93 based actions are strong enough for .308 ammo. But the question is are they safe enough? The gas handling of the M93/95s is poor by the standards of the M98 Mauser. Blown primers or case separation are a much bigger problem.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat12 View Post
    If I remember correctly, some M1916 short rifles were converted to 7.62x51 without the FR7 treatment. I've seen arguments that the M93 based actions are strong enough for .308 ammo. But the question is are they safe enough? The gas handling of the M93/95s is poor by the standards of the M98 Mauser. Blown primers or case separation are a much bigger problem.
    Not aware of any Model 1916's converted to 7.62x51mm without the full FR-7 treatment, but several thousand were just rebarreled to 7.92x40mm (the long, aluminum core bullet CETME experimental cartridge) in 1952 for troop trials while the bugs were still being worked out of the CETME assault rifle design. They probably rebarreled more Model 1916's to 7.62x40mm in 1954 when CETME modified their innovative cartridge to deflect criticism from Geneva Convention signatories. Both of these cartridges were low pressure numbers which relied on extraordinary ballistic coefficients to achieve accuracy and lethality at 1,000 meters.

    The Model 1893 design is sufficient to handle the 7.62x51mm cartridge, but only if steelmaking, forging, and heat treatment were done properly - to design intent. The critical dimensions are more or less identical to the later Model 1898 small ring Mauser action. Most of the Model 1893 and Model 1916 rifles were made before the adoption of modern analytical chemistry or thermocouple pyrometry, so steelmaking, forging, and heat treatment were always dicey. How Springfield and Rock Island got in trouble with 'low number' Model 1903's in 1917.

    Pushing any of the early Spanish bolt guns doesn't make sense when you can purchase a much cheaper Savage Axis or Ruger American which you can push with total confidence. Trying to keep my fellow shooters whole and uninjured .

  3. #13
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    Appears my memory hasn't failed me yet. There are several M1916 short rifles on Gunbroker in 7.62x51 without the FR7 treatment.Found an old discussion of this issue:

    https://www.ar-15.co/threads/29578-S...-investigation

    In spite of this, I'm with 10x25 and would prefer to er on the side of caution.
    Last edited by wombat12; 10-24-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat12 View Post
    Appears my memory hasn't failed me yet. There are several M1916 short rifles on Gunbroker in 7.62x51 without the FR7 treatment.Found an old discussion of this issue:

    https://www.ar-15.co/threads/29578-S...-investigation
    Found a short, five chapter book published on a Spanish web site which details the Model 1916 conversions to 7.62x51mm in its third chapter on page 21. It is written in English. The author refers to these carbines as 'musketoons':

    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/index.asp
    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/chapter1CF.pdf
    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/chapter2CF.pdf
    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/chapter3CF.pdf
    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/chapter4CF.pdf
    http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/chapter5CF.pdf

    THE SPANISH MAUSER FAMILY...A history with multiple sources
    Hector J. Meruelo - Miami, Florida - June 2014


    Page 21

    ....In the 1950s about 55,000 M.1916 Musketoons were converted to 7.62 mm NATO or CETME caliber at the Oviedo Factory (No. OT6276 in my collection) and in the 1960s another 25,000 were so converted for the Guardia Civil, these last ones bearing that Corp’s crossed sword and fasces emblem on the receiver (No. Z915 in my collection, also bearing an issue number 991).....
    Never knew about these before. Meruelo does not comment on the safety of firing these rifles with full power 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. They were converted, however, when the Spanish were issuing the reduced pressure Cartucho 7.62x51mm NATO-Español exclusively.

  5. #15
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    Another informative site:

    http://masterton.us/Spanmauhome
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  6. #16
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    Great info, thanks, guys.

  7. #17
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    you could just rebarrel it the 450 bushmaster and shoot lots of deers and such...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter McNasty View Post
    you could just rebarrel it the 450 bushmaster and shoot lots of deers and such...
    Not worth the expense.
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  9. #19
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    less then 200 bux....If you did it your self

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat12 View Post
    Appears my memory hasn't failed me yet. There are several M1916 short rifles on Gunbroker in 7.62x51 without the FR7 treatment.Found an old discussion of this issue:

    https://www.ar-15.co/threads/29578-S...-investigation

    In spite of this, I'm with 10x25 and would prefer to err on the side of caution.
    I did some research based on everyone's help and wanted you guys to know that mine does not have the FR7 upgrade. Not sure how that affects mine. I am still somewhat confused. I do know my bolt is bent and I have the gas relief hole, which is more of a slot, on the left side of the action forward towards the barrel.
    I do have the 7.62x51

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