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  1. #1
    MGO Member SpartyME's Avatar
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    Franklin Armory Reformation - Non-NFA 11.5” AR w/ stock - SHOT 2018

    Not a damn clue where they found a loophole in the NFA’s verbiage but color me intrigued! Can’t wait to hear the details at SHOT.

    https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2018...-atf-approval/

    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

  2. #2
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    Looks like a couple ideas on how they got this through...

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    One has to do with the definition of a firearm under the NFA (if it doesn't meet this definition, it wouldn't fall under the NFA, there by making any sub-category definitions irrelevant).
    The statute is as follows:
    "The term "firearm" means a shotgun or rifle having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length, or any other weapon, except a pistol or revolver, from which a shot is discharged by an explosive if such weapon is capable of being concealed on the person, or a machine gun, and includes a muffler or silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within the foregoing definition."
    The argument goes, 11.5" barreled AR is not capable of being concealed on your person, without going to extreme lengths, which would also make the vast majority of rifles concealable. For example... Full length trench coat could conceal an 11.5" AR... But it would also easily conceal a 20" barreled AR. On the flip side, a standard, hip-length coat would not be able to conceal an 11.5" AR with stock... It would however, conceal a 4.5" barreled Sig MPX with collapsable stock.


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    Another idea looks at the criminal code definition of an SBR.
    That reads as follows:
    "The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."
    This one is a lot more convoluted to envision; hopefully I do a decent job explaining the theory...

    Lets break this down; the argument is that the definition is a two part definition and you have to examine each part independently and see which category it best falls into. Theory goes, if you take a standard Title 1 (Non-NFA), 16" rifle, and trim the barrel back to 11.5", it is clearly no longer a rifle as per Title I rifle definition, so part one isn't a very good fit. Move on to part two, which has two requirements itself; is a weapon, made from a rifle? Yes, so this is likely the part of the definition that needs to be applied... Does it measure less than 26"? No, it does not... Thus, not an SBR.

    This essentially hinges on the notion that the first part doesn't apply if the weapon is made from a title I rifle. In order for the first part to apply, the weapon in question would have to be originally built as something OTHER than a title I rifle. This does make a bit of sense; there isn't any reason to specifically address over-all length separately, in reference to modifying a title I rifle unless they intended to permit people to trim back the barrel of their rifle, so long as the OAL didn't drop below 26". Otherwise, they could have simply stated "A short barreled rifle means, any rifle having a barrel less than 16", or less than 26" in length" There is simply no reason to add in the part about modifying a rifle, if the intent is, SBR= Barrel < 16" or OAL < 26".


    Now, one last point on this theory... Take a look at the name they picked... How are they intending you to read that? It reads to me, as a hint to the loop-hole they found... They took a title I rifle and reformed it into a title 1 "firearm". Using Part two of the SBR definition to EXCLUDE the 16" barrel issue, and only have to work with the 26" OAL issue. Which, it just so happens, the ATF requires OAL to be measured with stock fully extended on Form 1 and Form 4 submittals.

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    And there is one last thought on this related to the SBR definition. Some are reading it as the "and" requires BOTH a barrel less than 16", and an OAL under 26". This seems to be a bit less likely to hold water as the second part specifically references weapons made from rifles. You cannot just leave that part out. You MUST factor it in. So if both parts have to apply together, there would be no such thing as a "factory" SBR. It would ONLY be able to exist as a modification of a standard Title I Rifle. Plus, it just doesn't read as though it's two requirements that are mutually inclusive.

  3. #3
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    The NFA language uses the term "pull" regarding firing a single shot.

    The binary and Fostech Echo fire two shots per "pull" but of shot per actuation of the trigger.

    The binary trigger and 26" OAL make it a "firearm" because it does not qualify to be a "firearm made from a rifle"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsie View Post
    The NFA language uses the term "pull" regarding firing a single shot.

    The binary and Fostech Echo fire two shots per "pull" but of shot per actuation of the trigger.

    The binary trigger and 26" OAL make it a "firearm" because it does not qualify to be a "firearm made from a rifle"
    It certainly could be a firearm made from a rifle. All they would have to do is build it up, mount a rifle upper on it, record it as produced as a rifle, then swap on the 11.5" upper.

    I'm not buying the trigger thing. It still meets the definition, which is one shot per pull of the trigger. It fires one shot per pull. What happens upon release, is not mentioned anywhere.

