Hall Carbine Harpers Ferry Armory 1841

[Ben_I]

I have this rifle, which I believe to be a Hall-North series rifle. However, there are some differences that have me baffled. First off, the breech lever is on the bottom not the side. It is Carbine length, with a shorter stock than what I've found in other pictures. The marking on top of the breech block say "H.Ferry US 1841"
I've found others online, but mine appears to have a shorter barrel, and the under lever instead of side lever. It is also rifled, where others were smooth bore. Any ideas as to what model it is?

https://imgur.com/a/qTy4u

[10x25mm]

You have either a Model 1842 carbine or a cut down Model 1819 rifle. A fair number of the rifles were cut down by the CSA after they seized Harper's Ferry.

[Ben_I]

It was handed down to my grandmother by her father, who lived in Florida his whole life. I like the idea of the CSA cut down, that makes a lot of sense. I found a listing for one that looks the same, with the same markings, just a full rifle length rather than the cut down carbine length like mine.
https://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-.../198/lot/72782
Note the "fishtail" lever underneath in front of the trigger guard. The 1819 had a different lever underneath, and the 1842 had a side lever it looks like in pictures I've seen.

[Roundballer]

What you have there is in fact a Harpers Ferry Hall 1841 model rifle. Don't confuse it the 1841 "Mississippi" which was, very much more prevalent.

First, we need to look a little at the predecessor. The 1819 Hall model, a picture and some info can be found on a pretty well written "wiki" entry: wiki M1819 Hall rifle.

Second, as far as I know, they have always had the breach release lever on the front of the trigger guard. There may be some confusion with some rifles (Springfield's mostly) that got converted to a "trapdoor" configuration when the army switched to fixed ammunition.

Third, most of these were rifled, but they also had a peculiar feature, most of them had a "back bore" at the muzzle and they would look like they were smooth bore. That does not mean that they didn't make some of them as smooth bore, they did. According to most sources, they were barreled with what would be considered a "short" barrel. The rifles had about a 32" barrel and the carbine was about 22". They also produced them in 52 AND 69 cal. I believe that the 69 cal was the smooth bore (approximately 16ga).

Here is an example of one that was sold for $4500: http://www.horsesoldier.com/products...longarms/13618. That is what yours originally looked like.

What happens with many of these older guns is that they continue to be used in the civilian market after being retired from service. It is not uncommon for stocks to be just cut down if they become damaged. It is also not uncommon for them to have the rifling bored out to turn them into shotguns, which would be more useful for hunting at that time than a large bore rifle. And as it even happens now, a lot of these got converted step by step as the army updated their armories. The 1840s period saw a lot of turn around in both US armories.

Just a history note: This is the rifle that replaced the 1803 Harpers Ferry, which was the FIRST rifle commissioned and supplied to the US troops. The 1803 was a half-stocked rifle of 54 cal and a flintlock.

[Ben_I]

Thanks for the history lesson! What a gorgeous example that you found. Yes, mine has the exact markings on top of the breech. It must be the 52 caliber because it is rifled. Its definitely the carbine version as well. It's a shame the stock was cut down and it's in such poor condition. My grandmother left it in a closet in her Ft. Lauderdale home for easily 20 years and I don't even know when her father died. The humidity really got to it.
It's pretty neat that the whole breech block and trigger mechanism is detachable from the gun and could function as a rudimentary pocket pistol. All of the internal parts still function perfectly.