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Firearms Legal Protection

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  1. #11
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    The important takeaways on safes is, any safe is typically better than no safe, a hidden safe is several times better than most well made safes, and do not be fooled by marketing tomfoolery.

    For example UL listings for safes are typically only applicable to the electrical components of digital lock mechanisms, or plugs for safe driers/lighting etc. (Buttons on electronic safes are only warrantied for typically two years as the contacts wear out and your safe becomes inaccessible to you the owner) Safe manufacturers usually give their own very ambiguous ratings for fire protection that are typically unrealistic, and they do their own testing for fire ratings because they cannot pass (nor will they pay for) UL ratings for fire protection, and for many of the major manufacturers found that they could sell a door with thinner steel rolled around what is essentially concrete board that goes under your tiles, make the door thicker with concrete, call the whole thing composite and charge more for it than actually building a decent secure door.

    I am not trying to say the whole go big or go home buy a 9934938297$ safe, I just don't want you to be completely misled by marketing, the problem is you cannot just ask the kid behind the counter or in another aisle stocking shelves, because honestly, no one in the store knows whats inside a product, and manufactures are purposefully misleading to get you to buy their most expensive big vault super expensive safe.

    What is more likely to happen than getting robbed is have a fire, I'd personally rate having fire prevention/protection well above someone finding a safe and entering it to take its contents, aside from that, neighbors and friends with loose lips sink ships? or houses, or vacations, but you get what I mean, neighbors that know your patterns may not necessarily have any ill will towards you and mention in the workplace overheard by another that you're on vacation for 5 days. (hell all they really need to know is no one will be home for a day) it is more important for you to have operational security than a safe that meets a california rating, for 5minutes against handtools.

    That all being said http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/article...ect-your-guns/ has some interesting things to read, has broken a lot of safes to show pictures of how they are made, and has reviews and blogs of different ways to protect a safe against fire, being found, and forced entry. If nothing else its a very interesting read to learn about how safes are made and sometimes how well they are or are not made, and also how to find alternatives to the traditional gun safe.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeySRT View Post
    After researching what I hope to be the last safe I ever buy, just about every gun "safe" out there is pretty much just for fire protection. A UL-RSC certification only requires a safe to resist entry from hand tools for 5 minutes. Pretty pathetic.

    This has caused me to look into safes that have at least a TL-15 rating. So far for price and size, this safe is winning: https://www.brownsafe.com/hd-safes/hd7256.html

    Even still, the double door model with the options I'd like exceeds $8K.

    That being said, with the combination of a home alarm system, living in a low crime area, having the safe bolted down in a walk-out basement, what are your opinions?
    You could build a bare bones safe room in your basement for a lot less than $8K.

  3. #13
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    Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

    https://www.stack-on.com/product/tot...e-24-gun-safe/

  4. #14
    MGO Member Slossar1004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

    https://www.stack-on.com/product/tot...e-24-gun-safe/
    I don’t have an opinion on this brand or model, but I think many of the mass produced safes are manufactured by the same companies and branded. Similar to televisions that may be branded Sony but have parts manufactured by Samsung etc.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Any opinions on a Stack-On Total Defense 24? Gander has them for $700.

    https://www.stack-on.com/product/tot...e-24-gun-safe/

    I think this kind of safe is all most people will ever need. If in the exponentially unlikely event that you're broken into by a sawzall wielding intruder, you've made other mistakes.


    Maybe someone could post some statistics that show how often actual break-ins occur where safes are compromised by intruders, maybe that could put this discussion in perspective for the readers of this thread.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musta Demoni View Post
    I think this kind of safe is all most people will ever need. If in the exponentially unlikely event that you're broken into by a sawzall wielding intruder, you've made other mistakes.


    Maybe someone could post some statistics that show how often actual break-ins occur where safes are compromised by intruders, maybe that could put this discussion in perspective for the readers of this thread.
    Good idea. There's a website called crime map that if they have access to local PD reports, shows crime in the area. I think this will vary differently by area, obviously. The other thing too is I see people posting pictures of their safe, the inside of their safe, etc. on social media. So dumb. I share a picture here and there of my guns, but not all that I own or where they are stored, etc.

    I do want to get something above a typical RSC, but not to the level of a TL-15. With a home alarm system, good placement of the safe in the home, the safe being bolted down, and accessibility to it limited should be all that's needed.

  7. #17
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    The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.

  8. #18
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    A large part of a safes price, depends on the fire rating.
    Anyone who is handy, can build a closet around the safe(s) and cover it with double 5/8ths drywall, even the door and ceiling.
    Also, in basements, putting them on a base of concrete blocks, may keep them high enough to prevent water damage from putting the fire out.
    If you want to go all the way, a fire sprinkler head, plumbed to your water supply (with an inline shut off) can be mounted over the closet. The shut off is for when you accidentally break that little tube on the bottom of the sprinkler head.
    All of this can be done much cheaper the a top shelf fire protected safe.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DogStar View Post
    The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.
    I was not aware he broke into the safe. I thought all this time that he had access, and I've been very critical of his mom since then, for not securing the gun. Oops. She at least made an effort to secure the gun.
    The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.”

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DogStar View Post
    The web is your friend. Look around on it for your safe. The Sandy Hook kid broke into a Stack On product after killing his mother and learned how to do so on the web. Make sure you have something that isnt trivial to break into.
    I have one there is not much too it, its a keep hands off lox box with a key on it, more than it is a "safe". A crow bar I imagne could get you in 1 minute flat.

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