    I mean, sure... they could make just about any argument they want. But I don't think the trigger idea is at all persuasive.

  5. #5
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    That's all pretty confusing... but if they start by first assembling the guns as "firearms" you can't consider the end product to be made from "rifles" and thus not "short barreled rifles"... I'm not sure how adding the stock doesn't qualify as remade/redesigned to be fired from the shoulder. They must have some creative lawyers.
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  6. #6
    Legal Forum Contributor / Super Moderator esq_stu's Avatar
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    Just a thought following up on Corpsie and DrScary:

    What if ATF couldn't call the Franklin rifle a rifle? Then it would not be an NFA firearm.

    And what if a rifle with a binary trigger could no longer be called a rifle for purposes of the NFA?

    27 CFR 479.11 - Meaning of terms
    ***
    Firearm.
    (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (c) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.
    ***
    Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

    I'm kind of thinking it's time to buy a binary trigger before they get sold out. If I'm wrong I'll have a binary trigger to put in my AR 11.5" pistol. If I'm right I'll have an 11.5 inch rifle that is not an SBR. I have not been able to find the ATF letter about this. I could be totally wrong. I have no idea whether this is their way of looking at it or not. And that is totally OK.

    The Franklin trigger is 10% off at Optics Planet.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by esq_stu View Post
    I'm kind of thinking it's time to buy a binary trigger before they get sold out. If I'm wrong I'll have a binary trigger to put in my AR 11.5" pistol. If I'm right I'll have an 11.5 inch rifle that is not an SBR. I have not been able to find the ATF letter about this. I could be totally wrong. I have no idea whether this is their way of looking at it or not. And that is totally OK.

    The Franklin trigger is 10% off at Optics Planet.
    You know, with the markup on retail things... You're probably still better off, financially, registering an SBR for in-state use and making an AR pistol for cross-state use. That wil likely continue to get around many more state/local laws than this thing.
    The funny part is that with all these hairline distinctions between firearm/pistol/rifle/aow/sbr, the ATF is going to have a very hard time keeping track of what's what when they try to prosecute somebody. not that they care, they'll just prosecute.
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  8. #8
    Legal Forum Contributor / Super Moderator esq_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrScaryGuy View Post
    You know, with the markup on retail things... You're probably still better off, financially, registering an SBR for in-state use and making an AR pistol for cross-state use. That wil likely continue to get around many more state/local laws than this thing.
    The funny part is that with all these hairline distinctions between firearm/pistol/rifle/aow/sbr, the ATF is going to have a very hard time keeping track of what's what when they try to prosecute somebody. not that they care, they'll just prosecute.
    You maybe right, but since the state definition of "rifle" also refers to a single pull of the trigger for single projectile and a state SBR is made from a rifle, i'm feeling better and better about my interpretation. So we are talking $200 for a tax stamp verses about $400 for the Franklin binary trigger with no Federal paper trail.

    But hey all you ATF guys reading this, I'm just joking and I can't really make head nor tail of laws and rules, and anyways it's all a theory and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But it is definitely a fun thought.
    All the best,

    --esq_stu
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    NRA Certified Instructor: Basic Pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home


    The above comments are not intended to be and do not constitute legal advice to anyone.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by esq_stu View Post
    You maybe right, but since the state definition of "rifle" also refers to a single pull of the trigger for single projectile and a state SBR is made from a rifle, i'm feeling better and better about my interpretation. So we are talking $200 for a tax stamp verses about $400 for the Franklin binary trigger with no Federal paper trail.

    But hey all you ATF guys reading this, I'm just joking and I can't really make head nor tail of laws and rules, and anyways it's all a theory and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But it is definitely a fun thought.
    How much more is the gun itself - built, sold, and shipped from franklin?
    Their cheapest rifle is about $1100. I imagine this "reformation" doodad isn't going to be cheaper than building an SBR with tax stamp. And the other side is that an SBR with tax stamp isn't quite as likely to suffer from a changing "interpretation", like a shoelace, a DIAS, a brace, etc.
    DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. The opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, DrScaryGuy. They do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of MGO, its board of directors, or its members.

  10. #10
    MGO Member Scandiacus's Avatar
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    OK, when a rifle has a telescoping stock, it's OAL is measured with the stock fully extended for NFA purposes, right? What if this rifle has a permanently affixed, telescoping muzzle device which, when fully extended, renders the "barrel" over 16" in length? I don't know if the barrel length measurement could or would be treated the same as the stock, but it would be interesting.

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