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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #11
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    Do you still lose your CPL if your gun is stolen from your vehicle?

    About 15 years ago two buddies lost their CPL permits after their handguns were stolen out of their cars.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DP425 View Post
    Your 650lb "safe", is frankly... not worth much. My cordless angle grinder with a cut-off wheel would prob have me in that sucker, in 10-15min tops, using one battery. Unless you have effectively blocked access to the top, back, and both sides... and bolted it down as well. Don't make too many assumptions.
    my cameras will notify me when your on my property let alone in my house let alone to where my safe is located and my police station is less than a mile away so between the cameras dog and safe and distance from LE i’ve cut that 10-15 minute window down to around 2 minutes and they will not be in my safe in that time frame.
    I get notified the second my cameras pick up motion and If need be LE is notified immediately.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorman View Post
    Do you still lose your CPL if your gun is stolen from your vehicle?

    About 15 years ago two buddies lost their CPL permits after their handguns were stolen out of their cars.
    As far as I know, that's never been a part of the CPL law.

  4. #14
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    As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).

    I knew the rape reference was going to come up in this thread at some point. Bad things happen to good people, but just because they happen doesn't mean that something can't be done to prevent them from happening to others in the future. Just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it won't. We live in a bad world, but rather than crossing your fingers and hoping the bad guy doesn't break into your home or car and stealing your gun that is sitting out in the open, why not take the extra step to secure it?

    As BPS mentioned; I also carry my sidearm on me. In the home it is on or near me when I am awake or sleeping. When I leave the house, it is either on me or it is in the safe. I don't leave it on the night stand and say "OK bad guys, this is MY home and MY gun so don't take it!". Just because you have the right to leave your guns wherever you want when you leave doesn't mean that's a good idea.

    I don't lock up my laptops and TVs because as mentioned before, those won't kill people in the unfortunate event they are stolen. If someone breaks in and they are after stuff to sell then I guess my hope is that they are satisfied with those things and leave my safe alone. Like BPS, I have notifications when movement happens. The cops will be there before they can get into my safe, and most likely my dogs will scare them out of the house with a laptop or two before they have time to angle grind or torch my safe. I have a security system on the house and cameras on my safe, plus the dogs, but there are ways around those things. But just because there are ways around those measures doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least try to protect my belongings.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPS View Post
    my cameras will notify me when your on my property let alone in my house let alone to where my safe is located and my police station is less than a mile away so between the cameras dog and safe and distance from LE i’ve cut that 10-15 minute window down to around 2 minutes and they will not be in my safe in that time frame.
    I get notified the second my cameras pick up motion and If need be LE is notified immediately.
    Okay... that's nice... I didn't reply to you though.

    But you do reinforce my point- don't make too many assumptions about what value a "safe" brings. Your RSC (residential storage container) is a small part of a much larger security plan. The cameras/alarm, dog, and LE are where the true value is at. Chances are, with those at your disposal, your theft protection would be about equal no matter what type of container you keep your firearms in... so long as they aren't in obvious/plain sight.

    The common "gun safe" is little more than a speed-bump on it's own.

  6. #16
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    Yep heavy safe, security cameras and two Aussies do the trick. Those who have been to my shop know my dogs. They are not mean but they are loud! Everyone gets to meet them. LOL

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DP425 View Post
    The common "gun safe" is little more than a speed-bump on it's own.
    Lol, I like that reference.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamero View Post
    As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).

    I knew the rape reference was going to come up in this thread at some point. Bad things happen to good people, but just because they happen doesn't mean that something can't be done to prevent them from happening to others in the future. Just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it won't. We live in a bad world, but rather than crossing your fingers and hoping the bad guy doesn't break into your home or car and stealing your gun that is sitting out in the open, why not take the extra step to secure it?

    As BPS mentioned; I also carry my sidearm on me. In the home it is on or near me when I am awake or sleeping. When I leave the house, it is either on me or it is in the safe. I don't leave it on the night stand and say "OK bad guys, this is MY home and MY gun so don't take it!". Just because you have the right to leave your guns wherever you want when you leave doesn't mean that's a good idea.

    I don't lock up my laptops and TVs because as mentioned before, those won't kill people in the unfortunate event they are stolen. If someone breaks in and they are after stuff to sell then I guess my hope is that they are satisfied with those things and leave my safe alone. Like BPS, I have notifications when movement happens. The cops will be there before they can get into my safe, and most likely my dogs will scare them out of the house with a laptop or two before they have time to angle grind or torch my safe. I have a security system on the house and cameras on my safe, plus the dogs, but there are ways around those things. But just because there are ways around those measures doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least try to protect my belongings.
    What happens when the thief first cuts the power to your home?
    How long does it take for you to find out if it is just a blown fuse, car taking out a utility poll or a flood?
    How long before you notify the police that you have a power outage & then how long before they respond?

    In your case, I would recommend you store your guns in a safe deposit box at one of the larger banks in the biggest city near you.
    You might even hire some armed guards to augment the security at that bank.

    Can't be too careful now can you?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamero View Post
    As I mentioned when I started the thread, I wasn't using this as a thread to laugh at those who have had their property stolen or blame them for the actions of criminals. I'm more curious as to when, how, where, so that I can protect my stuff from being stolen. If safes are that easy to cut into, then perhaps someone can give their recommendation as to a better way to secure them (short of cementing them into a wall).
    To get real protection from a safe, you have to spend a very significant amount of money... or, as you said, cement it into a wall. Consider where the weight of your safe comes in- about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total is in the door alone. Half of the remaining weight comes from the "fireproofing" and interior construction. That leaves you with a steel body that weighs somewhere around a couple hundred pounds- perhaps as little as 100lbs. Spread that out across the full dimensions of the body.

    Most safe bodies are 14 (0.075") or 12ga (0.107") steel. That is thin enough, that you could put a hole in it with a decent ax.

    So your options are:
    -buy a REAL safe... which will likely run you $6,000 or more.
    -set your RSC into a concrete wall (encased)... grossly impractical for all but the smallest units
    -have a vault door on a hardened room... very costly if not done when home is built, using concrete.
    -combine your RSC with other safe-guards such as trained dogs, monitored alarm system, visible and hidden cameras, and doing your best to hide the RSC.
    -just buy a quality firearms insurance policy and continue business as usual.


    It is also important to note that, the fire protection of RSC isn't really something you should be counting on. Not only is the dry-wall used in most "gun safes", a very, very poor method of hardening against fire... most of it also contains oxidizing chemicals that off-gas on their own to some degree, and at a very high rate when exposed to high temps. Long story short, not only is your RSC not very effective at protecting against fire, no matter what the manufacture claims, it has the potential to rust your firearms despite ideal storage conditions (low humidity), and will almost certainly do so should you experience a fire.

    Now consider a good firearms insurance policy such as through Chubb/Eastern Historic, will cover ANY sort of loss, at ANY location... and the premium is usually relatively low. You'll spend much more on monthly service fees with a monitored alarm system. At the end of the day though, you're the only one who can decide what is best for you, your home, family, and firearms collection. I cannot find fault in someone who keeps their $1500 worth of firearms hidden in the closets, under piles of clothes. The cost vs loss comparison for any additional means of protection just doesn't seem to add up as a worthwhile expenditure.



    EDIT: It almost sounds like I'm anti-RSC. That isn't really the case. My current home doesn't have a basement, and it's too small for a RSC, so I keep almost all of my firearms and related items at my father's home... where I have a RSC, bolted to the floor, in a room with a separate ADT alarm circuit and keypad. Inside the RSC, I have several large desiccant containers which I recharge often, and several corrosion inhibiting vapor emitters (they are relatively cheap, and last about 2 years). My next home, which I'll build in 4-5 years, will have a LARGE vault room, and I'll leave my RSC at my dad's place, where it will be virtually empty since his collection is rather small.
    Last edited by DP425; 12-25-2017 at 01:24 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader View Post
    What happens when the thief first cuts the power to your home?
    How long does it take for you to find out if it is just a blown fuse, car taking out a utility poll or a flood?
    How long before you notify the police that you have a power outage & then how long before they respond?

    In your case, I would recommend you store your guns in a safe deposit box at one of the larger banks in the biggest city near you.
    You might even hire some armed guards to augment the security at that bank.

    Can't be too careful now can you?
    Soooo you're saying that because there is no way to 100% secure my guns short of this stellar advice that I should just not even try at all?

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